wtf is up with you people ?
yeah it was to be expected, but why do you people ''don't care'' ?
he's harboring a pretty shitty world view and yet you excuse him because of ''lol he's pope''
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;43533923]Man the pope defense force are working overdrive in this thread.
"Ok he's still as backwards as all the other popes but he got rid of the chair and drives a normal car I love him best pope ever!!!!"[/QUOTE]
That's hilariously far from what people actually think about him.
This pope has a much better stance on a lot of things than the people before him, sure he might share most of his predecessors views on things, but he's being way more "eh let people do what they want" about it than the people before him.
However it does seem like lots of people in this thread are going "why are everyone upset/surprised" when most people aren't upset/surprised. Which is pretty dumb.
And while I am very much pro-choice, there's little doubt that he definitely has a (at least a slight) point, abortion isn't something that should be taken lightly.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;43533923]Man the pope defense force are working overdrive in this thread.
"Ok he's still as backwards as all the other popes but he got rid of the chair and drives a normal car I love him best pope ever!!!!"[/QUOTE]
Yeah i gotta be honest, i'm not really that sure about the poop anymore.
Hes taken some good steps in the right direction, but that doesn't mean the catholic church is "there" yet, it doesn't mean anything has changed.
and lets be honest, "High Pope Palpatine: protector of child rapists- isn't exactly a hard act to follow when it comes to PR image.
There's a lot of good he's doing but no one can expect him to just flip the Catholic Church around. He still is a step in the right direction though for sure.
[QUOTE=Mechanical43;43533980]he's harboring a pretty shitty world view and yet you excuse him because of ''lol he's pope''[/QUOTE]
I think people are excusing him because they see a potential for progress, and that is something we should be happy for. Yeah he has some disgustingly terrible views, I would never disagree, but at least he's a sort of sign that things are changing, albeit slowly.
I don't think attacking him at every opportunity is going to help, that will only serve to alienate his supporters instead of convince them to listen to your arguments.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;43531764]First up, Nobody uses Abortion as a contraceptive, abortions are painful and in some cases even very expensive.
Secondly, whats wrong with having sex and how does it make you stupid?[/QUOTE]
He's clearly refering to the (imaginary?) group of people that eschew safe sex because they can fix shit after the fact. Which you already addressed.
If you managed to infer that sex was a bad thing or that it makes you stupid, you were mistaken.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43532200]Welcome to Utah, and some other areas. Under the GW Bush era, it was made mandatory if schools/districts wanted to receive federal funding. That's been rescinded (I think?) but some states were doing it anyway.
Kids who've learned everything they know from sneaking onto Internet porn are out there and fucking. And here we are with a teen pregnancy problem.[/QUOTE]
Last I heard, New Mexico (my state) was the highest in the nation for teen pregnancy. Which is sad to think considering it only has a population of roughly 2 million total, with most of those people living in the Santa Fe/Albuquerque regions and the rest scattered throughout in little podunk towns. Possibly related, the Wal-Mart here decided to lock all the condoms up behind a glass display. Why? It's obvious people aren't STEALING them, or if they are they're not USING them.
[editline]14th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;43534111]If we didnt have the option and people didnt want a baby, there are alternative ways to do it.
If someone really wants to terminate a pregnancy, they'll find a way legal/ilegally, right/wrong.
Better to have certified and maintained clinics than backstreet abortionists. It doesn't matter what people think, regulated clinics is the safer and better choice.
After abortion was legalized in the 80sish, the 90s had a severe decrease in crime rates in poor neighborhoods, too. Having unwanted children didnt bode well for the poor neighborhoods.[/QUOTE]
That list bit is a part I have trouble understanding.
People (in this case poor people) can't afford contraceptives, wether they be pills, condoms, whatever, but they can afford an abortion. Just seems strange to me.
[QUOTE=mchapra;43532011]I don't mind his stance, He is catholic after all.
Really the rest of his actions have made him a relatively better person than his predecessors.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, it's not very difficult to be a relatively better person than his predecessors.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;43532217]You are massively over simplifying the issue. There is far more to it than "lol cant be bothered to dig up a condom but i want teh d"-
For example, My girlfriend is allergic to a chemical used in spermicide, meaning even latex-free condoms will give her a nasty and painful reaction, so she uses the pill instead, easy right?.
Now take into consideration some peoples backwards views on sex, and how living in a household that subscribes to these particular views might effect a young woman's chances of getting hold of contraceptives, now its suddenly not so easy.
Now take into consideration many teens have very little grasp on how sex actually works because the sex-ed they got in school was literally "sex is a very naughty thing that makes god cry big angry tears and you will never speak of this again until u get married have- fun kids".
there are hundreds of different unfortunate situations and scenarios of varying severity that could put someone at increased risk of an unwanted pregnancy, and its not fair to force them to commit to a lifestyle they don't want or literally cannot make work financially because its easier to assume they were just a lazy skank who couldn't wait for a rubber.[/QUOTE]
But any female 12 and over can obtain contraceptives and family planning support from their school, no questions asked. I'm not sure what the issue is here.
[QUOTE=Aj;43531261]All you tossers who suddenly 'hate' him because he is against abortions are just as stupid as the people who go out having sex purely because there's emergency pills and abortions available.[/QUOTE]
Wait, besides not being the most effective birth control, what's wrong with emergency contraception pills? They're not remotely the same as abortion.
pope fraaaaaaaank
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;43532200]Welcome to Utah, and some other areas. Under the GW Bush era, it was made mandatory if schools/districts wanted to receive federal funding. That's been rescinded (I think?) but some states were doing it anyway.
Kids who've learned everything they know from sneaking onto Internet porn are out there and fucking. And here we are with a teen pregnancy problem.[/QUOTE]
actually to be fair teen pregnancy has dropped significantly from the 90s, but the "my generation is best" folk propagate the myth that it's always getting worse. Then the media capitalizes on that, spreading the myth further, and the spiral continues. Actually one of the worst periods for teen pregnancy was the 50s thanks to the automobile, and then the 60s because, well, yeah.
[url]http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/tgr/05/1/gr050107.html[/url]
[QUOTE] There just shouldn't be a pro-life/pro-choice debate. Abortion should be a standard medical procedure carried out between a pregnant woman and her doctor. It's really that simple. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, fuck all those who want to penalize the murder of animals. Let the animals and butchers sort it out between them.
Now, what I said is pretty dumb. What you have said is also dumb. Because it ignores the fact that there are many people who don't think the same way as you do and assign an untouchable moral value to human life. The same way some people think that animals shouldnt be killed because they feel pain and should be given rights.
Notice I said human life. Surely some smart ass will quote me and commit the mistake of saying "LOL YOUR DUMB I JACKED OFF AND THAT WAS HUMAN LIFE OMG IM A MURDERER" but apart from getting a lot of zings from other smart ass people we have to understand it is not that simple.
Because we're adopting a certain position that has other implications.
Is human life, just for being human life, a sacred thing?
Should we just allow people to do what they want with their bodies? (Think what economical implications this might have)
If human life is not sacred and shouldn't be protected for being human life, at which point it deserves being protected?
Whether or not he may be saying this to "pacify" the clergy I just find it weird a bunch of supposed virgins are telling people what/not to do, and as the leader of a nation state he should be more professional and not have this sort of influence on people in other countries' personal lives like that
he's not really a leader of a nation state unless you put like 3 asterisks after it. he's the leader of a church first and foremost.
Also, literally [I]all he said[/I] was that abortion sucks.
He gave no concrete political position either way, all he said was that abortion was a horrific practice, which it is.
The fuck did you expect him to say, "Yay abortion!"??
Abortion [I]does[/I] suck. Its unfortunate status as a "necessary evil" sucks. I wish we didn't need them, but sometimes we do because sometimes there is more going on than just "susan didn't feel like using a condom but kids are such a bother"
There really isn't anything more to argue here, Pope hates abortion, thats all the article said, and thats probably all he's [I]going[/I] to say.
This thread makes me so fucking happy I don't live in a place where something like "pro-life" can be forced on me as if it were law.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43536051]Also, literally [I]all he said[/I] was that abortion sucks.
He gave no concrete political position either way, all he said was that abortion was a horrific practice, which it is.
The fuck did you expect him to say, "Yay abortion!"??
Abortion [I]does[/I] suck. Its unfortunate status as a "necessary evil" sucks. I wish we didn't need them, but sometimes we do because sometimes there is more going on than just "susan didn't feel like using a condom but kids are such a bother"
There really isn't anything more to argue here, Pope hates abortion, thats all the article said, and thats probably all he's [I]going[/I] to say.[/QUOTE]
How much do you know Francis? Do you know the C.Church?
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;43536065]How much do you know Francis? Do you know the C.Church?[/QUOTE]
...what are you even getting at here?
People tend to forget that part of being Pope is being a champion for Catholic values and doctrine.
As some chucklefuck catholic "news" radio host put it, the media portrays Pope Francis as a progressive, revolutionary leader of the church that is going to lead the church to a more modern standpoint. But that is rather far from the truth. The forgoing of some of the traditional papal amenities was simply a personal choice for Pope Francis i.e., he didn't want to reside in the papal apartments not because it was too lavish, but rather because of the solitary nature of the residence.
Regardless of what people say or believe of him, it is still his job to encourage and enact catholic values and doctrine.
In other words, Pope Francis is just another catholic with a funny hat and a certain shine to the media.
Well I don't agree with him but he's still a nice pope so far.
Hey Catholic Church, you know what's a lot less ethically dubious than abortion?
Wearing fucking condoms.
[QUOTE=-xxsetshotxx-;43538081]People tend to forget that part of being Pope is being a champion for Catholic values and doctrine.
As some chucklefuck catholic "news" radio host put it, the media portrays Pope Francis as a progressive, revolutionary leader of the church that is going to lead the church to a more modern standpoint. But that is rather far from the truth. The forgoing of some of the traditional papal amenities was simply a personal choice for Pope Francis i.e., he didn't want to reside in the papal apartments not because it was too lavish, but rather because of the solitary nature of the residence.
Regardless of what people say or believe of him, it is still his job to [B]encourage and enact catholic values and doctrine[/B].
In other words, Pope Francis is just another catholic with a funny hat and a certain shine to the media.[/QUOTE]
you see, this is why he is a better pope than other options would be, he is actually criticizing the situation the poor are with greater emphasis(part of catholic values, no matter how many would love for it not to be), he is also criticizing complete bullshit like the prosperity gospel.
We live in an era where blaming poverty on the poors is something that is increasing in popularity, the mere fact he is going against said current, instead of just criticizing gays/abortions/feminism ad nauseum(like most of the other options certainly would), makes him a good pope(under realistic expectations).
so no, he is not just another catholic with a funny hat.
"BAH BAH BAH! I'm entitled to have sex without consequences!!!"
It's basic common sense that the unborn baby is a human being, and I'm not even a christian/catholic. But people have in these past decades developed a paradigm that says they are somehow entitled to have unlimited sex, that the world owes it to them somehow. people believe they have a right to have sex without consequences, but certain actions DO have their consequences. It just so happens sex might lead to an unwanted pregnancy. Therefore abortionists have to dehumanise the unborn child in order to be secure in their "harmless casual sex" -doctrine. If you want to minimise the risk, use protection. If you want to eliminate the risk altogether, then (GASP) don't have sex at all! You are not entitled to sex.
I'm atheist, and while I'm pro-choice, abortion is an uncomfortable topic for me. To me, a fetus is a child. We can babble on all day about what is and isn't a human being and that horse shit, but since that's all just opinions and hearsay, I'd rather not debate about it. The death a child is just a difficult thing for me to support. I can completely understand peoples discomfort at the topic, but it's really not much of their damn business unless they are a mother-to-be.
I can see why a person would see an abortion as murder. Whether or not its a human life really depends on opinions. I don't really fault anybody for where they stand on the issue.
I think the real problem is when its banned for rape cases and incest cases. This church also mislead millions of people in the third world about contraceptives and safe sex.
[QUOTE=juhana;43542782]"BAH BAH BAH! I'm entitled to have sex without consequences!!!"
It's basic common sense that the unborn baby is a human being, and I'm not even a christian/catholic. But people have in these past decades developed a paradigm that says they are somehow entitled to have unlimited sex, that the world owes it to them somehow. people believe they have a right to have sex without consequences, but certain actions DO have their consequences. It just so happens sex might lead to an unwanted pregnancy. Therefore abortionists have to dehumanise the unborn child in order to be secure in their "harmless casual sex" -doctrine. If you want to minimise the risk, use protection. If you want to eliminate the risk altogether, then (GASP) don't have sex at all! You are not entitled to sex.[/QUOTE]
I find it funny that the side that claims to be supporting the "baby's rights" calls a baby a consequence.
How come he didn't mention the gigantic number of children who are waiting to be adopted all across the world?
Or is that what ""Unfortunately, what is thrown away is not only food and dispensable objects, but often human beings themselves, who are discarded as unnecessary."" was referring to?
Also what people need to realize is that just because you don't agree with abortion, doesn't mean it's going to disappear. There have been countless reports that indicate making abortion illegal does not stop it from happening entirely, it just stops SAFE procedures from happening. You want unwanted pregnancy to stop? Instead of telling people to stop having sex, go out there and advocate safe sex, free birth control and education.
[QUOTE=juhana;43542782]"BAH BAH BAH! I'm entitled to have sex without consequences!!!"[/QUOTE]
Well, why not? what exactly is so wrong with the idea of having sex and not having to worry about having babies if you don't want to have one?
[QUOTE=juhana;43542782]It's basic common sense that the unborn baby is a human being[/QUOTE]
It's [i] Your Opinion [/i] that an undeveloped fetus counts as a human being, some people would also argue that using a condom is murder, as you prevent conception via stopping sperm from finding the egg, therefore "ending the life that could have been~"-
you really cant start judging where life starts from wishy-washy opinions and feelgood phrases, because those ideas are personal to you, whats to stop someone deciding that every missed opportunity for sex was ending a possible life?.
[QUOTE=juhana;43542782] If you want to eliminate the risk altogether, then (GASP) don't have sex at all! You are not entitled to sex.[/QUOTE]
Have you ever actually been in a relationship before?.
sex is probably the most natural thing a couple could do together, and if you are with someone you love- no matter how high or low their drive for it, or your drive for it- its going to happen eventually.
this isn't about being [b]entitled[/b] to sex like some libido-toddler who throws toys about if they don't get laid for free, its about recognizing that sex does happen, and no amount of bullshit abstinence propaganda is going to change our natural instincts.
Sex is a wholly positive life experience, it brings you closer to the person you love, has numerous benefits to health , self confidence, and general happiness.
telling people to simply avoid such an awesome part of life because of the risk of pregnancy is absolutely ridiculous, and not a solution in the slightest, we have many forms of contraception available to us, and use of these should be MASSIVELY encouraged, but if all doesn't work out, and someone falls pregnant when they cant cope with/dont want to have a child, there Needs to be a way out for them, because their REAL lives come before some strange idea of where life starts that they might not even hold themselves.
Yes there are risks, and people need to be educated about them, and helped to take steps to minimize them, but sex and abortion are both not going to stop just because you don't like them.
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