Family of Holocaust Survivor Ordered to Return 3,200 Year-Old German Artifact - Polidicks

I wonder how they know it's 3200 years old.

Aw yes, finally I found the last of the 7 scrolls of Iman-toph-fashun! Now Cthulhu will reign again!!!

"Sorry, I lost the tablet. Can't return it, you can't prove I didn't. Tough tits."

[QUOTE=Kendra;36182889]I wonder how they know it's 3200 years old.[/QUOTE] Because our science is not advanced enough to tell?

[QUOTE=Cone;36182379]it is a valuable artifact that was stolen. just because he was emotionally connected to it doesn't make it any less valuable to the people it originally belonged to, nor does it make whatever we could learn from studying it just go away. but that's not to say we should take it away from them now that they're connected to it; a good compromise would be to study it until everything about it is known, then to hand it back. since the person who original had it (and presumably looted it) is dead, taking it away from them isn't going to help matters.[/QUOTE] It's stolen. The man took it from a museum and kept it for himself, not for his 'emotional value', because he wanted to see how much he could get for that sucker, he just ended up keeping it afterwards. The man is a thief and you do not let people keep stolen property. You don't let thieves in your own cities keep the bikes, TVs, jewellery they steal, you take it and return it. This is no different. So screw the family's wishes and bitchiness on how it has 'emotional value' when they were not in the camp with it. It's a lie so they can cash in on it after. Taking it away will help matters, you'll prevent someone from stealing stolen property to make a profit, as is what they will be doing with the tablet. The kids don't deserve it, hell they should be happy that they aren't labelling their grandfather a thief instead of a survivor. The family has absolutely no legitimate claim to the tablet. [QUOTE=wraithcat;36182838]Blame it on western media to be honest. The absolutely sheer amount of deamonisations germans get to this day from ww2. Most movies depict them as absolute monsters or utterly ruthless at best. And there's absolutely massive amounts of it everyhwere. Now imagine that you know your grandfather was in there at that time and you're constantly reminded of it. In a lot of ways similar to what sometimes happens in the US where whites are constantly reminded how they were slavers and similar. It creates a certain guilt complex that's really hard to get past.[/QUOTE] I never kept slaves, gassed Jews or hunted Indians. I have no guilt over the actions of others. My great grandfather was a soldier at Stalingrad, his brother was in the SS. Should I feel guilty for any of the Russians who were killed or Jewish people found by my family members? No.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;36182838]Blame it on western media to be honest. The absolutely sheer amount of deamonisations germans get to this day from ww2. Most movies depict them as absolute monsters or utterly ruthless at best. And there's absolutely massive amounts of it everyhwere. Now imagine that you know your grandfather was in there at that time and you're constantly reminded of it. In a lot of ways similar to what sometimes happens in the US where whites are constantly reminded how they were slavers and similar. It creates a certain guilt complex that's really hard to get past.[/QUOTE] History is written by the victor. Well, in the case of American slavers, I'm pretty sure they were the definition of evil. Selling and buying human life like a dog ([del]Ave, true to Davis[/del]). I would expect nothing less from that geographic region in the western hemisphere.

Victor is a fucking ASSHOLE. Never liked him in that Wolverine movie...

[QUOTE=certified;36182989]History is written by the victor. Well, in the case of American slavers, I'm pretty sure they were the definition of evil. Selling and buying human life like a dog ([del]Ave, true to Davis[/del]). I would expect nothing less from that geographic region in the western hemisphere.[/QUOTE] Evil? I very much doubt it. Keep in mind they considered those other people to not be on their own level. From our point of view - that is evil. From their point of view? Not really. Or western hemisphere? Slavery has existed and exists in some way or other in every single culture on Earth. From Asia to Europe to Africa. And if it was not pure slavery it was usually instutions quite similar to them. You have to keep in mind that our society is vastly vastly different to societies even a century removed and we still get some forms of slavery creeping up. EDIT This doesn't imply I condone slavery in any way (I don't and saying this just to make sure not to start a flamewar). I just want to point out that doing what is normal in a certain age doesn't make you necessarily evil. It merely makes you normal.

[QUOTE=wraithcat;36183119]Evil? I very much doubt it. Keep in mind they considered those other people to not be on their own level. From our point of view - that is evil. From their point of view? Not really. Or western hemisphere? Slavery has existed and exists in some way or other in every single culture on Earth. From Asia to Europe to Africa. And if it was not pure slavery it was usually instutions quite similar to them. You have to keep in mind that our society is vastly vastly different to societies even a century removed and we still get some forms of slavery creeping up.[/QUOTE] Well, I was kinda implying this specific region here ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America[/URL]) where the people still support the idea of slavery to this day.

Well they can go visit it in the museum can't they. It's pretty selfish to keep an artifact all to yourselves.

[QUOTE=certified;36183141]Well, I was kinda implying this specific region here ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America[/URL]) where the people still support the idea of slavery in a quite evil manner.[/QUOTE] I'd have quite some trouble classying them as evil - unless someone there directly took enjoyment from causing as much misery as possible. (obviously loads of similar people existed and those you could call evil) but the majority? The notion of slavery is evil to us but look at it from their viewpoint. You'd call them evil and they'd ask you why. This of course doesn't make slavery good. It remains bad, but evil is a very dangerous word. And I'd personally say that you are evil only if you intentionally cause suffering among others, because you enjoy causing them misery.

[QUOTE=certified;36182989]History is written by the victor. Well, in the case of American slavers, I'm pretty sure they were the definition of evil. Selling and buying human life like a dog ([del]Ave, true to Davis[/del]). I would expect nothing less from that geographic region in the western hemisphere.[/QUOTE] You have to think of that the mindset was that they weren't people. Go back to 400 BC and you'll see precisely the same justification from the ones we still look up to to this day. And remember, and that time Athen actually resembled a democracy

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;36183201]You have to think of that the mindset was that they weren't people. Go back to 400 BC and you'll see precisely the same justification from the ones we still look up to to this day. And remember, and that time Athen actually resembled a democracy[/QUOTE] Athens had a pretty strict slavery. Same goes for Sparta really. We just kinda idealise the greeks.

This reminds me of something. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjivnoTZb_M&feature=related[/media]

[QUOTE=wraithcat;36183218]Athens had a pretty strict slavery. Same goes for Sparta really. We just kinda idealise the greeks.[/QUOTE] That's what I'm saying - we're looking up to people that justified slavery, even today.

[QUOTE=certified;36183141]Well, I was kinda implying this specific region here ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America[/URL]) where the people still support the idea of slavery to this day.[/QUOTE] That is such bullshit. I have lived in the south my entire life and have never heard a single person support slavery. Good job on being able to maintain that much of an uninformed view of the south though, you must have had to really do no research at all.

One thing to ask is, how the hell did this guy get the thing to begin with. Auschwitz was in Poland, and this museum was in Germany.

[QUOTE=certified;36183141]Well, I was kinda implying this specific region here ([URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America[/URL]) where the people still support the idea of slavery to this day.[/QUOTE] that's fucking retarded and you've never been to the South if that's what you think. I haven't been there either, but at least I'm not accusing them of supporting slavery without knowing what it's like.

[QUOTE=certified;36183354]One thing to ask is, how the hell did this guy get the thing to begin with. Auschwitz was in Poland, and this museum was in Germany.[/QUOTE] They don't know. But cosnidering he had it in Auschwitch with him, it's probable he got it before.

why not just give it to the museum and have them include a blurb about its role through the holocaust? a personal story would probably get a lot of people interested in it while there, and make it retain its meaning for the family

Draw a penis on it and they'll let you keep it.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;36184093]why not just give it to the museum and have them include a blurb about its role through the holocaust? a personal story would probably get a lot of people interested in it while there, and make it retain its meaning for the family[/QUOTE] its an interesting little story but in all reality a jewish man stealing a piece of gold prolly isn't gonna fly in Germany.

[QUOTE=Raizo;36184180]Draw a penis on it and they'll let you keep it.[/QUOTE] Nah, they will take it and force you to pay such a huge fine for damaging an artifact.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;36184211]its an interesting little story but in all reality a jewish man stealing a piece of gold prolly isn't gonna fly in Germany.[/QUOTE] Why? I think the story would make it more interesting, just looking at a tiny golden tablet-thing would be boring as shit IMHO.

[QUOTE=Hans-Gunther 3.;36184373]Why? I think the story would make it more interesting, just looking at a tiny golden tablet-thing would be boring as shit IMHO.[/QUOTE] Looking at a tiny golden tablet that was once stolen by a jew doesn't make it any more exciting.

[QUOTE=Cone;36182379]it is a valuable artifact that was stolen. just because he was emotionally connected to it doesn't make it any less valuable to the people it originally belonged to, nor does it make whatever we could learn from studying it just go away. but that's not to say we should take it away from them now that they're connected to it; a good compromise would be to study it until everything about it is known, then to hand it back. since the person who original had it (and presumably looted it) is dead, taking it away from them isn't going to help matters.[/QUOTE] yeah well human life was valuable and 10 million (in just the holocaust) were stolen so I mean

It's a stolen item that was stolen from a museum. The family has absolutely no rights to it just because they're morally attached to it(and the only reason is because it's golden and they're jewish)

[QUOTE=Cone;36182379]taking it away from them isn't going to help matters.[/QUOTE] yes it will make sure it is treated with care and stored safely [editline]3rd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Clementine;36184448]yeah well human life was valuable and 10 million (in just the holocaust) were stolen so I mean[/QUOTE] thats bullshit, that artifact could be lost forever if it is not treated carefully just because he was in the holocaust gives him no right to hold on to a 3200years old [I]artifact which he also stole[/I]

[QUOTE=-nesto-;36184211]its an interesting little story but in all reality a jewish man stealing a piece of gold prolly isn't gonna fly in Germany.[/QUOTE] i'd say that being brought through the holocaust is a significant part of the historic experience of the object itself, and don't see why it shouldn't be included. i doubt very much that just because a jewish individual looted it means that it shouldn't be included, that's ridiculous. it's not like they're going to paint them as heinous criminals for taking it.

I'll actually be willing to give something of emotional attachment to a museum. Now it'll be there forever for all to see.