Executive Order Amendment allows Secretary of Defense to recall retired military personnel - Polidicks

We haven't declared war in some 50 years; that hasn't stopped us from getting into huge conflicts over and over. Trump can get us in as much trouble as he likes at his sole discretion. Please put the 'don't worry Congress will stop him' point directly into the trash bin so the conversation can be overall more productive. Trump isn't the sort to formally declare war anyway. If anything, he'd declare war through [B]twitter[/B]. The only way Congress stops the President from ordering troops to move and operations to start is by impeaching him and removing him from office.

I will take my family and leave this country for good before I go back to the military, [I]especially[/I] under the Mad King. I have no intention whatsoever of being forcefully conscripted to fight whatever insane war he is brewing. I'll be damned if I let that happen. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52803340]at least in the uk reserve you're still paid + its really easy to get an army pension. in the US the state seems to treat its vets like trash [editline]21st October 2017[/editline] also why is trump/his sinister cabal doing this? it sounds like something you'd do during a war or something[/QUOTE] War is the ultimate expression of the power Trump is so desperate for the world to see him wielding. He has craved it since day one. Every major policy decision he's made has dragged us closer to the brink of it. We are careening towards war to comfort the fragile ego of a whiny, thin-skinned narcissist.

If I was an ex-US serviceman I would be feeling betrayed right now. The guys did their duty.

[QUOTE=Flicky;52802309]I don't feel good about this.[/QUOTE] awww fuck. I just know we're going to be invading Congo to secure their natural resources and using "protecting democracy" and helping the government fight the various armed groups. I just hope we can actually stabilize the area instead of wasting all those lives for nothing like Iraq

Well, good luck with that...?

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52803658]Lets put it this way. If a vet ever decided to sue the US over violation of contract (due to how shit the VA is, amongst other things), not only would they win, they'd win so hard that everyone in the military could just leave. They'd win so hard that the US would effectively never be able to make a contract with a soldier until they fixed the VA. That's how fucked the system is.[/QUOTE] But would they? Assuming what you're saying isn't exaggerated that sounds like a completely broken system

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52803598] I will take my family leave this country for good before I go back to the military, especially under the Mad King. I have no intention whatsoever of being forcefully conscripted to fight whatever insane war he is brewing. I'll be damned if I let that happen. [/QUOTE] As a probable outcome I wouldn't doubt that you would leave the country. Months ago I thought of that possibility.

[QUOTE=Howlthrug;52803757]As a probable outcome I wouldn't doubt that you would leave the country. Months ago I thought of that possibility.[/QUOTE] I wish I could afford to move to a first world country

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52803598]I will take my family leave this country for good before I go back to the military, [I]especially[/I] under the Mad King. I have no intention whatsoever of being forcefully conscripted to fight whatever insane war he is brewing. I'll be damned if I let that happen. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] War is the ultimate expression of the power Trump is so desperate for the world to see him wielding. He has craved it since day one. Every major policy decision he's made has dragged us closer to the brink of it. We are careening towards war to comfort the fragile ego of a whiny, thin-skinned narcissist.[/QUOTE] How would you even leave? Where would you go?

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52803807]I've seen first hand just how fucked up the VA is, not just from the patient perspective, but from the healthcare provider perspective either. We've had to return patients to the VA because pacemakers weren't functioning, we've seen massive infections. I mean I could go on and on but in all reality the system is almost entirely broken. Its a system that, because of how federal hiring works, no matter how fucked up you are, you can't get fired. Seriously, unless you embezzle money from the organization, you're not getting fired at all. Nurse make up a bunch of shit for her report because she doesn't care? Nah, no repercussions. Doctor fucked up the surgery to fix you hand? Nah, no repercussions. The system is actively designed to protect those working for it, instead of those who need to use it.[/QUOTE] A large part of this is because healthcare is ridiculously understaffed right now. Some hospitals have hundreds of positions that need to be filled. Reuters had a recent article about this: [quote=Reuters]Nursing shortages have occurred in the past, but the current crisis is far worse. The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates there will be more than a million registered nurse openings by 2024, twice the rate seen in previous shortages... UAB Hospital in Birmingham, Alabama, has invested millions to attract nurses, but still has 300 jobs to fill. At times, nursing vacancy rates in some of its departments has hit 20 percent or higher... They haven’t closed beds, but have hired less experienced nurses, raised salaries and turned away at least one patient who would have been in its long term care program.[/quote] [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-healthcare-nursing/rpt-insight-short-on-staff-nursing-crisis-strains-u-s-hospitals-idUSL2N1MV06O]Source[/url] It's kind of ridiculous at this point and it's just going to get worse moving forward. It would have to take a nurse or doctor to literally murder a patient with a chainsaw to have them get fired. There simply isn't enough workers to go around anymore. [editline]20th October 2017[/editline] I should make a thread about this right now in fact, it's actually pretty important by itself and Reuters did a fantastic job with it.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52803969]Bear in mind, you can't sue the VA without the VA's permission as well, so you're fucked if/when something does happen. A close friend of mine got fucked when they did a shoulder repair on him, and when I say fucked I mean it got so infected that they amputated his arm. No compensation. No nothing. Cant sue, courts wouldn't even consider the case. Welcome to the VA. At least in a civilian healthcare setting, if someone fucks up you can file civil charges against them.[/QUOTE] Yeah, that only compounds the issue. The VA is a disgusting cyst on the face of our country and it breaks my heart that it is this way.

[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;52803881]How would you even leave? Where would you go?[/QUOTE] Reading more into the executive order, I believe that I might personally be exempt from it, but I am no less sickened at the powers it is granting or the implications of choosing to grant this power now, and stand fully by my statement. So, if I were to be included in [B]any[/B] expansion of forced conscription, I would see no choice but to move to join my family abroad. I will not rejoin the military under any circumstances, especially [I]these[/I] circumstances. As to how I would do that: I am a grown man with a passport, money in the bank, and enough education and experience to qualify for a long-term work visa. Anybody who wanted to stop me would have to put me in prison to do so. Beyond myself, I want you to stop, for a moment, and consider why this is so fucking terrifying [I]for the country[/I]. The core concept of this bill, allowing the Secretary of State to forcefully conscript military retirees, who have already served this country, while offering no legal recourse for the conscriptee, is sickening enough. Look at this bill in relationship to what its powers [I]mean[/I], however, and the [I]context[/I] of this bill in relation to Trump's rhetoric and policies. Donald Trump has been cryptically promising that "something big" is on the horizon. He has been isolating us from our allies and provoking our enemies, and calling for a tenfold increase to our nuclear armaments. He was been pushing for massive military budget increases. And now, he is establishing new powers of [B]forced military service.[/B] Finally, do not forget that Trump still has every established right to reinstate the draft, and his new [I]expansion[/I] of forced conscription powers spells out quite clearly that he is not afraid to flex this power. He could begin forcing anybody between the ages of eighteen and twenty five to go fight and die for his ego. Donald Trump appears to be mobilizing our country for war. Massive war, potentially. We have [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/corker-world-war-iii-donald-trump-white-house/index.html"]Republican Senators[/URL], members of Trump's own party, saying that he is dragging us towards World War Three. We have Trump's [I][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/tillerson-trump-moron/index.html"]own Secretary of State[/URL][/I] calling him a "moron" as a result of Trump's announced military plans. This is a scary time in our country. Trump must be removed from office before it's too late to prevent the chaos he is sowing from sprouting into something truly horrible.

[QUOTE=TheNerdPest14;52803881]How would you even leave? Where would you go?[/QUOTE] I'm not the person you were talking to, but Australia seems like a good candidate location. There doesn't seem to be that much crazy bullshit going on, and it seems like it's an English-speaking majority there. Only thing of note is the weather and the wildlife (if it's even that much of a threat) and things should be good.

[QUOTE=JerryAnderson;52804124]I'm not the person you were talking to, but Australia seems like a good candidate location. There doesn't seem to be that much crazy bullshit going on, and it seems like it's an English-speaking majority there. Only thing of note is the weather and the wildlife (if it's even that much of a threat) and things should be good.[/QUOTE] Our government is pretty shitty towards younger (and poor) people and housing is shit dicks expensive, I would say Australia is in a better place than the USA right now but it isn't sunshine and rainbows over here.

I don't even know where I'd go. I can't afford to move to another [I]state[/I], let alone another [I]country[/I]. I've considered Canada, but it's a distance. I've considered Australia, but it's expensive to even live there. I've considered Mexico since my chances of surviving probably increase, and I've considered the U.K. which is also extremely expensive. If Trump does start a war, and if Trump does reinstate The Draft (as BDA alluded to a few posts before mine) then I'm fucked. Either I stick my foot down the garbage disposal and pray like fuck, or I end up fighting in a retarded war for a retarded President for retarded reasons. This is not good. This is bad.

[QUOTE=Snapster;52802296][url=https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/20/air-force-recall-many-1-000-retired-pilots-address-serious-shortage/785344001/]Air Force will recall as many as 1,000 retired pilots to address serious shortage[/url][/QUOTE] Meanwhile the Air Force refuses to acknowledge that throwing more money at the problem won't fix it. Pilots want to be pilots, not paper pushers, and the airlines pay them more to do just that

pretty glad i have dual nationality and family to go to outside of america right now I've been wondering about the draft for a while and the second even one draft notice shows up im getting outta dodge.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52804107][B]Reading more into the executive order, I believe that I might personally be exempt from it,[/B] but I am no less sickened at the powers it is granting or the implications of choosing to grant this power now, and stand fully by my statement. So, if I were to be included in [B]any[/B] expansion of forced conscription, I would see no choice but to move to join my family abroad. I will not rejoin the military under any circumstances, especially [I]these[/I] circumstances. As to how I would do that: I am a grown man with a passport, money in the bank, and enough education and experience to qualify for a long-term work visa. Anybody who wanted to stop me would have to put me in prison to do so. Beyond myself, I want you to stop, for a moment, and consider why this is so fucking terrifying [I]for the country[/I]. The core concept of this bill, allowing the Secretary of State to forcefully conscript military retirees, who have already served this country, while offering no legal recourse for the conscriptee, is sickening enough. Look at this bill in relationship to what its powers [I]mean[/I], however, and the [I]context[/I] of this bill in relation to Trump's rhetoric and policies. Donald Trump has been cryptically promising that "something big" is on the horizon. He has been isolating us from our allies and provoking our enemies, and calling for a tenfold increase to our nuclear armaments. He was been pushing for massive military budget increases. And now, he is establishing new powers of [B]forced military service.[/B] Finally, do not forget that Trump still has every established right to reinstate the draft, and his new [I]expansion[/I] of forced conscription powers spells out quite clearly that he is not afraid to flex this power. He could begin forcing anybody between the ages of eighteen and twenty five to go fight and die for his ego. Donald Trump appears to be mobilizing our country for war. Massive war, potentially. We have [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/corker-world-war-iii-donald-trump-white-house/index.html"]Republican Senators[/URL], members of Trump's own party, saying that he is dragging us towards World War Three. We have Trump's [I][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/tillerson-trump-moron/index.html"]own Secretary of State[/URL][/I] calling him a "moron" as a result of Trump's announced military plans. This is a scary time in our country. Trump must be removed from office before it's too late to prevent the chaos he is sowing from sprouting into something truly horrible.[/QUOTE] That’s a shame. I’m sure we’ll be sorely missing an inexperienced cowardly med sep’d drone operator in the military. At any rate, no need to worry about this executive order since it only increases the amount of retired officers that can be recalled to active duty, around 1000 for each branch. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Quark:;52804229]I don't even know where I'd go. I can't afford to move to another [I]state[/I], let alone another [I]country[/I]. I've considered Canada, but it's a distance. I've considered Australia, but it's expensive to even live there. I've considered Mexico since my chances of surviving probably increase, and I've considered the U.K. which is also extremely expensive. If Trump does start a war, and if Trump does reinstate The Draft (as BDA alluded to a few posts before mine) then I'm fucked. [b]Either I stick my foot down the garbage disposal[/b] and pray like fuck, or I end up fighting in a retarded war for a retarded President for retarded reasons. This is not good. This is bad.[/QUOTE] Won't be necessary my friend for you - have ~bone spurs~

I'd be alright with a draft or conscription if it were to defend the US mainland, or the UK, or the French, or Europe, from an actual enemy on the ground, if we needed more people to do it. But when was the last time the US Military was used to fight on the US's behalf, honestly. And I mean the people of these countries or the US People, not the government's interests. The Military is being used to fight politician's wars. If you want to volunteer to fight for them, fine. But you shouldn't be forced to for that bollocks

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52804107]Reading more into the executive order, I believe that I might personally be exempt from it, but I am no less sickened at the powers it is granting or the implications of choosing to grant this power now, and stand fully by my statement. So, if I were to be included in [B]any[/B] expansion of forced conscription, I would see no choice but to move to join my family abroad. I will not rejoin the military under any circumstances, especially [I]these[/I] circumstances. As to how I would do that: I am a grown man with a passport, money in the bank, and enough education and experience to qualify for a long-term work visa. Anybody who wanted to stop me would have to put me in prison to do so. Beyond myself, I want you to stop, for a moment, and consider why this is so fucking terrifying [I]for the country[/I]. The core concept of this bill, allowing the Secretary of State to forcefully conscript military retirees, who have already served this country, while offering no legal recourse for the conscriptee, is sickening enough. Look at this bill in relationship to what its powers [I]mean[/I], however, and the [I]context[/I] of this bill in relation to Trump's rhetoric and policies. Donald Trump has been cryptically promising that "something big" is on the horizon. He has been isolating us from our allies and provoking our enemies, and calling for a tenfold increase to our nuclear armaments. He was been pushing for massive military budget increases. And now, he is establishing new powers of [B]forced military service.[/B] Finally, do not forget that Trump still has every established right to reinstate the draft, and his new [I]expansion[/I] of forced conscription powers spells out quite clearly that he is not afraid to flex this power. He could begin forcing anybody between the ages of eighteen and twenty five to go fight and die for his ego. Donald Trump appears to be mobilizing our country for war. Massive war, potentially. We have [URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/politics/corker-world-war-iii-donald-trump-white-house/index.html"]Republican Senators[/URL], members of Trump's own party, saying that he is dragging us towards World War Three. We have Trump's [I][URL="http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/tillerson-trump-moron/index.html"]own Secretary of State[/URL][/I] calling him a "moron" as a result of Trump's announced military plans. This is a scary time in our country. Trump must be removed from office before it's too late to prevent the chaos he is sowing from sprouting into something truly horrible.[/QUOTE] Did you not read your contact when you signed it? Were you completely unaware that you could be called back to service after your 8 years of active and IRR? This executive order didn't change anything, it just reinforced something that has been on the books for decades. The draft has still been in place, something to which most young male Americans received a nice little card in the mail from Uncle Sam after their 18th birthday that they were supposed to fill out. Stop shitting the bed over every stupid thing that Trump does He's an idiot, but everything you just outlined has been law long before he ever got in office. This executive order literally changes nothing for both prior service enlisted and the general public. The only people who have to worry are officers, but the types of contracts officers sign are quite different than Johnny PFC's.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52804540]Did you not read your contact when you signed it? Were you completely unaware that you could be called back to service after your 8 years of active and IRR? This executive order didn't change anything, it just reinforced something that has been on the books for decades. The draft has still been in place, something to which most young male Americans received a nice little card in the mail from Uncle Sam after their 18th birthday that they were supposed to fill out. Stop shitting the bed over every stupid thing that Trump does He's an idiot, but everything you just outlined has been law long before he ever got in office. This executive order literally changes nothing for both prior service enlisted and the general public. The only people who have to worry are officers, but the types of contracts officers sign are quite different than Johnny PFC's.[/QUOTE] You are incorrect. There is an eight year period on the reserves, but you could not be called upon [I]after[/I] your IRR time. BUT, to be able to recall any and all retired service members at any time is completely new. This EO does not only apply to officers, as you stated. It applies to all retired military personnel, across all branches, enlisted or officer alike. This EO is not "reinforcing" existing rights of re-conscription, it's massively expanding them. As a note, the state of emergency established by the original executive order, in response to 9/11, is [I]still active[/I], meaning that the terms of forced re-conscription outlined in this EO apply [I]right now.[/I] If I'm completely misunderstanding this, then please explain it for me. The summaries and explanations I am reading of this EO are all indicating a marked expansion of the powers of re-conscription. Beyond that, I am aware of the draft, and mentioned it in a previous post. I think it's an abominable concept, and am sickened by the thought that Trump, of all people, may reinstate it if the opportunity arises. His expansion of forced conscription powers tells me that doing so is not something he would bat an eye at. Given that all signs point towards our commander in chief dragging us in to a war, that opportunity may very well arise. In either circumstance, or under any other circumstances, I fully refuse to rejoin the military against my will. I will not be party to more pointless conflict. I will not lay down my life in support of Donald Trump's psychotic machinations, nor do I believe that anybody else should be forced to do so. If ever there comes a time when there is an attempt to forcefully conscript me, I will leave this country and not come back. That will have been the final straw. After a lifetime of vilification, marginalization, and struggle for daring to be born poor and unhealthy, for the president to demand that I now go give up the nice little life that I've managed to scrape together for [I]his[/I] benefit? That'd tell me exactly where I stand with this country. They'd have to lock me up to stop me from emigrating.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52804890]You are incorrect. There is an eight year period on the reserves, but to be able to recall any and all retired service members at any time is completely new. As a note, the state of emergency established by the original executive order, in response to 9/11, is [I]still active[/I], meaning that the terms of forced re-conscription outlined in this EO apply [I]right now.[/I] Furthermore, this EO does not only apply to officers, as you stated. It applies to all retired military personnel, across all branches, enlisted or officer alike. This EO is not "reinforcing" existing rights of re-conscription, it's massively expanding them. I am aware of the draft, and mentioned it in a previous post. I think it's an abominable concept, and am sickened by the thought that Trump, of all people, may reinstate it if the opportunity arises. His expansion of forced conscription powers tells me that doing so is not something he would bat an eye at. Given that all signs point towards our commander in chief dragging us in to a war, that opportunity may very well arise. In either circumstance, or under any other circumstances, I fully refuse to rejoin the military against my will. I will not be party to more pointless conflict. I will not lay down my life in support of Donald Trump's psychotic machinations, nor do I believe that anybody else should be forced to do so. If there is an attempt to forcefully conscript me, I will leave this country and not come back. That will have been the final straw. After a lifetime of vilification, marginalization, and struggle for daring to be born poor and unhealthy, for the president to demand that I now go give up the nice little life that I've managed to scrape together for [I]his[/I] benefit? That'd tell me exactly where I stand with this country. They'd have to lock me up to stop me from emigrating.[/QUOTE] I know that for some reason we have to keep him here as a contrarian voice, but youre really wasting your time responding to Tudd about something like this.

[QUOTE=No Party Hats;52804947]I know that for some reason we have to keep him here as a contrarian voice, but youre really wasting your time responding to Tudd about something like this.[/QUOTE] That's not Tudd lol

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52804951]That's not Tudd lol[/QUOTE] Wow I never noticed that, I see the 15ft high sadfrog and just assumed it was Tudd too. How many people have that avatar?

[QUOTE=_Maverick_;52805014]Wow I never noticed that, I see the 15ft high sadfrog and just assumed it was Tudd too. How many people have that avatar?[/QUOTE] Just Jimmema, but this isn't the appropriate thread to talk about it. Take it to the Forum Discussion Thread in GD if you'd like to continune, please.