• White couple have car blocked, and are attacked by ten black youths - called "cracker" "White Whore"
    235 replies, posted
I find it appropriate that sluggo posted this story.
[QUOTE=benwaddi;42599876]The number is not that high, I can't find the study they directly linked to but a book they sourced sources the FBI and has this which has a higher black on white than white on black violent crime rate by 4.4%. [URL="http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvius94.pdf"]Page 53[/URL] Page 57 is what I think they sourced in the book, again difficult to confirm based on a small excerpt. [url]http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cvus08.pdf[/url] Thats the 2008, violence was more prevalent by whites against black but completed violence and robbery were higher the other way. Multiple offenders is a complete blow out with fewer than 10 whites committing crimes on blacks (still came to 0.0%). There was some truth in the number (It was based on one statistic under violent crime; without injury :suicide:) but the numbers are far more equal both in the older study and the modern on (excluding multiple offenders) so the hate crime numbers [I]might[/I] still be cocked. Fuck, I just spent longer on that than they did.[/QUOTE] There's a simple smell test for this kind of thing: If a study seems to support a stereotype of a marginalized group (Disproportionally thuggish black people in this case), it's generally crap. There's a huge cottage industry devoted to catering to the prejudices of bigots of every stripe, from class to sex to race.
this is a bit of an old post in the thread, but [QUOTE=Wizards Court;42592191]have you considered that maybe its because it happens less often? especially since you have a lot more white people in the US than other ethnicities. [url]http://www.fbi.gov/sandiego/press-releases/2011/fbi-releases-2010-hate-crime-statistics[/url] [QUOTE]Of the 6,008 known offenders, [B]58.6 percent were white and 18.4 percent were black.[/B] For 12.0 percent, the race was unknown, and the remaining known offenders were of other races.[/QUOTE] reading this topic you get the idea that being white is as bad as being a roma in kosovo or something.[/QUOTE] that's actually an argument for a disproportionately high amount of hate crimes being committed by blacks. the statistics posted are for san diego, and in san diego, [QUOTE]The racial makeup of San Diego was [B]58.9% White, 6.7% African American[/B], 0.6% Native American, 15.9% Asian (5.9% Filipino, 2.7% Chinese, 2.5% Vietnamese, 1.3% Indian, 1.0% Korean, 0.7% Japanese, 0.4% Laotian, 0.3% Cambodian, 0.1% Thai). 0.5% Pacific Islander, 12.3% from other races, and 5.1% from two or more races.[/QUOTE] [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego#Demographics[/url] i don't believe in institutional racism against whites, just pointing out that the statistic court posted is actually a bad one to use if you're trying to argue that hate crimes are less prevalent amongst blacks. and, of course, black-on-white hate crimes are still ultimately the result of institutional racism in the past, due to feelings of persecution and desperation, and the feeling of a need to lash out at something when the causes of one's problems are immaterial and difficult to overcome. [B]not to suggest that it's justified, but it's completely understandable from an empathetic standpoint[/B], and one needs to attack this issue as a problem of [I]human beings overall[/I], not just x group or y group. it's actually a fairly common problem where one uses some form of bigotry against others as a scapegoat for destitution. the problem here and everywhere else is that violence is not a good answer to the question, and the people that end up becoming the victims might not be responsible at all.
[QUOTE=joes33431;42600566]and, of course, black-on-white hate crimes are still ultimately the result of institutional racism in the past, due to feelings of persecution and desperation, and the feeling of a need to lash out at something when the causes of one's problems are immaterial and difficult to overcome. [B]not to suggest that it's justified, but it's completely understandable from an empathetic standpoint[/B], and one needs to attack this issue as a problem of [I]human beings overall[/I], not just x group or y group.[/QUOTE] Wow, or maybe they're just racist fucks who became racist fucks like every other racist. There's no ifs, ands, or buts.
[QUOTE=katbug;42602601]Wow, or maybe they're just racist fucks who became racist fucks like every other racist. There's no ifs, ands, or buts.[/QUOTE] or maybe most if not all racists are racists because they were misled by poverty, culture, manufactured crises, gullibility in the face of extremist media, bad experiences that led them to irrational conclusions, other factors in their lives and upbringing, or otherwise family members that were led to be racist by one of the aforementioned (if not them, then the people who came before them and so on). the refusal to understand the mentalities of people with socially-unacceptable beliefs (without using the understanding as a justification for their ideals and behavior) is one of the barriers preventing us from resolving issues of bigotry abroad.
[QUOTE=joes33431;42602688]or maybe most if not all racists are racists because they were misled by poverty, culture, manufactured crises, gullibility in the face of extremist media, bad experiences that led them to irrational conclusions, other factors in their lives and upbringing, or otherwise family members that were led to be racist by one of the aforementioned (if not them, then the people who came before them and so on). the refusal to understand the mentalities of socially-regressive people (without using the understanding as a justification for their ideals and behavior) is one of the barriers preventing us from resolving issues of bigotry abroad.[/QUOTE] Every racist ever can have an empathetic background. There isn't even really a reason to mention it at all.
[QUOTE=katbug;42602698]Every racist ever can have an empathetic background. There isn't even really a reason to mention it at all.[/QUOTE] the point of empathizing with one's background is so that you can understand the factors that led to it. we know that racism was mostly cultural in the past, but what perpetuates it? poverty, for one. the perpetuation of racism by idiot parents is another. those are real things that we can actually do something about. you can't fight racism, because racism is an idea, but you can fight the things that cause, support, normalize, and institutionalize it. keep in mind that racists are still people, and even if they have terrible mindsets, there are reasons for those mindsets being there, and treating them like sub-humans is only going to enforce a persecution complex.
[QUOTE=joes33431;42602732]the point of empathizing with one's background is so that you can understand the factors that led to it. we know that racism was mostly cultural in the past, but what perpetuates it? poverty, for one. the perpetuation of racism by idiot parents is another. those are real things that we can actually do something about. you can't fight racism, because racism is an idea, but you can fight the things that cause, support, normalize, and institutionalize it. keep in mind that racists are still people, and even if they have terrible mindsets, there are reasons for those mindsets being there, and treating them like sub-humans is only going to enforce a persecution complex.[/QUOTE] I don't know, but i'm assuming the reason for this attack is that some black people perceive all white people as racists who want to put them down. What does this change? We can't go in a re-educate all perceived racists. In a way I agree with you, but you can't use this to shift blame. You also can't really take direct actions to change the mind of someone raised a certain way their entire life. That has to be something they do on their own. You don't want to treat anyone like their subhuman, but you don't want to empathize with them to the point where you blame the victim, or anyone else but the perpetrator. They are responsible for their own actions, and need to be seem as such. The same as any murderer. Should a KKK member be excused in a lynching because they were just raised that way?
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42602916']I don't know, but i'm assuming the reason for this attack is that some black people perceive all white people as racists who want to put them down.[/QUOTE] That's a baseless worthless assumption and you shouldn't knowingly propagate unfounded beliefs as that's an extremely common propaganda tactic. People remember what they hear more than how they hear it.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42603005]That's a baseless worthless assumption and you shouldn't knowingly propagate unfounded beliefs as that's an extremely common propaganda tactic. People remember what they hear more than how they hear it.[/QUOTE] Can you provide a better explanation? I said the [B]some[/B] black people believe that all white people are racists who are working to hold them down. This is a belief commonly stated in rhetoric of allot of black leaders and community figures and is largely propagated within said communities. I did not state this as the absolute reason for the attack, but it seems most likely to me given the racial slurs used. It is not unfounded.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42603026']Can you provide a better explanation? I said the [B]some[/B] black people believe that all white people are racists who are working to hold them down. This is a belief commonly stated in rhetoric of allot of black leaders and community figures and is largely propagated within said communities. I did not state this as the absolute reason for the attack, but it seems most likely to me given the racial slurs used. It is not unfounded.[/QUOTE] it's unfounded in this specific case. saying "it's not absolute" doesn't excuse that you're deliberately bring it up and proposing it for this case. I can't give a better explanation because there is no basis with with to form an explanation on.
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42603072]it's unfounded in this specific case. saying "it's not absolute" doesn't excuse that you're deliberately bring it up and proposing it for this case. I can't give a better explanation because there is no basis with with to form an explanation on.[/QUOTE] You see a black man being lynched in the deep south by a mob of men in white hoods shouting racial slurs. There motives can pretty easily be guessed. You see this happen, just after months of rhetoric following a black oppression message in the media and leaders within the community making statements about racist white killers and the system hating black people, and you can probably assume that's the reason for racism against white people. Neither of those two are absolute, both a very reasonable assumptions.
not at all a valid comparison, kkk has an obvious modus operandi that this case lacks
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42603153]not at all a valid comparison, kkk has an obvious modus operandi that this case lacks[/QUOTE] I said men in white hoods, not KKK members. You just made a baseless assumption by your own logic. In a way you are right though, KKK are racist, but is anyone denying these people are (aside from Jeep-eep and SigmaLambda)? You would not be able to guess the exact motive for that lynching, just like this case, but if there had been flaring tempers and rhetoric about a specific issue recently, it could be with reasonable accuracy that that issue was the cause, just like with this case.
*white hoods *lynching *mob *deep south *black target all line up with kkk *mob *beating *theft *brake checking car *northeast *white target line up with absolutely nothing I'm aware of
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42603218]*white hoods *lynching *mob *deep south *black target all line up with kkk *mob *beating *theft *brake checking car *northeast *white target line up with absolutely nothing I'm aware of[/QUOTE] read the rest of my post, I was kinda joking there. You do have though: *mob *beating *theft *breaking car *northeast *white target *all black perpetrators *racial slurs *during times of racial tension Not quite as much evidence as with the KKK, but quite all of evidence all the same as to a motive. For now we really don't know, but for the argument I was making a reasonable guess.
I think it's far more reasonable that they were retaliating for being honked at (as much of a gross overreaction as it is) I would exclude racial tension simply based on this [QUOTE]A neighbor said he’s seen no racial tension in the area. But “it’s different” near the Kings Plaza mall. “It’s not just a black and white thing. It’s stupid teenagers thinking they can do whatever they want,” the neighbor said.[/QUOTE] The slurs, while racist in themselves, don't point to motive. Could easily have been a method of dehumanizing and disgracing their victims
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;42603305]I think it's far more reasonable that they were retaliating for being honked at (as much of a gross overreaction as it is) I would exclude racial tension simply based on this The slurs, while racist in themselves, don't point to motive. Could easily have been a method of dehumanizing and disgracing their victims[/QUOTE] Weren't they honked at because they surrounded his car? Seems like a racist random attack to me.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42602916']I don't know, but i'm assuming the reason for this attack is that some black people perceive all white people as racists who want to put them down. What does this change? We can't go in a re-educate all perceived racists. In a way I agree with you, but you can't use this to shift blame.[/quote] i don't care about blame, i care about understanding, and how we can shape our actions in the future using the utility of said understanding. [QUOTE]You also can't really take direct actions to change the mind of someone raised a certain way their entire life. That has to be something they do on their own. You don't want to treat anyone like their subhuman, but you don't want to empathize with them to the point where you blame the victim, or anyone else but the perpetrator.[/quote] you can't blame a white person for being beaten up by a racist black person, but you can advocate for action to provide said community with economic aid so that the cycle of destitution (and the racism sprouting from it) does not continue. [QUOTE]They are responsible for their own actions, and need to be seem as such. The same as any murderer. Should a KKK member be excused in a lynching because they were just raised that way?[/QUOTE] they shouldn't be excused, but to what extent can you blame a person for acting on something that they've been indoctrinated into? they don't choose what their parents spoon-feed to them, they were taught all their lives that a certain action was right and that a certain action was wrong. i'd say that a KKK member convicted of lynching should be rehabilitated at least or imprisoned at most, without being culturally demonized, because the demonization of racist individuals, while completely well-intentioned and founded on reasonable bases, just gives people reason to say 'm-muh white genocide'. you don't need to make a monster out of a group or an idea just to get the point across that their beliefs and behaviors are not okay.
[QUOTE=joes33431;42603535]i don't care about blame, i care about understanding, and how we can shape our actions in the future using the utility of said understanding. you can't blame a white person for being beaten up by a racist black person, but you can advocate for action to provide said community with economic aid so that the cycle of destitution (and the racism sprouting from it) does not continue. they shouldn't be excused, but to what extent can you blame a person for acting on something that they've been indoctrinated into? they don't choose what their parents spoon-feed to them, they were taught all their lives that a certain action was right and that a certain action was wrong. i'd say that a KKK member convicted of lynching should be rehabilitated at least or imprisoned at most, without being culturally demonized, because the demonization of racist individuals, while completely well-intentioned and founded on reasonable bases, just gives people reason to say 'm-muh white genocide'. you don't need to make a monster out of a group or an idea just to get the point across that their beliefs and behaviors are not okay.[/QUOTE] I agree with many of your points The reason I initially disagreed was I thought you were saying "lol, black people have a past history of being treated like lessers, therefore their actions are entirely justified". My bad.
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