This is gonna totally fuck me up if it happens, I just moved here to study, I'd have to apply for visa and get so much more paperwork sorted..
If the referendum votes in favour of leaving the EU, the government will just ignore it.
I called it
The EU membership of our country is technically treasonous, it should be interesting to see what happens as a result of this referendum regardless
[url]http://www.acasefortreason.org.uk/[/url]
[QUOTE=Ancient;32844537]I can think of only one benefit of leaving the EU:
[b]We'd be kicked out of Eurovision.[/b]
With the Bloc Voting and all the Eastern European countries voting for each other every year, I don't really think we'd miss it.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry, but the Eurovision covers countries that aren't in the EU, too.
There is no escape from the political voting and cheesy singing.
It's only a matter of time until "My Lovely Horse" is actually sang in the Eurovision.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32844594]I'm sorry, but the Eurovision covers countries that aren't in the EU, too.
There is no escape from the political voting and cheesy singing.
It's only a matter of time until "My Lovely Horse" is actually sang in the Eurovision.[/QUOTE]
Well, in that case, voting "Yes" to NO-EU is practically suicide. Folkstone and Dove will basically become useless. Where will the Chavs get their cheap booze from now?
[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;32844407]Way to miss exactly what I said, due to the EU the UK can not import foodstuffs like corn and wheat in cheap bulk directly for the USA which what we did before joining the EU.
Other items like hardwood and electronics the EU doesn't give a fuck about, next time you go into your supermarket, just look where the produce came from, it'll be mostly spain, france and germany.
And before you say something about those countries being closer so it's cheaper, it has nothing to with that. It's because we have to buy from the EU to support the EU no matter if we like it or not, importing from outside the EU is forbidden or has a huge ass tax on it.[/QUOTE]
a) the market for the thing has to be in place - Corn is not very marketable in the EU due to it almost only being used as animal food. What the EU needs tends to be produced locally, with the majority of animal food imports being south american soya (mostly monsanto produce)
b) some limitations do indeed exist, but these exist to protect local farmers and would exist irregardless of the EU. The UK would definitely not abandon them.
c) Some foodstuff is so much imported that it's hard to find local EU produce actually. Take a look at garlic for instance. The sheer vast majority is chinese.
The only thing I really really dislike that was put forward by the EU (on the behest of member countries - that's important to note) was import taxes on stuff that go over 22 dollars.
That's another point people fail to realise. The EU is not a completely independent body which makes rules on it's own behest. But most of the regulations come from inside the member countries actually.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32844594]I'm sorry, but the Eurovision covers countries that aren't in the EU, too.
There is no escape from the political voting and cheesy singing.
It's only a matter of time until "My Lovely Horse" is actually sang in the Eurovision.[/QUOTE]
I think we already quit the Eurovision for good :P
[QUOTE=Ancient;32844672]Well, in that case, voting "Yes" to NO-EU is practically suicide. Folkstone and Dove will basically become useless. Where will the Chavs get their cheap booze from now?[/QUOTE]
You misspelt both Folkestone and Dover in the same post :v: (Folkestone spelling mistakes are common, I've seen people who live there spell it wrong all the time)
Folkestone and Dover are both clinging, barely, to life due to the fact that there's the Eurotunnel and ferries there. It's a bit sad how run down they are considering how important the Eurotunnel is.
I'm not familiar with those ideas. What are some arguments for and against?
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32844594]I'm sorry, but the Eurovision covers countries that aren't in the EU, too.
There is no escape from the political voting and cheesy singing.
It's only a matter of time until "My Lovely Horse" is actually sang in the Eurovision.[/QUOTE]
They let Israel in, they will let anyone in. Well anyone inside the Eurovision satellite footprint. Its a great thing, if you take it as it is (an evening of comedic music followed by a Europe wide opinion poll of every country).
I think that you should stay in EU. For the sole reason that it's probably going to have better benefits when the crisis is over, and by leaving you're promoting the idea of leaving EU. Which is bad at these bad times.
Lol I like how people are like "OMG IF WE LEAVE THE EU WE CANT TRADE WITH THEM!". Our relationship with the EU is more a political rather than an economical link. We can still be friends and trade presents and be good neighbours but the problem is that Brussels and the high courts of the EU dictate alot of the over-standing rules of many EU states. If we leave its simply a break from that bond not trade...
Edit:
[QUOTE=wraithcat;32844682]a) the market for the thing has to be in place - Corn is not very marketable in the EU due to it almost only being used as animal food. What the EU needs tends to be produced locally, with the majority of animal food imports being south american soya (mostly monsanto produce)
b) some limitations do indeed exist, but these exist to protect local farmers and would exist irregardless of the EU. The UK would definitely not abandon them.
c) Some foodstuff is so much imported that it's hard to find local EU produce actually. Take a look at garlic for instance. The sheer vast majority is chinese.
[/QUOTE]
A) I don't know what to say about this one but most foods tends to be produced domestically for the country as it boosts the inner circular flow of income. Most food that comes from abroad tends to be labelled as "luxury goods" no matter how common or cheap it may be. The EU has tried to and force our agrarian sector into being a cohesive whole with other member states. How over this can stifle competition. You know how economics works in the 1980's onwards in america 308 million jobs were lost but simultaneously 309 million were lost. This is because of changing trades and specialisations if we do not stick to changing demands we can stifle the economy by not producing competition.
B) True farms will always exist but the difference is that member states will all specialise in certain goods in regards to farming. Other states will do better than others and some will die away its just how the market works its unpredictable and harsh at times for some.
C) Exactly we shouldn't try and force a closed economy and liberalise our trade and specialise.
I'll update later with replies and more info soon.
I don't know about you, but this European Human Rights Court that stops governments from deporting criminals and what not sounds pretty nice.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32846082]I don't know about you, but this European Human Rights Court that stops governments from deporting criminals and what not sounds pretty nice.[/QUOTE]
How does it sound nice?
[QUOTE=skifer;32845978]Lol I like how people are like "OMG IF WE LEAVE THE EU WE CANT TRADE WITH THEM!". Our relationship with the EU is more a political rather than an economical link. We can still be friends and trade presents and be good neighbours but the problem is that Brussels and the high courts of the EU dictate alot of the over-standing rules of many EU states. If we leave its simply a break from that bond not trade...[/QUOTE]
Have you any idea how the free movement of people and goods affects the economics behind trading with mainland Europe? The EU lets the trade be without duties or tarrifs, which means that we can sell our stuff and make significantly more profit, as opposed to getting clogged down with border-buerocracy.
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32846121]Have you any idea how the free movement of people and goods affects the economics behind trading with mainland Europe? The EU lets the trade be without duties or tarrifs, which means that we can sell our stuff and make significantly more profit, as opposed to getting clogged down with border-buerocracy.[/QUOTE]
But we pay billions of pounds for that 'right', also we barely export anything into europe but import a whole lot of stuff, I doubt the EU would force a tariff if we were to leave
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32846109]How does it sound nice?[/QUOTE]
Since when should deporting criminals be legal?
[QUOTE=Terminutter;32846121]Have you any idea how the free movement of people and goods affects the economics behind trading with mainland Europe? The EU lets the trade be without duties or tarrifs, which means that we can sell our stuff and make significantly more profit, as opposed to getting clogged down with border-buerocracy.[/QUOTE]
I have some, but lets not skip the point. We can still be part of the European Economic Area such as Norway ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Economic_Area[/url]). But we skip the bureaucracy of the European parliament. In other words our politics are less effected by the high courts but we can still manage our economy within the EU if needs be. However I think if Britain gets a kick up its arse and starts being the workshop of the world again the EU would beg for us to be in their economic circle again.
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32846219]But we pay billions of pounds for that 'right', also we barely export anything into europe but import a whole lot of stuff, I doubt the EU would force a tariff if we were to leave[/QUOTE]
Good point I missed that.
[QUOTE=skifer;32845978]Lol I like how people are like "OMG IF WE LEAVE THE EU WE CANT TRADE WITH THEM!". Our relationship with the EU is more a political rather than an economical link. We can still be friends and trade presents and be good neighbours but the problem is that Brussels and the high courts of the EU dictate alot of the over-standing rules of many EU states. If we leave its simply a break from that bond not trade...[/QUOTE]
if we leave we will be able to trade with them
but we'd still be paying massive amounts of cash and having to abide by many eu laws despite the fact we'd have absolutely no say in those rules
[url]http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2011/05/why-britain-leaving-the-eu-for-the-eea-or-efta-will-not-solve-any-of-the-anti-eu-crowds-complaints/[/url]
[quote]
“Let’s leave the EU and join the EEA or EFTA – Norway and Switzerland are doing fine without EU membership!” It’s a perennial argument of a surprisingly large number of anti-EU types, and I’ve been meaning to do a proper post on it for (literally) years. It is, needless to say, a nonsense argument based on a fundamental misunderstanding of Norwegian/Swiss relations with the EU.
Norway has oil. Switzerland’s a tax haven. Both have far, far smaller populations than the UK, accounting for their far higher GDPs per capita (and hence relative prosperity). They are not comparable with Britain.
Even if they were – both also have to pay in to the EU budget proportionate to their economies. Norway currently pays c.340 million euros per annum. This is more than many EU member states – especially when you consider the fact that actual members get money back, reducing their net contributions.
In fact, judging from this chart of net contributions,Norway would – if included in the chart – be about the 10th highest contributor to the EU budget, despite not being a member.
Rough maths tells us that, all things being equal, as the UK’s GDP is approximately 5.7 times that of Norway’s, the UK would still need to contribute around 2 billion euros a year to the EU budget if part of the EEA/EFTA. While having no say in what EU laws and regulations we’d still have to follow.
Because both Norway and Switzerland also – without having any say in their formulation – have to abide by 80-90% of EU rules and regulations in order to be part of the Common Market.
Because you know what you need for a Common Market to function? Common rules and regulations.
That’s the whole reason *why* the EEC has been shifting down the path towards elements of political union over the last five decades – you need a certain amount of political harmonisation to enable functional, stable economic harmonisation. The lack of greater political cohesion (especially the lack of a common fiscal policy) is one of the major contributing factors to the current eurozone crisis, FFS.
Also worth remembering – these “we’d be better off in EFTA/the EEA” arguments used to have a third “look how well so-and-so’s doing” country included: Iceland.
We don’t hear much about how well Iceland’s doing in the EEA any more, do we?
You see – it’s all very well saying “let’s leave the EU”. But if you’re advocating ditching the status quo you’d better have a pretty bloody well thought-through alternative plan.
The vast, vast majority of EU withdrawalists, however, seem simply not to have done their research.
[/quote]
sounds like a really good deal to me!!
[I]run like fuck[/I]
seriously we're in enough debt at is it is, we could really use the hundreds of billions we'll save from not being involved, its not like we'll lose out on trading with ANYONE of importance
The UK should threaten to leave unless the EU removes Greece :v:
Seriously, it's not fair that they can just shit on everyone so they can give Greece money to then wipe their butt on.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32846278]Since when should deporting criminals be legal?[/QUOTE]
Since they're foreign and they cost the tax payer if they stay in the UK
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32846219]But we pay billions of pounds for that 'right', also we barely export anything into europe but import a whole lot of stuff, I doubt the EU would force a tariff if we were to leave[/QUOTE]
It's not a right, it's a part of the conditions that we're an EU member.
The EU sure as hell would impose tariffs and duties if we left it, we're hardly a popular country.
Assuming that we got a deal like some of the non EU, but still under free trade agreement countries, we'd be in pretty much the same state, but with no say in the matter of laws and the like. We would be paying a little less, but not much less.
Also, the payments aren't as bad as the media makes it out to be - the whole world is in a state, not just the UK, and the media thrives on despair and misery, as it simply sells so much better than butterflies and kittens.
Obviously the EU is far from perfect, and it really does need to do something about Greece, as they are a right fucking state, but it's still beneficial to stay in the EU.
[QUOTE=SomeDumbShit;32843601]An American thinking he can tell us how to govern ourselves?
Hahahahahaha.[/QUOTE]
A European who probably constantly criticizes American politics but as soon as a foreigner criticizes your government the very idea is laughable?
Hahahahahaha.
Toxicpiano the article your posted has a very good point I admit it. But its much more than just GDP and a common market. Britain in order to become a great country again needs to tell the EU where to go. But its simply stifling the economy. Its the bullying game of the group of rich kids who have lots of wealth saying "oh pay us all some money and you can join our exclusive club :)". Now this "club" as you would call it is falling to pieces it may even come to a full-on collapse. Now here's the catch if we are in this club we go down with it. Even if it doesn't collapse its going to take a lifetime for all member states to get back on their feet. If we have the freedom to manage our economy and make the RIGHT decisions we have a chance of making Britain into an economic powerhouse. I know my predictions are optimistic but there has got to be a definite way of being independent and successful rather than being part of a non-democratic EU.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32846278]Since when should deporting criminals be legal?[/QUOTE]
Not British criminals, we don't still send them to Australia, we're talking about foreign criminals
[editline]18th October 2011[/editline]
The article's been updated:
No 10 have indicated that all [B]Conservative MPs will be expected to support the government in rejecting the referendum option[/B].
A Downing Street spokesman said the coalition agreement committed the UK to being a "positive participant in the European Union" and No 10 would "expect MPs and ministers to follow the government's policy".
Nigel Farage, leader of the UK Independence Party, said the debate was "a good start... but with all party leaders demanding that their MPs reject the motion [B]I hold out little hope of a yes vote[/B]".
Leave, get rich, come back to save the day.
[QUOTE=matt.ant;32846551]Not British criminals, we don't still send them to Australia, we're talking about foreign criminals[/QUOTE]
Why not go the entire opposite way and start deporting the law abiders to nice, hot countries where you can have a swimming pool in the back garden and the like?
We could then rent out England as a massive prison island for any other country to put their prisoners in.
[QUOTE=Ihazard;32846419]Since they're foreign and they cost the tax payer if they stay in the UK[/QUOTE]Then why not deport everyone on the dole, including the citizens? They cost tax too you know.
[QUOTE=Callius;32844203]If you're quoting from the UKIP you're dumb.
Source-
[url]http://www.jcm.org.uk/blog/2009/05/ukips-britain-paying-the-eu-40-million-a-day-claim-vs-the-real-costs-of-uk-eu-membership/[/url][/QUOTE]
"I don't have to stop smoking, compared to the money I'm paying on my loans it's nothing!"
Good logic there.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32846644]Then why not deport everyone on the dole, including the citizens? They cost tax too you know.[/QUOTE]
Because they're not foreign? Which is what I'm talking about.. and I was talking about criminals too. Illegal immigrants and foreign nationals committing crimes in this country and then not being deported because they claim certain breaches of human rights, which is always bullshit.
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