US House passes resolution to sanction Russia. General Dempsey says US will respond militarily if Cr
105 replies, posted
And now we're one sabre-rattle closer to a pointless war
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;44218960]And now we're one sabre-rattle closer to a pointless war[/QUOTE]
A country aggressively taking advantage of another country's civil unrest to have a vital warm water port into the Black Sea through military means sounds like something would require more than just economic sanctions.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44218601']Selective Service. In order to receive basically any government benefits, student loans, whatever, by law you need to register at age 18 if you're male. If there is a draft, then a portion of the population will be selected for service (hence the phrasing "selective service"). It's a lottery. If you're unlucky enough to be disabled you get an exemption and we've historically exempted students and rich people who can pay for a proxy or pay to be on a charitable assignment overseas. Our volunteers have numbered enough that a draft hasn't been 'necessary' since Vietnam. Enough poor people in need of a stable career and structure in their life to fill the ranks of warm bodies to absorb bullets.[/QUOTE]
You're making it seem like the only people who voluntarily enlist in the military is poor people who would otherwise be homeless and orderless. Don't get me wrong, the military offers people like that a decent life and a chance to learn useful skills, but not everybody who volunteers to join is a poor guy with nothing else to do.
[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;44218658]You don't know what you're talking about, do you?[/QUOTE]
apparently enough for a joke to rustle many jimmies.
[editline]12th March 2014[/editline]
seriously if you think that somebody could seriously think a draft could happen in modern times then you're thinking too seriously
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;44218980]A country aggressively taking advantage of another country's civil unrest to have a vital warm water port into the Black Sea through military means sounds like something would require more than just economic sanctions.[/QUOTE]
I'm truly against this shit escalating. But if things do escalate, Putin may get his wish of seeing the USSR back. But it'll be like a dickish genie or a monkey's paw. Instead of the U.S.S.R., they'll be the US's R.
That's another one of those things I just had to use because it may never be relevant again. Sorry about that.
[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;44218999]apparently enough for a joke to rustle many jimmies.
[editline]12th March 2014[/editline]
seriously if you think that somebody could seriously think a draft could happen in modern times then you're thinking too seriously[/QUOTE]
Don't be naive. It is so unlikely that you can call it impossible, but it really isn't. On the off chance that Putin wasn't just being an opportunist for a land grab of strategic importance, an all out war between the US and Russia would almost certainly have a draft.
[QUOTE='[Seed Eater];44218601']Selective Service. In order to receive basically any government benefits, student loans, whatever, by law you need to register at age 18 if you're male. If there is a draft, then a portion of the population will be selected for service (hence the phrasing "selective service"). It's a lottery. If you're unlucky enough to be disabled you get an exemption and we've historically exempted students and rich people who can pay for a proxy or pay to be on a charitable assignment overseas. Our volunteers have numbered enough that a draft hasn't been 'necessary' since Vietnam. [b]Enough poor people in need of a stable career and structure in their life to fill the ranks of warm bodies to absorb bullets.[/b][/QUOTE]
Yeah, lookit all those societal scum.
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/US_3rd_Infantry_regiment_drill_team.jpg[/img_thumb]
Honestly, do you seek any chance to put the military on blast?
[QUOTE=frozensoda;44219047]Don't be naive. It is so unlikely that you can call it impossible, but it really isn't. On the off chance that Putin wasn't just being an opportunist for a land grab of strategic importance, an all out war between the US and Russia would almost certainly have a draft.[/QUOTE]
a modern war isn't fought with numbers alone. I doubt either side would be hard-pressed into issuing a draft to fill non-existent trenches to send out non-existent waves of men into machine gun fire.
I'm almost certain that the draft won't be coming back unless we have a major homeland invasion.
[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;44219122]a modern war isn't fought with numbers alone. I doubt either side would be hard-pressed into issuing a draft to fill non-existent trenches to send out non-existent waves of men into machine gun fire.[/QUOTE]
Last time an all-volunteer military went out against a conscript military didn't turn out so well for the conscripted military
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_War[/url]
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;44219069]Yeah, lookit all those societal scum.
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/US_3rd_Infantry_regiment_drill_team.jpg[/img_thumb]
Honestly, do you seek any chance to put the military on blast?[/QUOTE]
Uh I don't think he was accusing poor people of being scum dude, like that was the opposite of what he said. Relax.
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;44218406]Drafting is still a thing in the US?[/QUOTE]
Selective Service is not exclusive to the US. In Peru, once you turn 18, male or female, you got one month to aproach your nearest military base and sign up to the Reserve.
There were talks, last year, about bringing back the Conscription system, good thing nothing came through.
[QUOTE=Blazyd;44218987]You're making it seem like the only people who voluntarily enlist in the military is poor people who would otherwise be homeless and orderless. Don't get me wrong, the military offers people like that a decent life and a chance to learn useful skills, but not everybody who volunteers to join is a poor guy with nothing else to do.[/QUOTE]
There's usually a reason why army recruiters target poor areas, and why the saying "unemployment is the friend of the colonel" exists.
[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;44219122]a modern war isn't fought with numbers alone. I doubt either side would be hard-pressed into issuing a draft to fill non-existent trenches to send out non-existent waves of men into machine gun fire.[/QUOTE]
Indeed. Information, mobile warfare and air superiority are the things now. That is 'till the nuke gloves come off.
[QUOTE=LoganIsAwesome;44218603]Another great conflict could mean a shit ton of industry of the US starting up so I really wouldn't say the US would collapse.[/QUOTE]
You're talking about a total war, which is not what we have in mind here...
A total war would reasonably include the use of nuclear weapons.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;44219142]Last time an all-volunteer military went out against a conscript military didn't turn out so well for the conscripted military
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_War[/url][/QUOTE]
I was already convinced by Starship Troopers(the book) that a high tech volunteer military is the best choice. The other aspects, not so much
Isn't the draft card supposed to come in the mail? If so i never got it :v:
Military action? I doubt anything will resolve in combat, but I hope for the best.
[QUOTE=TheAlkaline;44218212]Does this mean that the nuclear warheads will start flying pretty much soon if the tension continues on?[/QUOTE]
This isn't a video game
[QUOTE=lavacano;44218554]Technically yes, we still have draft rules in place. They're actually so old that though men are required to register, women aren't even [i]allowed[/i] to register for it.
However, it's gone unused for so long that the people in charge don't even remember it's there, and thus don't update the rules or shut it down or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if half the US male population never bothered updating their address after registering on their 18th.[/QUOTE]
Well its a bit more complicated than that in UNITED STATES. GRAHL v. SAME. WANGERIN v. SAME (two cases). KRAMER v. SAME. GRAUBARD v. SAME. The draft was tied to the right to vote, so if there is a draft any male who has not registered is a felon, and loses voting rights.
[QUOTE=MuTAnT;44219167]Uh I don't think he was accusing poor people of being scum dude, like that was the opposite of what he said. Relax.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't change the fact he was being a pretty big bigot by generalizing people in the military as vein "poor and needing structure". What he said made him sound like a fool.
[QUOTE=TheAlkaline;44218212]Does this mean that the nuclear warheads will start flying pretty much soon if the tension continues on?[/QUOTE]
I'm a bit late, but hell no they won't. Between all the arms treaties, various regulations and the gradual realization of just how fucked all of humanity could and likely would be after a nuclear war, no one wants to so much as look at a nuke funny nowadays.
The only nations that even come remotely close to threatening nuclear weapon use nowadays are either surrounded entirely by nations that hate them and want them gone (various Islamic nations, I'm not even remotely sure which ones so I'll avoid guessing names), or completely and utterly insane in general (North Korea, in spades).
Anyone with some common sense won't touch nuclear weaponry for the purposes of all-out war nowadays, and for good reason. It's pretty much all just for flaunting your nation's power and/or showing how dangerous your nation could be if pissed off, rather than being a considerable option like in the past.
Currently, it'd take nothing short of either the biggest, most horrific war yet seen by man or a full-on zombie apocalypse to get anyone to actually use their nuclear stockpiles for any reason. They're too powerful, too dangerous, hideously damaging to living things and the environment via both explosive force and radiation, a perfect way to get your nation ground into irradiated dust by its enemies in response to firing, and just plain not a good idea to ever use.
The main reason we even still have the damn things is because if a nation gets rids of their nukes, their neighbors and/or enemies probably won't want to, which just leaves the nation who got rid of their nukes screwed over completely. Even though we don't want to and almost certainly won't use nuclear weapons, we still have to keep them around for both posturing and preventative measures.
[B]TL;DR:[/B] Nope, no nukes will fly unless shit gets so hideously bad that literally everyone is trying to kill everyone else as fast as possible, which likely will not happen. Also, most nations are so rightfully scared of both nuclear weapons' nasty effects and the backlash from using them that they won't touch the damn things unless they have literally no other options. Nuclear weapons are pretty much just explosive bling for big/strong nations to prove they're tough and not to be fucked with, nowadays.
[QUOTE=Blazyd;44218987]You're making it seem like the only people who voluntarily enlist in the military is poor people who would otherwise be homeless and orderless. Don't get me wrong, the military offers people like that a decent life and a chance to learn useful skills, but not everybody who volunteers to join is a poor guy with nothing else to do.[/QUOTE]
no but i went to a thoroughly white trash school and sizable amount of them listed "drop out and join the military" as their long term goal
didn't have the heart to tell them that the military doesn't take highschool dropouts anymore
[video=youtube;IhnUgAaea4M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M[/video]
I knew it!
[QUOTE=StupidUsername67;44218118]see you guys in the draft line[/QUOTE]
I have Major Depression and General Anxiety Disorder! Also ADHD and OCD and ADD and any other mental health issue :zoid:
[QUOTE=plokoon9619;44220364]I have Major Depression and General Anxiety Disorder! Also ADHD and OCD and ADD and any other mental health issue :zoid:[/QUOTE]
So long as you don't have flat feet
*stamp*
[sp]name the movie, get a prize[/sp]
[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;44219732]It doesn't change the fact he was being a pretty big bigot by generalizing people in the military as vein "poor and needing structure". What he said made him sound like a fool.[/QUOTE]
Historically that has been the case, though. And indeed until Iraq that was what the primary demographic of US enlisted personnel was. That is factually the case until 2003, until "non disadvantaged" persons became the primary target demographic, focusing on median income young people such as college students and suburbanites. The 9/11 attacks and the wave of patriotism that came with it attracted a larger volunteer pool, bringing- for the first time in American history- a large selection of median income people. A fair chunk of the military even today is made up of people who enlisted out of financial benefit and steady employment. Before the volunteer rush post-9/11 the target demographic was the lower-income, economically vulnerable young man. Drafts proportionally take in more of the largest class than of the smaller for obvious reasons- that class being the poor. In fights like Vietnam the avenues to avoid being drafted included stable employment, pursuing education, or overseas assignment with a religious or charity organization- things that are/were generally reserved for the economically sound and well-off. Notably every recession sees an influx in military enlistment, a lower job count sees more new recruits.
From 1949 to 1972, the prime factor motivating youth to enlist was to achieve education or learn a skilled trade they otherwise would not have access to. Of American troops in Iraq killed until 2007, "...nearly three quarters of those killed in Iraq came from towns where the per capita income was below the national average. More than half came from towns where the percentage of people living in poverty topped the national average." (2007 report)
According to a 1977 report, "learn new skills," "earn extra money," and "expand my career opportunities" were selected by over half of respondents in a poll of volunteer enlisted reservists. The same study tells that more immediate economic incentives are the most sought after by volunteer enlisted reservists.
By no means is calling the ranks of the military of the "lower class" an insult, it's simply a statistical fact.
[QUOTE=plokoon9619;44220364]I have Major Depression and General Anxiety Disorder! Also ADHD and OCD and ADD and any other mental health issue :zoid:[/QUOTE]
Bad news: in case of full scale mobilization, it will be ignored. Extremely secret military emergency tactics: meatshields.
For anyone worrying about nuclear war:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction[/url]
tl;dr it won't happen because no leader is stupid enough to blow someone else up if it means they also get blown up or the outcome of the fight is "everyone is dead".
[QUOTE=Coyoteze;44220493]For anyone worrying about nuclear war:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction[/url]
tl;dr it won't happen because no leader is stupid enough to blow someone else up if it means they also get blown up or the outcome of the fight is "everyone is dead".[/QUOTE]
Putin.
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