Valve pulls "Kill the Faggot" from Steam Greenlight - Polidicks

[QUOTE=/dev/sda1;47660951]kill all jews its ok because being jewish is a choice[/QUOTE] Except Jewish people (as an ethnic group and a religious group and every shade in-between) have been fucked over for like literally thousands of years, whereas hipsters have, well. Not. So that's not really applicable.

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;47660969]Except Jewish people (as an ethnic group and a religious group and every shade in-between) have been fucked over for like literally thousands of years, whereas hipsters have, well. Not. So that's not really applicable.[/QUOTE] How is that even an argument? Hate speech towards anyone is despicable so why are you trying to say it only is hate speech when the bully uses pretexts that are commonly used? Why should some people be less deserving of protection because they're not the right race? [editline]5th May 2015[/editline] Say what if all of a sudden people started calling for the death of white people. Would it not be hate speech?

[QUOTE=_Axel;47660880] So calling for the death of, say, communists like I'm sure has happened during the cold war isn't hate speech because they themselves chose their political stance?[/QUOTE] It's wrong, but I wouldn't necessarily class it under hate speech because it is an ideology rather than something people cannot control such as race or sexual orientation.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47660997]How is that even an argument? Hate speech towards anyone is despicable so why are you trying to say it only is hate speech when the bully uses pretexts that are commonly used? Why should some people be less deserving of protection because they're not the right race?[/QUOTE] I could not ever begin to equivocate the flaming of hipsters to the oppression and marginalization of an entire people. Hipsters cannot be cohesively grouped or be called a community, either - being a hipster, or embracing "hipsterism" is so nebulous, and they certainly don't all stand under the same banner, since there is no banner for hipsters to stand under. Because they are not a group. Just a subset of people in society with a certain loose collection of traits. [QUOTE=_Axel;47660997] Say what if all of a sudden people started calling for the death of white people. Would it not be hate speech?[/QUOTE] It would most definitely be hate speech. But there would be more going on around that, such as the relative privilege of white people as a whole - of course, being white and in poverty, I can tell you not all white people are rich and have all their problems solved - and the fact that, like... nobody's really tried to rally people for the extinction of white people. In all honesty, I would treat it as a kneejerk reaction against mistreatment of non-white people by whites. Not the right thing to do to combat racism or anything, but if there was no actual effort to propagate the ideology across society and people didn't start actually following what was said, there would really not be much harm done from it. Of course, it is hate speech. But you have to see everything around it that shapes and shades it.

[QUOTE=dedo678;47659108]This is very clearly a satirical troll game that was made in 2 hours.[/QUOTE] Stop giving this "game" more credit than it deserves. It isn't satire. Satire is the act of satirizing something. I still don't know what this is satirizing and I never will, because the thing it's making fun of doesn't exist. It's bigoted nonsense for the sake of being bigoted nonsense.

[QUOTE=Levithan;47660874]isn't that the game that has at least one neo-nazi as a developer?[/QUOTE] That's purely a rumour started by people who wanted to get Hatred pulled. The team behind Hatred is a regular group of people, not a bunch of psychos endorsing mass murder

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;47661039]I could not ever begin to equivocate the flaming of hipsters to the oppression and marginalization of an entire people. Hipsters cannot be cohesively grouped or be called a community, either - being a hipster, or embracing "hipsterism" is so nebulous, and they certainly don't all stand under the same banner, since there is no banner for hipsters to stand under. Because they are not a group. Just a subset of people in society with a certain loose collection of traits.[/QUOTE] And why does it matter what reason people use to discriminate against them? Whether it's nebulous doesn't matter, it's usually all the same for the bullies who usually see them as stereotypical individuals. In GTA V it isn't about 'flaming hipsters', it's about downright fucking killing them. Let me remind you the context. In both games you kill innocent people who haven't done anything to deserve it. Yet in one it's considered fine yet in the other people think the author is committing hate speech. For starters things that are depicted in a work of fiction shouldn't be considered as aligning with the author's beliefs. And then there's the hypocrisy of being completely fine with virtual murder, but saying the developers are monsters if it's restricted to certain demographics. It's like if you were watching a movie and the main villain starts massacring black people, and you're disgusted by his apparent racism, only to be relieved when you see he starts massacring people indiscriminately. It's fucking stupid and incoherent.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661124]And why does it matter what reason people use to discriminate against them? Whether it's nebulous doesn't matter, it's usually all the same for the bullies who usually see them as stereotypical individuals. In GTA V it isn't about 'flaming hipsters', it's about downright fucking killing them. Let me remind you the context. In both games you kill innocent people who haven't done anything to deserve it. Yet in one it's considered fine yet in the other people think the author is committing hate speech. For starters things that are depicted in a work of fiction shouldn't be considered as aligning with the author's beliefs. And then there's the hypocrisy of being completely fine with virtual murder, but saying the developers are monsters if it's restricted to certain demographics. It's like if you were watching a movie and the main villain starts massacring black people, and you're disgusted by his apparent racism, only to be relieved when you see he starts massacring people indiscriminately. It's fucking stupid and incoherent.[/QUOTE] It seems a lot like pushing a negative ideological agenda with actual negative potential when you make a game where the goal is to kill as many "Gay Fag Homos" and "Transgender Freaks" as possible. What harm will come to hipsters if there is a game that features a few missions with the objective to kill them?

[QUOTE=matt000024;47661020]It's wrong, but I wouldn't necessarily class it under hate speech because it is an ideology rather than something people cannot control such as race or sexual orientation.[/QUOTE] It's actually considered hate speech when it targets religion, which is a choice. [editline]5th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;47661158]It seems a lot like pushing a negative ideological agenda with actual negative potential when you make a game where the goal is to kill as many "Gay Fag Homos" and "Transgender Freaks" as possible. What harm will come to hipsters if there is a game that features a few missions with the objective to kill them?[/QUOTE]It seems a lot like pushing a negative ideological agenda with actual negative potential when you make a game where the goal is to kill as many innocents as possible. I mean murder is pretty serious, right? Yet it's seen as no big deal when it's depicted in videogames. Why is it any different here?

Is it supposed to be like a remake of that minigame in Postal 2?

[QUOTE=matt000024;47661020]It's wrong, but I wouldn't necessarily class it under hate speech because it is an ideology rather than something people cannot control such as race or sexual orientation.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=/dev/sda1;47660951]kill all jews its ok because being jewish is a choice[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=matt000024;47661020][b]ideology rather than something people cannot control such as race or sexual orientation.[/b][/QUOTE] [img]http://i.imgur.com/H6SJk7Q.png[/img]

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661163]It's actually considered hate speech when it targets religion, which is a choice. [editline]5th May 2015[/editline] It seems a lot like pushing a negative ideological agenda with actual negative potential when you make a game where the goal is to kill as many innocents as possible. I mean murder is pretty serious, right? Yet it's seen as no big deal when it's depicted in videogames. Why is it any different here?[/QUOTE] I beg your pardon? Murder is certainly a social issue, but it is far more general than the issue of killing specific groups of people due to hate of them. A shooter with generic targets, even if innocent, is far less influencing than a game which focuses on killing gay and trans people. Games and other publications like these can also further drive someone into a rut of bigotry, because it supports hateful ideas similar to their own.

[QUOTE=Levithan;47660874]isn't that the game that has at least one neo-nazi as a developer?[/QUOTE] Been disproven but for the sake of argument, let's say there was. Is that really relevant? Sure, you could boycott the game for having such poor taste in hires but it's not like Hatred is about killing Jews.

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;47661241]I beg your pardon? Murder is certainly a social issue, but it is far more general than the issue of killing specific groups of people due to hate of them. A shooter with generic targets, even if innocent, is far less influencing than a game which focuses on killing gay and trans people. Games and other publications like these can also further drive someone into a rut of bigotry, because it supports hateful ideas similar to their own.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but what makes you think it would be more influential? I see no reason to think that.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661124]And why does it matter what reason people use to discriminate against them? Whether it's nebulous doesn't matter, it's usually all the same for the bullies who usually see them as stereotypical individuals. In GTA V it isn't about 'flaming hipsters', it's about downright fucking killing them. Let me remind you the context. In both games you kill innocent people who haven't done anything to deserve it. Yet in one it's considered fine yet in the other people think the author is committing hate speech. For starters things that are depicted in a work of fiction shouldn't be considered as aligning with the author's beliefs. And then there's the hypocrisy of being completely fine with virtual murder, but saying the developers are monsters if it's restricted to certain demographics. It's like if you were watching a movie and the main villain starts massacring black people, and you're disgusted by his apparent racism, only to be relieved when you see he starts massacring people indiscriminately. It's fucking stupid and incoherent.[/QUOTE] Don't think that's remotely comparable considering hipsters aren't being hunted down and killed in the streets. Also they're not subjected to harassment in everyday life like homosexuals and transexuals are. It's all about context and remember that outburst by Trevor about hipsters in the game? That explains why he hates them so much, because he's always getting called one himself.

Even then games where you commit atrocities against specific races or religions exist and are not branded as hate speech. Take Total War for example. Once you conquer a city you can choose to exterminate the majority of its occupants and make your colonies more manageable. It allows you and even encourage you through gameplay incentives to commit genocide, yet there hasn't been any controversy about this at all.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661293]I'm sorry but what makes you think it would be more influential? I see no reason to think that.[/QUOTE] At the very least, it's significantly more distasteful to have a game where you're killing faggots and transsexual freaks over a game where you're just going around killing people because it's a hate crime.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661293]I'm sorry but what makes you think it would be more influential? I see no reason to think that.[/QUOTE] There are people who openly and proudly hate trans people and have admitted to wishing to cause violence and harm to them, and many more who are less open about it, and also a myriad of groups for those people to be in, but there are really not so many clubs for plain old murderers to be part of. What I'm saying is that people are far more accepting and/or dismissive of violence against trans people than they are of the idea of murdering people in general. An example would be the use of trans panic defenses in courts.

[QUOTE=Korova;47661303]Don't think that's remotely comparable considering hipsters aren't being hunted down and killed in the streets. Also they're not subjected to harassment in everyday life like homosexuals and transexuals are. It's all about context and remember that outburst by Trevor about hipsters in the game? That explains why he hates them so much, because he's always getting called one himself.[/QUOTE] And how does it make their massacre any more justified?

Axel, I don't mean to derail this, but could I just ask if you support trans people?? Like right now I'm getting the idea that you don't, so I would like to apologize in the case that I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661310]Even then games where you commit atrocities against specific races or religions exist and are not branded as hate speech. Take Total War for example. Once you conquer a city you can choose to exterminate the majority of its occupants and make your colonies more manageable. It allows you and even encourage you through gameplay incentives to commit genocide, yet there hasn't been any controversy about this at all.[/QUOTE] You're really comparing a game based on historical religious warfare/conflicts (which doesn't have a visual fraction of the brutality) to a game where you're going out and committing mass murders against gay men prancing around in pink shirts? Come on. Again, context. Christians aren't going around slaughtering Saracens after successfully sieging Mesopotamia anymore. There's an emotional disconnect given the amount of time that has passed (about 1000 years in this case)

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;47661317]There are people who openly and proudly hate trans people and have admitted to wishing to cause violence and harm to them, and many more who are less open about it, and also a myriad of groups for those people to be in, but there are really not so many clubs for plain old murderers to be part of. What I'm saying is that people are far more accepting and/or dismissive of violence against trans people than they are of the idea of murdering people in general. An example would be the use of trans panic defenses in courts.[/QUOTE] Yeah and there are people who are murderous maniacs and want everybody to die (see school shooters for instance). Does that mean developers of violent video games are responsible for their acts?

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661320]And how does it make their massacre any more justified?[/QUOTE] It doesn't but no one is getting offended over GTAV's portrayal of hipsters because I don't think anyone gives enough of a shit about hipsters to become a hipster serial killer. There are serial killers that prey on homosexuals and transsexuals, and they think they're completely justified due to religious based convictions.

[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;47661327]Axel, I don't mean to derail this, but could I just ask if you support trans people?? Like right now I'm getting the idea that you don't, so I would like to apologize in the case that I'm wrong.[/QUOTE] Of course? What makes you think I don't? If you followed my posts from earlier you'd see that I consider that calling for violence against some arbitrary type of people is hate speech, regardless of their race or culture. I really don't understand why so many of you are against this idea which to me seems rather reasonable and far more tolerant than only considering it is when against 'officially projected' demographics. [editline]5th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Korova;47661333]You're really comparing a game based on historical religious warfare/conflicts (which doesn't have a visual fraction of the brutality) to a game where you're going out and committing mass murders against gay men prancing around in pink shirts? Come on. Again, context. Christians aren't going around slaughtering Saracens after successfully sieging Mesopotamia anymore. There's an emotional disconnect given the amount of time that has passed (about 1000 years in this case)[/QUOTE] See, that's the whole point. People don't give a shit about past massacres anymore because they're emotionally disconnected from them. Why should emotions play any part in characterising hate speech, which is a judicial matter?

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661347]Of course? What makes you think I don't? If you followed my posts from earlier you'd see that I consider that calling for violence against some arbitrary type of people is hate speech, regardless of their race or culture. I really don't understand why so many of you are against this idea which to me seems rather reasonable and far more tolerant than only considering it is when against 'officially projected' demographics. [editline]5th May 2015[/editline] See, that's the whole point. People don't give a shit about past massacres anymore because they're emotionally disconnected from them. Why should emotions play any part in characterising hate speech, which is a judicial matter?[/QUOTE] Because one is in a historical context and this is "let's see how many faggots and trans freaks we can kill"-tier shit One is done in a tasteful and respectful manner and one is not.

[QUOTE=_Axel;47661347]Of course? What makes you think I don't? If you followed my posts from earlier you'd see that I consider that calling for violence against some arbitrary type of people is hate speech, regardless of their race or culture. I really don't understand why so many of you are against this idea which to me seems rather reasonable and far more tolerant than only considering it is when against 'officially projected' demographics.[/QUOTE] It's just that like... saying "actually EVERYBODY matters!!" speaks over people who are trying to voice their concerns over specific social and demographic issues while saying nothing new whatsoever. Like, yes, activists and rights advocates understand rich and white and Christian and male people matter, too, it's just that there are groups that need to be brought up from poverty and oppression and institutions need to be restructured to accommodate them as well, right here right now. That doesn't mean anybody else doesn't matter. It's just easier and more effective to make small advances rather than laying a blanket of tolerance and friendship over everything.

WARNING: THREAD HAS REACHED CRITICAL MASS OF ABSOLUTELY POINTLESS CONVERSATION ABANDON THREAD

who the fuck cares jesus christ do you also throw a fit over every post on stormfront? Just ignore, it. If you're gonna be annoyed at someone be annoyed at that fat turd for publicising it, or be annoyed at valve for allowing so much garbage on steam

I wish Valve removed more bad games from greenlight, devs like the ones behind this game are what's wrong with the system, regardless of what their intentions were.

At least put some effort into the game and make it funny. Being a dick is just annoying, but being a [I]funny[/I] dick is totally different.