UK MPs to hold debate on leaving the EU - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Van-man;32843554]Well they already act like they're not a part of the EU, except when it benefits them. Besides didn't they "join" the EU when it was beneficial for them? Sounds like they're playing the pretend card, and then bailing instead of taking it like a adult[/QUOTE] say that to Ireland or greece

[QUOTE=wraithcat;32843874]Consumer safety, interEU trading, standards consolidation, corporation limitation, civil rights strenghtening, strenghtens european international presence. [/QUOTE] Not to mention the Schengen agreement (why can't they sign these things in places that are easy to spell?), free trade area, EUROPOL and various courts that genuinely do protect the rights of people across the EU. I am sure there are hundreds more reasons as well.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32843971]They also put in the European bill of human rights which prevents our government from fucking us over.[/QUOTE] Bullshit, because of that bill we couldn't get rid of an illegal immigrant because the bill allows "a right to family life" even though he committed a crime. Also what's with the Tory hate?

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32843989]I mean really fucking hate them, I've hated them ever since they came into power but this would just be the icing on the hate cake.[/QUOTE] Please tell me you don't support Labour or even Lib Dems :|

[QUOTE=The mouse;32844037]Bullshit, because of that bill we couldn't get rid of an illegal immigrant because the bill allows "a right to family life" even though he committed a crime.[/QUOTE] That thing was so exaggerated it's unbelievable. [editline]18th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ihazard;32844049]Please tell me you don't support Labour or even Lib Dems :|[/QUOTE] While I support neither of them I'd sooner have labour in power than the tories.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32844054]That thing was so exaggerated it's unbelievable.[/QUOTE] It's the principle of the matter, the EU takes away our right to indepentant rule.

[QUOTE=The mouse;32844037]Bullshit, because of that bill we couldn't get rid of an illegal immigrant because the bill allows "a right to family life" even though he committed a crime.[/QUOTE] It isn't because of that bill, its because of preexisting UK law iirc.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32843989]I mean really fucking hate them, I've hated them ever since they came into power but this would just be the icing on the hate cake.[/QUOTE] Oh thank god I had this terrible notion you might be mentally ill.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32843989]I mean really fucking hate them, I've hated them ever since they came into power but this would just be the icing on the hate cake.[/QUOTE] Only since they came into power? I've hated them ever since my parents explained the parties to me. [QUOTE=Ihazard;32844049]Please tell me you don't support Labour or even Lib Dems :|[/QUOTE] It's the lesser of multiple evils, though the Lib Dems will never get my vote after what they did. Also, the regulations are much greater than most of the anti-EU people realise - you have quite literally got a massive array of protection with EU bills. Sure there are the few media-hyped issues, but have you realised that the major papers are all racist pieces of trash here?

[QUOTE=The mouse;32844069]It's the principle of the matter, the EU takes away our right to indepentant rule.[/QUOTE] But it doesn't, anything the EU passes can be vetoed and blocked by MP's if they really wanted to.

[QUOTE=Ihazard;32843535]It costs us £50 million a day for the EU to impose stupid shit laws on us and fuck up our country, with no benefit apart from 'trade', I'm pretty sure that other countries and foreign businesses will want a stake in the UK market regardless of what the EU has to say[/QUOTE] I'm only a small personal level business person but even for me the Euro trade agreements are great, it means I can send stuff cheaply and fast to the EU meaning my customer base is much larger. If it wasn't for that I'd probably have import tax as well as having to fill out customs. Not to mention free travel between european countrys without having to do customs etc.

[QUOTE=Ihazard;32844049]Please tell me you don't support Labour or even Lib Dems :|[/QUOTE] They are the lesser of two evils. It's not like the minor parties or independents are actually worth voting for thanks to our system.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;32844090]Only since they came into power? I've hated them ever since my parents explained the parties to me. It's the lesser of multiple evils, though the Lib Dems will never get my vote after what they did. Also, the regulations are much greater than most of the anti-EU people realise - you have quite literally got a massive array of protection with EU bills. Sure there are the few media-hyped issues, but have you realised that the major papers are all racist pieces of trash here?[/QUOTE] I was sadly duped into believing they might be good by a friend (a friend who has recently become a bleeding heart liberal)

[QUOTE=Terminutter;32844090] Also, the regulations are much greater than most of the anti-EU people realise - you have quite literally got a massive array of protection with EU bills. Sure there are the few media-hyped issues, but have you realised that the major papers are all racist pieces of trash here?[/QUOTE] This. The EU does a shit load of good that goes quietly unmentioned. A lot of stuff for the environment in recent years, including requiring all smart phones sold in the EU to have micro usb so people do not need multiple chargers. Not quite sure how that helps the environment, but they claim it does so..

[QUOTE=hexpunK;32844102]They are the lesser of two evils. It's not like the minor parties or independents are actually worth voting for thanks to our system.[/QUOTE] Oh and never forget "I mr not lying lib dem leader (i promise) promise not to raise student university fees! Lol just joking" I dont think people trust any of the parties anymore. There is no-one to vote for :|

[QUOTE=Jsm;32844121]This. The EU does a shit load of good that goes quietly unmentioned. A lot of stuff for the environment in recent years, including requiring all smart phones sold in the EU to have micro usb so people do not need multiple chargers. Not quite sure how that helps the environment, but they claim it does so..[/QUOTE] The amount of chargers thrown away for old phones, though they were probably bullshitting that so that they could have an easier life. It's a justified lie though, I love the ability to use my charger for ANY phone as opposed to one specific model for some arbitary reason. And the free transport / trade is so fucking amazing. I can get to France in an hour and a half, and have a good day out, and businesses have a European market with really good regulations, with no tarriffs.

[QUOTE=Jsm;32844121]This. The EU does a shit load of good that goes quietly unmentioned. A lot of stuff for the environment in recent years, including requiring all smart phones sold in the EU to have micro usb so people do not need multiple chargers. Not quite sure how that helps the environment, but they claim it does so..[/QUOTE] You said it yourself, they use micro USB so you only need a micro USB rather than needing a charger for your phone as well as your camera as well as whatever else you might have so instead of buying all the parts for a charger you make/buy a micro USB cable.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;32843868]Don't do it. The trade agreements we get from the EU are pretty fucking good. Sure our current returns for the investment aren't great, but they could pay off and be useful sme time. Also, EU customer laws and the free travel is incredibly useful. I like not having to file for a visa every time that I want to go to France or Ireland. The euro would have been great to get into if we had done it when it was instated, but that might have been something that paid off not to do. Good concept, at least.[/QUOTE] "Trade agreements are fucking good": Whoever told you that is spewing bullshit out of their ass, the restriction the EU puts in place means the UK can not buy/import ANY foodstuffs from the USA (which we used to do, it was also cheaper), we're restricted to use a shared "oil cost" where every country has the same price level, as soon as you start to add in the countries in high debt (Greece) into the EU these things start to spiral, we're also forced to get oil and other fuels from EU countries only, so no cheap oil from Russia and even though we pump most of our gas from Norway, we have to pay a huge fucking tax to the EU because of it. "EU Customer laws": I seriously hope you're joking, most of those laws actually restrict us more than what they were put in place for. "Free travel": Sure it's a bonus of not having to get a Visa every time but is it really worth it? The Euro is a flawed concept, it would only work if they didn't allow countries which have a poor credit history or are debt merge into it, as we've seen that's what is dragging it all down as now we apparently have to bail these fuckers out because they are now with us, bailing them out causes the currency to go down and thus the economy shits a brick because after the bail out, there is nothing to get things back on track. Please leave the EU already.

[QUOTE=Icedshot;32844155]Oh and never forget "I mr not lying lib dem leader (i promise) promise not to raise student university fees! Lol just joking" I dont think people trust any of the parties anymore. There is no-one to vote for :|[/QUOTE] Clegg kind of isn't holding his end of the bargain up to ensure he gets to stay in the coalition for as long as he can without pissing of the Tories it seems. But that does make him a massive cunt for going back on his party manifesto that easily.

[QUOTE=Stockers678;32843892]France, Germany, the UK, Italy, Spain, The Netherlands, Poland, Belgium, Sweden have a higher GDP than Norway and are in the EU, so go figure.[/QUOTE] Obviously, since Norway only has a population of 5 million. Per capita, Norway's GDP is much, much higher than most (if not all) of those.

[QUOTE=-Method;32843549]I think our membership within the EU costs us something like £40 million A DAY. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ihazard;32843535]It costs us £50 million a day for the EU to impose stupid shit laws on us and fuck up our country, with no benefit apart from 'trade', I'm pretty sure that other countries and foreign businesses will want a stake in the UK market regardless of what the EU has to say[/QUOTE] If you're quoting from the UKIP you're dumb. [quote]This has been on various UKIP election leaflets, so it’s evidently a claim they’re proud of – but does it stand up? Simple maths tells us that Britain paying £40 million a day to the EU would mean an annual contribution of £14.6 billion. However, the most recent Treasury Report on the UK’s EU budget contributions (PDF) shows the following [B]GROSS[/B] figures: 2005 – £12.5 billion 2006 – £12.4 billion 2007 – £12.5 billion 2008 – £13.7 billion (estimated) £13.7 billion divided by 365 = £37.5 million, so UKIP are, at the very least, rounding up by £2.5 million a day. Not much to round up by? That works out as £912,500,000 a year – I hope UKIP won’t be that out with their sums if they ever get near power… But what about the rebate? What about the EU funds that are paid back to the UK in the form of things like the European Regional Development Fund, European Social Fund and the like? What’s the NET contribution? (Again from the most recent Treasury report) [B]2005 – £3.6 billion 2006 – £3.9 billion 2007 – £4.6 billion 2008 – £3.6 billion[/B] (estimate) UKIP deliberately using gross rather than net to make the situation seem worse is to be expected, of course, but still – let’s be generous and take the highest figure of £4.6 billion – that’s still a lot of money, right? It may only work out as £12.6 million a day, but that’s still a lot of money. Well, yes. But big figures are nothing without context, so let’s see how much the UK government spends on other things:UK government expenditure breakdown, shamelessly leeched from Wikipedia [B]Would you look at that? The UK may be forking out a net figure of around £4 billion a year for EU membership, but at the same time we’re having to pay £31 billion a year merely to service the INTEREST on our debt. That’s not *pay off* our debt – just keep up with the interest. Christ! [/B] In other words, the EU costs us 7.75 times LESS than it does to keep the international bailiffs from the door. (And that £31 billion was BEFORE the most recent round of government borrowing, and before the collapse of sterling, both of which will have hugely escalated the figure for this year, as and when it’s released.) So, £31 billion in interest payments, for which we see no return whatsoever, versus £4 billion in payments to the EU, from which even its harshest critics must admit that we get *some* benefits – even if they will only admit to cheaper mobile phone charges or ease of travel. I don’t know about you, but I’d say that’s not too bad a deal, in comparison.[/quote] Source- [url]http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/05/ukips-britain-paying-the-eu-40-million-a-day-claim-vs-the-real-costs-of-uk-eu-membership/[/url]

[QUOTE=Jsm;32844121]This. The EU does a shit load of good that goes quietly unmentioned. A lot of stuff for the environment in recent years, including requiring all smart phones sold in the EU to have micro usb so people do not need multiple chargers. Not quite sure how that helps the environment, but they claim it does so..[/QUOTE] It certainly makes it more convenient for the end customer.

[QUOTE=Scar;32843592][img]http://www.adminet-europe.eu/euni/europe.gif[/img] Totally not in Europe, at all[/QUOTE] We are not even connected by land :colbert:

[QUOTE=The mouse;32844069]It's the principle of the matter, the EU takes away our right to indepentant rule.[/QUOTE] It's a right you granted to the EU. That's the core of the matter. The EU was granted a number of rights from the member countries to perform several things. Likewise an immigrant, even an EU nation member can be evicted from an EU nation (different than his nationality) under the current legislation fairly easily. Usually for commiting crimes or if it's feasible to do so. Hence I'd say that the inability to evict said illegal immigrants has more something to do with intra UK legislation than anything else - I don't recall either Germany or France having the same issues. But, at least I get the feeling, the EU is a great scapegoat in the UK and as a result almost everything negative, even which happens on purely internal legislation, that is not impacted by EU legislation at all (usually there has to be an European impact of an action first for EU legislation to have an effect) is blamed on the EU. The immigrant issue is a perfect example. [QUOTE=Fatal-Error;32844215]We are not even connected by land :colbert:[/QUOTE] Unless I am mistaken, by international law, you still are, as you are still on the continental shelf.

[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;32844174]"Trade agreements are fucking good": Whoever told you that is spewing bullshit out of their ass, the restriction the EU puts in place means the UK can not buy/import ANY foodstuffs from the USA (which we used to do, it was also cheaper), we're restricted to use a shared "oil cost" where every country has the same price level, as soon as you start to add in the countries in high debt (Greece) into the EU these things start to spiral, we're also forced to get oil and other fuels from EU countries only, so no cheap oil from Russia and even though we pump most of our gas from Norway, we have to pay a huge fucking tax to the EU because of it. "EU Customer laws": I seriously hope you're joking, most of those laws actually restrict us more than what they were put in place for. "Free travel": Sure it's a bonus of not having to get a Visa every time but is it really worth it? The Euro is a flawed concept, it would only work if they didn't allow countries which have a poor credit history or are debt merge into it, as we've seen that's what is dragging it all down as now we apparently have to bail these fuckers out because they are now with us, bailing them out causes the currency to go down and thus the economy shits a brick because after the bail out, there is nothing to get things back on track. Please leave the EU already.[/QUOTE] Do you have any idea how the EU works? The free travel which is a benefit to me for the lack of visa, also allows for a free flow of workers between countries and lets businesses in the Eurozone [b]not pay tarrifs or duties[/b]. You know what that means? A business can sell it's goods to a market that's multiple times larger than the market of the UK alone, with [b]no extra charge[/b]. That's right, there are no/significantly less duties, making intercontinental trade much cheaper. EU customer laws cover pricing and quality. How do they restrict us? I've noticed that they cover multiple ways that you can be screwed over - they are specifically there to stop prices being hiked in one EU country over another. Did you learn about the EU from the Mail, or the Express?

[QUOTE=The mouse;32844069]It's the principle of the matter, the EU takes away our right to indepentant rule.[/QUOTE] Now you feel like a State in the US. Congrats :v: That is exactly how people who advocate that States deserve more rights talk about it.

[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;32844174]"Trade agreements are fucking good": Whoever told you that is spewing bullshit out of their ass, the restriction the EU puts in place means the UK can not buy/import ANY foodstuffs from the USA (which we used to do, it was also cheaper), we're restricted to use a shared "oil cost" where every country has the same price level, as soon as you start to add in the countries in high debt (Greece) into the EU these things start to spiral, we're also forced to get oil and other fuels from EU countries only, so no cheap oil from Russia and even though we pump most of our gas from Norway, we have to pay a huge fucking tax to the EU because of it. [/QUOTE] Where did you learn any of this crap? The biggest exporting partner of the UK is the USA, and the USA is it's third biggest import partner. Not sure when the last time you looked at a map was, but the USA is not a member of the EU. I'm not even going to rebut any of your other points since that's already been done by several others.

[QUOTE=Caesar;32844329]Where did you learn any of this crap? The biggest exporting partner of the UK is the USA, and the USA is it's third biggest import partner. Not sure when the last time you looked at a map was, but the USA is not a member of the EU. I'm not even going to rebut any of your other points since that's already been done by several others.[/QUOTE] Way to miss exactly what I said, due to the EU the UK can not import foodstuffs like corn and wheat in cheap bulk directly for the USA which what we did before joining the EU. Other items like hardwood and electronics the EU doesn't give a fuck about, next time you go into your supermarket, just look where the produce came from, it'll be mostly spain, france and germany. And before you say something about those countries being closer so it's cheaper, it has nothing to with that. It's because we have to buy from the EU to support the EU no matter if we like it or not, importing from outside the EU is forbidden or has a huge ass tax on it.

[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;32844407]Way to miss exactly what I said, due to the EU the UK can not import foodstuffs like corn and wheat in cheap bulk directly for the USA which what we did before joining the EU. Other items like hardwood and electronics the EU doesn't give a fuck about, next time you go into your supermarket, just look where the produce came from, it'll be mostly spain, france and germany.[/QUOTE] Nope, last I checked at my supermarket, the meat was British / Welsh / Irish / Danish and last and least in quantity, German, but when I go to vegetables I have Indian, Vietnam, English, Turkey and loads of other countries. Hardwood is really rather irrelevant in modern times - most of it comes from mass deforestation, which has to be stopped, and electronics are nearly always imported from China, with very little EU interferance short of the health and safety regulations, and the necessary ability to charge from micro USB. There's no rules stopping us from trading outside of the EU, it's just that most things can be imported from the EU more cheaply due to the lack of tarrifs or duties. If there was a "huge tax", how come I am buying babycorn from Vietnam?

I can think of only one benefit of leaving the EU: [b]We'd be kicked out of Eurovision.[/b] With the Bloc Voting and all the Eastern European countries voting for each other every year, I don't really think we'd miss it.