News story got updated at 4:29PM on the BBC - there is no CCTV footage and no one reported it to the bus driver. What the hell?
(Also I did some barebones research, since Dec 2012 there have been something like 6 [i]reported[/i] sexual assaults on busses, although one of the cases was actually catching a guy responsible for 4 reported cases. Definitely not something people should bear in mind, then)
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40083861]Yeah, the girl did something pretty idiotic though - You do not go upstairs alone on a late night bus if you're a woman.
I am not saying "She deserved it" before anyone tries to spin it that way, I'm saying use some common sense - Yeah, she shouldn't have to worry about that and it's horrible that in our society she has to, but whilst she does, you think about these things. Safety 101.
Hope they catch the bastards and they get a proper sentence for this (Read: Life)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cats meow;40084144]This is horrible, however a 14 year old sitting on the top deck of the bus on one of the late night buses on a Friday night isn't the greatest idea[/QUOTE]
hey wanna stop with the victim blaming please? thanks in advance.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40085275]hey wanna stop with the victim blaming please? thanks in advance.[/QUOTE]
Not blaming the victim, the blame lies entirely with our culture and the guys who committed the crime. But whilst patriarchal rape culture is the norm, you got to bear it in mind where your own safety is concerned.
Advocating greater safety awareness and common sense =/= blaming the victim
[quote]Yeah, the girl did something pretty idiotic though[/quote]
Ok remind me how calling rape victims idiots ISN'T blaming her and is advocating greater safety awareness and is going to get the rape reported any faster?
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085293]Not blaming the victim, the blame lies entirely with our culture and the guys who committed the crime. But whilst [b]patriarchal rape culture[/b] is the norm, you got to bear it in mind where your own safety is concerned.
Advocating greater safety awareness and common sense =/= blaming the victim[/QUOTE]
Are you for real?
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40085373]Are you for real?[/QUOTE]
Probably been hanging around with feminists for too long. Our current culture is based on patriarchal hierarchy systems (Though it is evolving, slowly), which in part have an undercurrent of what is termed "rape culture". Again, it's changing, but the norm is still for it. As the case of that American town and that girl who got drunk at the party with jocks is a nice demonstration of.
[editline]29th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40085362]Ok remind me how calling rape victims idiots ISN'T blaming her and is advocating greater safety awareness and is going to get the rape reported any faster?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, sorry, maybe I should've said "She did something against common sense", then. Oh noez a wording problem.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085395]Probably been hanging around with feminists for too long. Our current culture is based on patriarchal hierarchy systems (Though it is evolving, slowly), which in part have an undercurrent of what is termed "rape culture". Again, it's changing, but the norm is still for it. As the case of that American town and that girl who got drunk at the party with jocks is a nice demonstration of.
[editline]29th March 2013[/editline]
Yeah, sorry, maybe I should've said "She did something against common sense", then. Oh noez a wording problem.[/QUOTE]
If a rape culture existed, then rape would be legal.
Kindly don't involve Scotland in a discussion with those hill billy bastards who tried to sweep that rape under the rug, they're a world apart.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085395]Probably been hanging around with feminists for too long. Our current culture is based on patriarchal hierarchy systems (Though it is evolving, slowly), which in part have an undercurrent of what is termed "rape culture". Again, it's changing, but the norm is still for it. As the case of that American town and that girl who got drunk at the party with jocks is a nice demonstration of.
[editline]29th March 2013[/editline]
Yeah, sorry, maybe I should've said "She did something against common sense", then. Oh noez a wording problem.[/QUOTE]
Hey that's funny because you're part of rape culture because there's no point in saying "oh you should/shouldn't have done X" to a rape victim after the fact because all it does is imply she is somehow at fault for being assaulted.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40085413]If a rape culture existed, then rape would be legal.[/quote]
That's not what rape culture is do some research.
"Evil news rapey abuse story victim stiffy stiffy blood soaked murder scene picture horror, horror mindy numb, numb evil criminal teatime assault police crime law right thinking people sick perverts perverting perverse sentenced to tv and mobile phone pictures of blood society was everywhere screaming I will fight for my children sex dying before reaching hospital the prosecution told the jury it is dogbum shooting forensic testimony blackmailed by stiffy stiffy rape abuse every single day."
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40085420]Hey that's funny because you're part of rape culture because there's no point in saying "oh you should/shouldn't have done X" to a rape victim after the fact because all it does is imply she his somehow at fault for being assaulted.[/QUOTE]
Again, I'm not blaming her, I'm saying that there should be more general awareness of the fact that bus top decks are shady and it is generally considered common sense. In no way did I go "Oh she went upstairs probably asking for it then".
Which would be endorsing rape culture.
I mean, by that yardstick we should never tell people about things like "Watch your drink in a club", "don't go in back alleys late at night", "Don't seperate from friends on a night out" because by warning people of safety measures we're inherently blaming them and saying that if anything happens they're at fault. And fwiw, the police officers who used to give safety talks at the schools around hereabouts would actually say the thing about busses that I've been saying.
Fuckin' glasgow, such a shitehole, I live 60 minutes away from it aswell...
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085439]Again, I'm not blaming her, I'm saying that there should be more general awareness of the fact that bus top decks are shady and it is generally considered common sense. In no way did I go "Oh she went upstairs probably asking for it then".
Which would be endorsing rape culture.
I mean, by that yardstick we should never tell people about things like "Watch your drink in a club", "don't go in back alleys late at night", "Don't seperate from friends on a night out" because by warning people of safety measures we're inherently blaming them and saying that if it happens they're at fault.[/QUOTE]
There's a difference between telling people to be careful and telling them they fucked up after the fact. It doesn't have to be as direct as "asking for it" to be victim blaming.
If a girl gets drugged at a club there's no point in telling her after the fact "you should have watched your drink" because that IS blaming her.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40085482]There's a difference between telling people to be careful and telling them they fucked up after the fact. It doesn't have to be as direct as "asking for it" to be victim blaming.
If a girl gets drugged at a club there's no point in telling her after the fact "you should have watched your drink" because that IS blaming her.[/QUOTE]
Except I am not telling her, because I am not interacting with her. I wouldn't say it to the Victim, I'm saying it to a bunch of FPers, so that you guys might be aware of it.
[QUOTE=zeromancer;40085455]Fuckin' glasgow, such a shitehole, I live 60 minutes away from it aswell...[/QUOTE]
It doesn't take an hour to get from dunoon to glasgow.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40085420]Hey that's funny because you're part of rape culture because there's no point in saying "oh you should/shouldn't have done X" to a rape victim after the fact because all it does is imply she is somehow at fault for being assaulted.
That's not what rape culture is do some research.[/QUOTE]
I've never met a single person here in Scotland who goes "Rape, ah fuck it, it happens herp derp," in fact I don't think I've ever met anyone who trivialises or condones rape in anyway, there really is no such thing as a rape culture, it's not like folk actually see victim blaming and that shit and just nod their heads and go along with it, maybe some fucking mongos do but most don't.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40084508]It's generally accepted in general that public transport late at night isn't the safest thing in the world, especially if you're a young woman seperating yourself from your friends for whatever reason.
And as BadHand said, Glasgow has a reputation, a deserved one, as characterised by the non-reaction by any of the people on that bus.
And no, I'm not justifying the rape, at no point did I say that, in fact, I even pointed out that someone would say that despite that not being what I said.
Pointing out that she made a mistake (As dictated by common sense on busses - Which is, late at night, don't seperate from friends and on quiet busses sit near the driver) is not the same as going "She deserved that" - it says something about YOU that you equate the two statements.[/QUOTE]
Gotta love Switzerland, they have at least one security guard on the night buses.
[QUOTE=HighestChief;40084089]The big picture is, some people just realize why not do something when the worst thing that could happen is death. And if it's gonna happen anyways, why fucking not rape, kill, provide, nurture, survive etc...
[/QUOTE]
this is way too much depth for me, i give up.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40085502]I've never met a single person here in Scotland who goes "Rape, ah fuck it, it happens herp derp," in fact I don't think I've ever met anyone who trivialises or condones rape in anyway, there really is no such thing as a rape culture, it's not like folk actually see victim blaming and that shit and just nod their heads and go along with it, maybe some fucking mongos do but most don't.[/QUOTE]
Probably because you hang out with nice, enlightened reasonable people. I'm also Scottish, and I have encountered people on nights out or just in day-to-day life who have acted consistent with rape culture.
Yeah, fucking mongos maybe, but there are a lot of them. Enough for it to be a widely recognised phenomena, and trying to say that we aren't guilty of it is dodging the issue and self-deceptive.
You know, the worst thing about rape, is that I don't even give a fuck if they catch the rapist, if he/she gets sentenced, put in jail or some shit, although it is preferred. The worst thing is, the victim is scarred for life, and in some cases will never recover, there will always be a dark stain in his memory of such a horrible act. Vengeance on the rapist doesn't give the victim anything. I'm not saying that they shouldn't be set to trail or anything close to that, what I want to say, put in simple words, is just...
Shit's fucked up, man.
[QUOTE=Earthen;40085513]Gotta love Switzerland, they have at least one security guard on the night buses.[/QUOTE]
That's awesome, and should really be the standard everywhere.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085499]Except I am not telling her, because I am not interacting with her. I wouldn't say it to the Victim, I'm saying it to a bunch of FPers, so that you guys might be aware of it.[/QUOTE]
Saying it behind her back is no better.
[QUOTE=Earthen;40085513]Gotta love Switzerland, they have at least one security guard on the night buses.[/QUOTE]
Switzerland generally is quite a country to live in.
[editline]29th March 2013[/editline]
Oh but please don't make it FP's next Scandinavia
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40085502]I've never met a single person here in Scotland who goes "Rape, ah fuck it, it happens herp derp," in fact I don't think I've ever met anyone who trivialises or condones rape in anyway, there really is no such thing as a rape culture, it's not like folk actually see victim blaming and that shit and just nod their heads and go along with it, maybe some fucking mongos do but most don't.[/QUOTE]
Did you miss the Steubenville thread where there were literally thousands of tweets/posts that amounted to shit like "she shouldn't have gotten drunk" or "what do you expect when you pass out around a bunch of guys" or "dumb slut ruined two young men's careers"?
THAT is what rape culture is. Not your strawman'd definition.
You haven't personally met someone out of what, the 200~ or so people you probably even know? Wow what a fucking shocker but there's a lot more people out there in the world sonny.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40085625]Saying it behind her back is no better.[/QUOTE]
Then re-read it as "As this girl illustrates, night busses are not the safest place in the world. Don't seperate yourself from your friends or away from the driver if without friends on them". Because THAT is what I'm conveying. Using her to illustrate a safety issue rather than blaming her for it.
And yeah, it is a "thing". I can find news articles dealing with 6 such other cases in the UK alone (And bear in mind that an estimated 80% of sexual assaults go unreported) since Decemeber 2012. So there is a safety issue that should definitely be brought to wider awareness there.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40083861]Yeah, the girl did something pretty idiotic though - You do not go upstairs alone on a late night bus if you're a woman.
I am not saying "She deserved it" before anyone tries to spin it that way, I'm saying use some common sense - Yeah, she shouldn't have to worry about that and it's horrible that in our society she has to, but whilst she does, you think about these things. Safety 101.
Hope they catch the bastards and they get a proper sentence for this (Read: Life)[/QUOTE]
how about the rapists use common sense instead and just don't rape
the myth of the "dark creepy back alley" is dumb too, the vast majority of rapes (over 3/4) are committed by someone the victim knows already
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40085669]how about the rapists use common sense instead and just don't rape
the myth of the "dark creepy back alley" is dumb too, the vast majority of rapes (over 3/4) are committed by someone the victim knows already[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that'd be nice. I'll just go round up every rapist and ask them nicely not to rape anyone, shall I? Sounds like it'll work
We'll never eliminate rape, and tackling the underlying problems that give us rape culture is going to take generations.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085685]Yeah, that'd be nice. I'll just go round up every rapist and ask them nicely not to rape anyone, shall I? Sounds like it'll work[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what you should do actually
and if the "nice" method doesnt work there's laws
(well, save for the fact that only 3% of rapists ever see a day in jail.)
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;40084610]Are you crippled? It's a fucking bus in Glasgow, not a fucking back alley in Baghdad.[/QUOTE]
I'd take Baghdad over Glasgow anyday.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;40085698]That's exactly what you should do actually
and if the "nice" method doesnt work there's laws
(well, save for the fact that only 3% of rapists ever see a day in jail.)[/QUOTE]
Right, so first of all we have to identify everyone who is a rapist, an impossibility in itself. Then we have to hope that they'll actually listen to you asking nicely (Protip: They won't, they may say the will, but 90% won't).
And hah, yes, the law. Well, we can only get them if they commit the crime or are seen to be preparing to commit the crime. Kinda hard.
What planet do you live on? Because I sure wish I could live there, it's so much nicer than the real world.
Until then, changing the way that we educate children to eliminate the underlying causes, and eliminating support for rape culture from our popular media/culture is the real way to tackle it in a few generations time.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;40085731]Right, so first of all we have to identify everyone who is a rapist, an impossibility in itself.[/QUOTE]
Actually, there's a frighteningly high percentage of people who pretty much say they'd rape someone — as long as the word "rape" isn't used in the question
[IMG]http://24.media.tumblr.com/139907d7a32c4f9d3fadfa84d7a2c1f6/tumblr_mk1yh0yBrL1r42s8uo1_500.jpg[/IMG]
that's what "rape culture" is
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