BREAKING: French jets target ISIS in Raqqa - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Ricenchicken;49123256]Yes let's just continue to let ISIS perform terrorist acts around the world with no one fighting back against them... Innocent lives were already lost, and there will always be innocent lives lost during conflicts. But why let the bad guys live as they continue to kill more civilians of a nation?[/QUOTE] 129 innocents died in paris. How many innocents will die from your retaliation?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123267]129 innocents died in paris. How many innocents will die from your retaliation?[/QUOTE] Psst, the 129 killed in Paris weren't the only ones killed by ISIS you know

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123267]129 innocents died in paris. How many innocents will die from your retaliation?[/QUOTE] What about everyone else? what about the people who will continue to die if we stand by and let ISIS do whatever they want? Lets just all go down to the ISIS embassy and complain that we don't like what they're doing! Oh wait.

Hopefully it keeps going until dawn of the next day. Fuck that entire place up France.

[QUOTE=Snickerdoodle;49123292]Psst, the 129 killed in Paris weren't the only ones killed by ISIS you know[/QUOTE] You are trying to frame this as some kind of heroic lets kill ISIS thing. Its not. Its retaliation and revenge. If they were serious about fighting ISIS they would need to commit ground forces and put take and hold strategy in place. Bombing will bloody ISIS' nose but ultimately they can recruit more guys, rebuild and, upon pointing at the damage/dead civilians, say "The west did this to you"

I kinda feel like they might have prepared for this, anyone have any info on whether or not the bases were manned?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123267]129 innocents died in paris. How many innocents will die from your retaliation?[/QUOTE] I can't actually believe you are against France bombing the capital of ISIS, who gives a fuck about those innocents, France lost 129. I hope another 1000 ISIS sympathizers in Raqqa die.

[QUOTE=goon165;49123303]What about everyone else? what about the people who will continue to die if we stand by and let ISIS do whatever they want? Lets just all go down to the ISIS embassy and complain that we don't like what they're doing! Oh wait.[/QUOTE] The same rhetoric was used to justify invading Iraq. 160000 dead civilians later and the problem still isn't solved. Also see my point about boots on the ground + take and hold. Bombing them alone will not get rid of them, it never has and never will.

Fucking GIT UM

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123330]The same rhetoric was used to justify invading Iraq. 160000 dead civilians later and the problem still isn't solved. Also see my point about boots on the ground + take and hold. Bombing them alone will not get rid of them, it never has and never will.[/QUOTE] and there is nothing that says France won't do that, and personally, I wouldn't fuck with the french Military. Shit just look at the Foreign Legion, there's nothing that says they're not up to this on their resume.

[QUOTE=Cinnamonbun;49123328]I can't actually believe you are against France bombing the capital of ISIS, who gives a fuck about those innocents, France lost 129. I hope another 1000 ISIS sympathizers in Raqqa die.[/QUOTE] They're occupied. They just want to live. If getting pushed around by ISIS lets them live then they will do that. How the fuck can you think its ok to kill civilians jsut because they live in an enemy occupied town. Thats total war. Thats the very thing you criticize ISIS for doing.

[QUOTE=Ricenchicken;49123256]Yes let's just continue to let ISIS perform terrorist acts around the world with no one fighting back against them... Innocent lives were already lost, and there will always be innocent lives lost during conflicts. But why let the bad guys live as they continue to kill more civilians of a nation?[/QUOTE] because the bad guys aren't some call of duty enemy with a big flag above their heads people in here literally justifying the deaths of innocent civilians, unbelievable I wonder how many supporters of ISIS justify the deaths of innocents by saying that its to get at the bad guys

Collateral damage is going to happen, it sucks, but that's the way it is.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49123213]What else are you supposed to fucking do then? Just stand around and wait for ISIS to attack London? Berlin? Rome? Moscow? No, you don't, you use the technology and connections the great nations of this world has built up over the course of thousands of years to do one thing. Destroy these assholes so we can play with our smartphones and robots in peace. [editline]15th November 2015[/editline] This just wasn't a small assault on a magazine company, Paris was a big planned thing. 150 lives are gone, and hundreds more were injured. The high horse is dead, been dead since WWI. innocent civvies getting killed in the crossfire sucks balls always, but sometimes you can't help these things.[/QUOTE] I find that saying folks are on a high horse when talking about killing people is just as sickening. You're not on a high horse when you condemn violence. When we're put in these situations where violence is the simple and 'justifiable' path, we should keep in mind that it's an overall negative for humanity. What I find endearing about the modern military in the Western world is that they are professionals. Not conscripts, not recruited by ideology, not out of the will to conquer. They are tasked with the protection of their country's stability, and those of their allies based on treaties. Violence is wielded as an effective tool, and only used when believed necessary. We made it like this because we're striving for a world where violence is no longer needed. Where a military is a really effective taser instead of a gun. Holding onto these ideals, even at these times, should not be looked down on.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49123350]because the bad guys aren't some call of duty enemy with a big flag above their heads[/QUOTE] and that's partly the reason we're in this mess with really no other choices besides act or cover our ears and pretend nothing will happen and it will stay contained to that part of the world. and I think yesterday proved which one of those choices isn't the smart one.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123267]129 innocents died in paris. How many innocents will die from your retaliation?[/QUOTE] Less than those who will die through inaction.

[QUOTE=goon165;49123362]and that's partly the reason we're in this mess with really no other choices besides act or cover our ears and pretend nothing will happen and it will stay contained to that part of the world. and I think yesterday proved which one of those choices isn't the smart one.[/QUOTE] didn't intervention cause most of the problems that the middle east had in the past 3 decades or so was starting a war that killed 100-500,000 civilians the 'smart decision'

[QUOTE=goon165;49123362]and that's partly the reason we're in this mess with really no other choices besides act or cover our ears and pretend nothing will happen and it will stay contained to that part of the world. and I think yesterday proved which one of those choices isn't the smart one.[/QUOTE] You're presenting a flase diachatomy. You're framing it like there are only 2 options. Bombing + war or "cover our ears and pretend nothing will happen" We have other options. Explore other ways of break ISIS down, maybe make it splinter, support a nearby regime to stabilise the region, maybe improve intelligence or how it was acted on. The 911 terrorists, michael adebolajo and the charlie hebdo assholes were all known to intelligence, intelligence acted too late though. Maybe tackle what is causing extremism in the first place, bombing the fuck outta cities isn't going to stop people wanting to become extremists.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49123350]because the bad guys aren't some call of duty enemy with a big flag above their heads people in here literally justifying the deaths of innocent civilians, unbelievable I wonder how many supporters of ISIS justify the deaths of innocents by saying that its to get at the bad guys[/QUOTE] There will ALWAYS be deaths in conflicts like I said. Something has to be done against ISIS. Saying France should have done nothing is basically saying "hey ISIS, we won't fight back, continue to do what you want". Letting ISIS do what they want with no one fighting back is the dumbest thing to do.

[QUOTE=Ricenchicken;49123389]There will ALWAYS be deaths in conflicts like I said. Something has to be done against ISIS. Saying France should have done nothing is basically saying "hey ISIS, we won't fight back, continue to do what you want". Letting ISIS do what they want with no one fighting back is the dumbest thing to do.[/QUOTE] He's living in some fantasy land.

[QUOTE=Lium;49123376]Less than those who will die through inaction.[/QUOTE] Proof for this? The Iraq war + aftermath killed 160000 civilians. Not to mention displaced people, destroyed property, torture, rapes and kidnappings, lasting sectarian violence, the spawning of ISIS

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49123391]He's living in some fantasy land.[/QUOTE] interesting how taking a critical eye to bombing is 'living in some fantasy land' but fine, let's just drop more bombs, that [B][I]definitely has worked in the past hasn't it[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49123395]interesting how taking a critical eye to bombing is 'living in some fantasy land' but fine, let's just drop more bombs, that [B][I]definitely has worked in the past hasn't it[/I][/B][/QUOTE] Whelp, tons of innocents died during WW2 to stop evil.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49123395]interesting how taking a critical eye to bombing is 'living in some fantasy land' but fine, let's just drop more bombs, that [B][I]definitely has worked in the past hasn't it[/I][/B][/QUOTE] Maybe they just needed MORE bombs. The person who suggesting destroying and killing people as a solution to destroying and killing people is the one living in the fantasy land imo

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123392]Proof for this? The Iraq war + aftermath killed 160000 civilians. Not to mention displaced people, destroyed property, torture, rapes and kidnappings, lasting sectarian violence, the spawning of ISIS[/QUOTE] The amount of people Saddam Hussein killed is estimated anywhere from half a million to a million people.

[QUOTE=bisousbisous;49122806]Hurray for more murder and killing![/QUOTE] I really want to hear your alternative instead of killing them. Should we go in and instead of bombing them equip all our soldiers with Tasers and rubber bullets and non-lethally arrest all of ISIS and give them lenient sentences so they can hopefully one day be rehabilitated back into society? Should we just provide no retaliation, wait until a few more tragedies, and let captain hindsight guide the way? Should we pull a Sudetenland and give them all the land they want and hope that satiates their blood lust? Please! Give us an alternative!

[QUOTE=agentfazexx;49123400]Whelp, tons of innocents died during WW2 to stop a necessary evil.[/QUOTE] The US only got involved when they were attacked. Most casualities happened on the eastern front between USSR and Nazis. USSR weren't good guys, ultimately the killed an estimated 62 million people to hitlers 11. The brits and french were imperialistic. The US wanted to be imperialistic. Even after the war the french kept on trying to get its colonies. The Nazis were bad guys but the war wasn't good vs evil.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123402]Maybe they just needed MORE bombs. The person who suggesting destroying and killing people as a solution to destroying and killing people is the one living in the fantasy land imo[/QUOTE] clearly the problem was not bombing them enough, I mean [B][I]historically, that's worked a bunch, surely?[/I][/B]

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;49123385]You're presenting a flase diachatomy. You're framing it like there are only 2 options. Bombing + war or "cover our ears and pretend nothing will happen" We have other options. Explore other ways of break ISIS down, maybe make it splinter, support a nearby regime to stabilise the region, maybe improve intelligence or how it was acted on. The 911 terrorists, michael adebolajo and the charlie hebdo assholes were all known to intelligence, intelligence acted too late though. Maybe tackle what is causing extremism in the first place, bombing the fuck outta cities isn't going to stop people wanting to become extremists.[/QUOTE] But the effectiveness of these other options is governed almost entirely on our willingness to act and right now with probably the exception of France everyone else is at a standstill, The situation is a complete mess of factions with differing levels of crazy and objectives and acting is going to involve at least airstrikes and special forces operations which are already happening which is essentially just going to war. I'm not saying we should just start carpet bombing the desert that would be retarded however the noise is coming whether anyone likes it or not and we should have every hand on deck for it instead of just floundering around and trying to retreat into pre-world war II isolationism. And France was the first on call when Libya happened, even going so far as to drop concrete training bombs on targets for lack of ready ordinance, so I expect the french response to be, as it is right now, pretty decisive.

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;49123421]clearly the problem was not bombing them enough, I mean [B][I]historically, that's worked a bunch, surely?[/I][/B][/QUOTE] It worked for America against Japan. It saved countless of civilian lives all over Asia too, in places and countries still occupied by the Japanese.