[QUOTE=NecroTitan;28088584]Not true,
A corrections center with no inherent "Rehabilitation" is rehabilitating in its own right. I.E. I got busted stealing. I spent 5 years in jail. Jail sucks and now I'm butthurt. I have no desire to go back to jail. I am afraid of stealing.
Works.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;28088877]The threat of public humiliation is a far greater deterrent then many prisons.[/QUOTE]
America has a 10 times higher reincarceration rate than Finnland.
Per 100,000 people:
America has 715 prisoners
Finland has 71
Finnland's prisons focus on rehabilitation and reintegration, rather than punishment.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;28088877]The threat of public humiliation is a far greater deterrent then many prisons.[/QUOTE]
You're also creating resentment and mental harm. Which does even more unnecessary damage.
[QUOTE=LittleDogX;28089004]I see no problem with the sign on the neck. It's not like the sign was lying. He stole $800. That's what the sign said. That's what he did. Even if the sign wasn't there, he still stole $800. The big deal is that now people know that he did it, but who is at fault in that situation? The store owner? No. He is the one that stole the money. He is the one that got caught doing it. I'm not saying that a person has to forever live with a sign saying "I stole" if they did, but I don't think you should be able to sue someone for telling other people that he stole money. If I went to where he lived, and told everyone in his new town that he stole $800, does that mean he could sue me too?
Also, the usage of "false imprisonment" here is stupid as he was taking him to the police center. He didn't lock him in his basement for 3 weeks. I know that charge was dropped, but it's still stupid it was even brought up in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Isolation from peers does some of the greatest harm to people.
No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.
The boss was a ass but the theif was also a ass too.
They both lose.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28088453]This guy actually profited from committing a crime? This is bullshit.[/QUOTE]
That's a really bad way to put it.
Public Humiliation as a punishment is so WW2. (and what use would it have in this particular case? Scare the public into not stealing from his company?)
Besides this borders vigilantism, he should have just called the police and let them handle it.
I have no sympathy for the boss, yet the thief shouldn't have stolen in the first place.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28088507]Shouldn't have paraded him around town.
Replace the prisons with rehab centers. If they're committing crime, there's something internally "wrong" with them that should be fixed. Prisons do nothing, [i]nothing[/i], except attempt to get revenge and their only deterrent to crime lies in scare tactics.[/QUOTE]
Good luck if you ever tried to get elected with those views. While I understand where you're coming from, all it will take is one guy to get back into society and kill someone after their "treatment" to invalidate your entire philosophy. Everyone would say if they were locked up in a prison, they wouldn't be able to get back into society and kill/rape people, which is true.
Though I would agree with your stance as far as smaller crimes like this one goes. IMO you can take those chances with thieves, but not with murderers.
[QUOTE=NecroTitan;28088584]Not true,
A corrections center with no inherent "Rehabilitation" is rehabilitating in its own right. I.E. I got busted stealing. I spent 5 years in jail. Jail sucks and now I'm butthurt. I have no desire to go back to jail. I am afraid of stealing.
Works.[/QUOTE]
Except it doesn't. All that happens is deviance amplification, they come out of prison and can't find a job as no one trusts a convict. Society also puts them down labelling them as a criminal and dis-trusting them and then bam they now accept their master status as a criminal and offend again.
Prison doesn't work at all, ironically attempts to control it make it worse.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]America has a 10 times higher reincarceration rate than Finnland.
Per 100,000 people:
America has 715 prisoners
Finland has 71
[/QUOTE]
Yeah I'm not all that sure that rehabilitation in the US would change that. The US is designed as a society about getting on top, and that's a whole different problem.
[QUOTE=Trogdon;28091022]Yeah I'm not all that sure that rehabilitation in the US would change that. The US is designed as a society about getting on top, and that's a whole different problem.[/QUOTE]
The US is a prime example of a goal being emphasised as socially acceptable yet no distinction given as to how to obtain it.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]*people who commit crimes aren't liable for it and responsible*[/QUOTE]
Are you fucking kidding me?
If you commit a crime from jay walking to stabbing someone in the eye, you take fucking responsibility for what you did. It is your damn fault, it isn't your: (quote from you)
"His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do"
Sir, you're fucking insane.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28088507]Shouldn't have paraded him around town.
Replace the prisons with rehab centers. If they're committing crime, there's something internally "wrong" with them that should be fixed. Prisons do nothing, [i]nothing[/i], except attempt to get revenge and their only deterrent to crime lies in scare tactics.[/QUOTE]
Prisons are a deterrent.
And they keep criminals off the streets.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]
No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/QUOTE]
As others have said, prison is a fine deterrent for many.
Also, studies have shown that around 40% of violent offenders have Antisocial Personality Disorder---meaning they lack empathy & impulse control. Personality disorders are incurable. What do we do with these folks?
A mixture of both punishment (extended time) & rehabilitation seems best.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]America has a 10 times higher reincarceration rate than Finnland.
Per 100,000 people:
America has 715 prisoners
Finland has 71
Finnland's prisons focus on rehabilitation and reintegration, rather than punishment.[/quote]
So... a system that focusses more on imprisonment imprisons people more often? Who knew!
[quote]You're also creating resentment and mental harm. Which does even more unnecessary damage.
Isolation from peers does some of the greatest harm to people.[/quote]
Oh those poor poor criminals, what about their human rights? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE RAPISTS?
[quote]No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/QUOTE]
Nope pretty sure the criminal's responsible for the crime you bleeding-heart fuck.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/QUOTE]
This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on facepunch, and I now honestly have no respect for your intelligence.
[QUOTE=Jallen;28091555]This is the stupidest thing I have ever read on facepunch, and I now honestly have no respect for your intelligence.[/QUOTE]
I've heard quite a few sociology professors argue this, actually, his statement is far from insane.
[QUOTE=Canuhearme?;28091799]I've heard quite a few sociology professors argue this, actually, his statement is far from insane.[/QUOTE]
Except it is, because it simply denies the existence of
a. Fault
b. Responsibility
These are concepts which society is fundamentally reliable on.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28088507]Shouldn't have paraded him around town.
Replace the prisons with rehab centers. If they're committing crime, there's something internally "wrong" with them that should be fixed. Prisons do nothing, [i]nothing[/i], except attempt to get revenge and their only deterrent to crime lies in scare tactics.[/QUOTE]
I stole a toothbrush from a store because I had no money on me.
Does that mean there is something internally wrong with me because I wanted to brush my teeth but couldn't afford a toothbrush?
What you are saying is that being poor is a physical/mental disability.
A toothbrush is like, a buck.
[QUOTE=LittleDogX;28089004]I see no problem with the sign on the neck. It's not like the sign was lying. He stole $800. That's what the sign said. That's what he did. Even if the sign wasn't there, he still stole $800. The big deal is that now people know that he did it, but who is at fault in that situation? The store owner? No. He is the one that stole the money. He is the one that got caught doing it. I'm not saying that a person has to forever live with a sign saying "I stole" if they did, but I don't think you should be able to sue someone for telling other people that he stole money. If I went to where he lived, and told everyone in his new town that he stole $800, does that mean he could sue me too?
Also, the usage of "false imprisonment" here is stupid as he was taking him to the police center. He didn't lock him in his basement for 3 weeks. I know that charge was dropped, but it's still stupid it was even brought up in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Innocent until convicted by a court of law, at the time of that parade he was legally an innocent man.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;28091472]So... a system that focusses more on imprisonment imprisons people more often? Who knew!
Oh those poor poor criminals, what about their human rights? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE RAPISTS?
Nope pretty sure the criminal's responsible for the crime you bleeding-heart fuck.[/QUOTE]
i totally agree, human rights shouldn't be rights. they should be privileges given to people who don't commit a crime society finds heinous.
[editline]16th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jallen;28091861]Except it is, because it simply denies the existence of
a. Fault
b. Responsibility
These are concepts which society is fundamentally reliable on.[/QUOTE]
^ knows more than multiple a sociology professors.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;28091472]So... a system that focusses more on imprisonment imprisons people more often? Who knew!
Oh those poor poor criminals, what about their human rights? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE RAPISTS?
Nope pretty sure the criminal's responsible for the crime you bleeding-heart fuck.[/QUOTE]
Hey guess what dick human rights apply to everyone not just the people you want them to.
learn to not be an asshole thanks.
Owner had no right to do what he did.
If you perform a citizen's arrest it's your duty to contact the police immediately, anything else is illegal and rightly so.
[QUOTE=Jallen;28091861]Except it is, because it simply denies the existence of
a. Fault
b. Responsibility
These are concepts which society is fundamentally reliable on.[/QUOTE]
I THINK IT'S THIS WAY.
NO I DON'T WANT TO LEARN ABOUT ALTERNATIVE POSSIBILITIES EVEN IF THEY ARE FROM LEARNED MEN. :downsbravo:
:doh:
[QUOTE=Kybalt;28092596]
^ knows more than multiple a sociology professors.[/QUOTE]
If their opinions were so credible, they'd be taught in schools and justice systems everywhere would evolve to make the world a new and better place.
I bet for every sociolagist who thinks it, that there's at least one who would disagree.
Besides it's not even a sociology topic, it's philosophical in that it's questioning the existence of responsibility and fault, no man is qualified to have a higher worth of their philisophical views than another.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28092674]Owner had no right to do what he did.
If you perform a citizen's arrest it's your duty to contact the police immediately, anything else is illegal and rightly so.[/QUOTE]
Can't perform a citizen's arrest for that I don't think. I looked at it a bit before, it seems more to be allowed for situations where the criminal is going to harm someone or something. Not exactly sure where this falls. But I do agree.
[QUOTE=Jallen;28092939]If their opinions were so credible, they'd be taught in schools and justice systems everywhere would evolve to make the world a new and better place.
I bet for every sociolagist who thinks it, that there's at least one who would disagree.
Besides it's not even a sociology topic, it's philosophical in that it's questioning the existence of responsibility and fault, no man is qualified to have a higher worth of their philisophical views than another.[/QUOTE]
^ doesn't know what sociology is
[quote]
"If their opinions were so credible, they'd be taught in schools and justice systems everywhere would evolve to make the world a new and better place."[/quote]
hahahahhahahaha you are so naive.
[QUOTE=Killerelf12;28092955]Can't perform a citizen's arrest for that I don't think. I looked at it a bit before, it seems more to be allowed for situations where the criminal is going to harm someone or something. Not exactly sure where this falls. But I do agree.[/QUOTE]
Either way, he had a responsibility to get actual law enforcement involved as soon as possible. Even if he wasn't technically allowed to arrest this guy, if he acted responsibly I wouldn't have a problem with it
jallen why dont you post instead of rating me?
The british,canadian and american justice systems are the stupidest in the world.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;28093495]jallen why dont you post instead of rating me?[/QUOTE]
Sociology is the study of human social activity, the statement rubs made,
[quote]No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/quote]
Is really just stating that humans are just functions for which with a given input over time, a certain output will occur.
i.e. normal kid has abusive parents, becomes abnormally violent as a result
This isn't exactly new groundbreaking stuff here, it's obvious that we will act in a certain way (outputs) based on our genetics, diet, upbringing etc. (inputs).
What rubs' statement also suggests though is that fault and responsibility are things which don't really exist / are just the result of human minds. But he states definitively that "No one is responsible for anything they do" which is completely wrong based on our definition of responsibility.
It is more of a philisophical issue than sociological one of whether responsibility and fault are really "there" and it doesn't really solve anything.
I didn't respond because I don't want a debate about something which to me is just silly. Responsibility and fault are hardwired in to every non-impared human on earth, you can't get rid of them, but if you did it would be chaos.
thief is epic troll
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