[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]
No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/QUOTE]
Do you actually believe this bullshit?
I personally don't care that this moron is 'crying' over getting sued, he should have known better than to tie his arms behind his back and publicly humiliate him when he was just trying to get the money he earned. I would have sued him, and I don't think anybody else would have 'forgiven him' either.
[editline]16th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Noble;28094457]Do you actually believe this bullshit?[/QUOTE]
It's not bullshit, but I don't agree with the way he's putting it.
Stay classy Britain, keep hurting the victims and defending the guilty.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;28095158]Stay classy Britain, keep hurting the victims and defending the guilty.[/QUOTE]
Actually if you read the article you will see that two guilty parties were punished here
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;28091303]Are you fucking kidding me?
If you commit a crime from jay walking to stabbing someone in the eye, you take fucking responsibility for what you did. It is your damn fault, it isn't your: (quote from you)
"His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do"
Sir, you're fucking insane.[/QUOTE]
And yet Darrow used it during his defence of Leopold and Loeb succesfully. Although they didn't get off they didn't swing either.
[editline]17th February 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=PEn1s lol;28093764]The british,canadian and american justice systems are the stupidest in the world.[/QUOTE]
That is the most ignorant statement i've ever heard. We are [I]lucky[/I] to have such fair and unbiased courts.
[QUOTE=Mr.Dounut;28091303]Are you fucking kidding me?
If you commit a crime from jay walking to stabbing someone in the eye, you take fucking responsibility for what you did. It is your damn fault, it isn't your: (quote from you)
"His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do"
Sir, you're fucking insane.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism]Determinalism[/url]
[QUOTE=Jallen;28091371]Prisons are a deterrent.
And they keep criminals off the streets.[/QUOTE]
They're a deterrent. They aren't a good one.
[QUOTE=Jallen;28091861]Except it is, because it simply denies the existence of
a. Fault
b. Responsibility
These are concepts which society is fundamentally reliable on.[/QUOTE]
Fault is non-existent. Responsibility, however, doesn't lie with fault. If I see someone drop their books, I feel obligated to help them. Why? Because I'd want someone to do the same for me.
You need to understand empathy.
Also, people strive for self fulfillment and I think it's common sense that if people simply knocked the world into chaos (I.E. killing eachother simply because of a lack of "fault"), there would be an awful lack of self fulfillment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not an [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethical_egoism]Ethical Egoist[/url] (I'm not learned in [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism]consequentialism[/url]). I'm simply stating the arguments.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;28091472]So... a system that focusses more on imprisonment imprisons people more often? Who knew!
Oh those poor poor criminals, what about their human rights? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE RAPISTS?
Nope pretty sure the criminal's responsible for the crime you bleeding-heart fuck.[/QUOTE]
There is no point in Human Rights if you selectively enforce them. It defeats the purpose.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]
No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/QUOTE]
Well I'm gonna go rob a bank then. Not my fault, it's just my personality which is everyone elses fault :downs:
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28096949]Well I'm gonna go rob a bank then. Not my fault, it's just my personality which is everyone elses fault :downs:[/QUOTE]
[quote]Also, people strive for self fulfillment and I think it's common sense that if people simply knocked the world into chaos (I.E. killing eachother simply because of a lack of "fault"), there would be an awful lack of self fulfillment.[/quote]
No, you're not going to do that, because it would prevent any other achievement in the future.
And maybe you're empathetic.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28097078]No, you're not going to do that, because it would prevent any other achievement in the future.[/QUOTE]
But according to your ideals, nothing should happen to me, because it isn't my fault. What a load of horse shit, just because one psychologist says it doesn't mean it's instantly truth.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28097130]But according to your ideals, nothing should happen to me, because it isn't my fault. What a load of horse shit, just because one psychologist says it doesn't mean it's instantly truth.[/QUOTE]
According to my ideals, you should be rehabilitated so that others and myself can achieve self fulfillment and our own goals. You want what you want? Then contribute to the peace.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28097230]According to my ideals, you should be rehabilitated so that others and myself can achieve self fulfillment and our own goals. You want what you want? Then contribute to the peace.[/QUOTE]
Law is supposed to keep the peace, offering no consequence will not keep the peace. Yes people should be rehabilitated, but a level of punishment should still be included. You are far underestimating the human mind.
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;28088445]He's a thief.. what lost earnings?[/QUOTE]
Just because he's a thief, it doesn't mean he have no jobs or the feeling of humiliation.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28097290]Law is supposed to keep the peace, offering no consequence will not keep the peace. Yes people should be rehabilitated, but a level of punishment should still be included. You are far underestimating the human mind.[/QUOTE]
I should have specified that I'm not saying they should be sent to a psychologist's office on a weekly basis while living out of their home.
They should be kept in a facility until a certain time where they can be deemed worthy of returning to society.
As people attempt to cheat the evaluation that deems them worthy, it will only evolve to accommodate their forced attempts at leaving.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28089343]America has a 10 times higher reincarceration rate than Finnland.
Per 100,000 people:
America has 715 prisoners
Finland has 71
Finnland's prisons focus on rehabilitation and reintegration, rather than punishment.
You're also creating resentment and mental harm. Which does even more unnecessary damage.
Isolation from peers does some of the greatest harm to people.
No one is at fault for the crime. His actions were dictated by his personality and his personality was shaped by outside influences. No one is responsible for anything they do, so revenge also has no sense in that you're seeking retribution from someone elses fault, when there is none.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I`d laugh but you seem to actually believe this.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;28097421]I should have specified that I'm not saying they should be sent to a psychologist's office on a weekly basis while living out of their home.
They should be kept in a facility until a certain time where they can be deemed worthy of returning to society.
As people attempt to cheat the evaluation that deems them worthy, it will only evolve to accommodate their forced attempts at leaving.[/QUOTE]
What's to stop someone from just going along with it to get out early?
[QUOTE=Bllasae;28097448]Wow, I`d laugh but you seem to actually believe this.[/QUOTE]
i'd laugh but you're a stereotypical "tough on crime!!1" republican so i'm already laughing.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28097494]What's to stop someone from just going along with it to get out early?[/QUOTE]
[quote]As people attempt to cheat the evaluation that deems them worthy, it will only evolve to accommodate their forced attempts at leaving.[/quote]
You say I underestimate the human mind, but you only think of the criminals.
If someone tries to "go along with it", those in charge will change it to prevent that from happening.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;28097494]What's to stop someone from just going along with it to get out early?[/QUOTE]
generally it's hard to fool three or four professional psychologists who went to school for this shit.
Some people are physically incapable of caring about the rights and well-being of others, and there's no fixing that.
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;28088445]He's a thief.. what lost earnings?[/QUOTE]
Loss of earnings for being fired for stealing the £800 from the company he was working for.
While the actual parading him around town thing was dumb, if I was in the boss's position I would have fought it in court not just settled.
I think a judge would have thrown it out.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;28097557]Some people are physically incapable of caring about the rights and well-being of others, and there's no fixing that.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a geneticist, but from what I've learned (Which is little in terms of genetics, so take this with a pinch of salt), people do have genes that [i]influence[/i] their personality, but don't say they're going to be self serving, rather, they suggest that they could be more susceptible to being so.
So there isn't someone who is will be completely incapable of coping with society, what fails is the psychologist's/therapist's knowledge on how to fix them.
And in knowing this, we could potentially improve our ability to fix dysfunctional members of society.
Time to rob my boss.
[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;28091472]
Oh those poor poor criminals, what about their human rights? WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE RAPISTS?
[/QUOTE]
Not all criminals are rapists, a system which treats all criminals as the same is flawed. As is locking up people for 70 years for committing fraud but that is another matter.
As for the human rights, a prisoner is still a human and as long as that fact is true they deserve the rights that every other human is afforded. Don't like it? Go live in a country that doesn't give a shit about anyone's human rights and locks people up for no reason.
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