[QUOTE=Billiam;27012936]The UN is not the commanding authority in this situation, because clearly the mandate was pretty goddamn unsuccessful due to the fact that it contributed to severe global and regional instability. And clearly the Balfour declaration did not satisfy the Arab Palestinians in the region. [/quote]
I never said the Mandate was a good thing for them, they don't like occupation like anyone else. Obviously the Balfour Declaration was shit too. They thought they were getting the entire area, Britain wants to give some to the Jews, they get less land. Not for any rational reason other than they got less of the territory they thought was theirs.
[quote]Secondly, there were plenty of Palestinian Jews who fed into the violence starting the conflict as well.
Thirdly, the population of Palestine is not able to control the ideals of a small group of radicals. Bombing the fuck out of towns only empowers radicals.[/quote]
Yeah I know, there is plenty that can be done in the police force and curbing that kind of thinking before it gets started. Relations get better between the two, although they have ethnic differences they live on good terms, attacking their neighbour is not seen as glorified any more. Also the only bombing the fuck out of I can think of is Cast Lead, most other stuff has been surgical strikes or Police action in the West Bank.
[quote]Israel will neither leave or let the Palestinians have their own nation on their own terms. Nothing is forcing them or even motivating Israel to work towards the peace process, so radicalism is expected.[/QUOTE]
Why won't they? They are a democratic nation and the will of the people dictates the will of the country. The people are easily swayed and if they don't care about the Palestinians having their own state, it happens. Also I think the US is pushing for peace if you haven't noticed. They need incentive obviously, why would you do it for nothing?
[editline]28th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Moose;27013014]doesnt mean shit basically[/QUOTE]
Yeah but you're going to have a hard time claiming it to be Illegal to the UN if they were the ones who did it.
[QUOTE=doggelito;27011952]Imagine if the Chinese minority in Thailand claimed a huge chunk of land as their "ancestral homeland" and demanded independence, then started firing rockets into the rest of Thailand etc. It's the same thing.[/QUOTE]
Image if the British got tired of the Jews and were too lazy to deal with antisemitism, so they sent an assload of Jews to inhabited lands full of people who really don't want them there. Then they declare independence regardless of the results of a UN partition and fully understanding that the surrounding countries would be extremely violent about the matter. And then all of this eventually leads to a global crisis.
[editline]27th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Devodiere;27013277]Why won't they? They are a democratic nation and the will of the people dictates the will of the country. The people are easily swayed and if they don't care about the Palestinians having their own state, it happens.[/QUOTE]
But they do care if the Palestinians have their own country. There are plenty of people in Israel benefiting from West bank expansionism and water resources boarding it. And there are plenty of people who don't believe that the existing government can crack down on rocket brigades.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;27013277]Also I think the US is pushing for peace if you haven't noticed. They need incentive obviously, why would you do it for nothing?[/QUOTE]
The US peace process between Israel and Palestine is a joke, they sanction talks, but they can't solve the issues. So pretty much the only incentive Israel has is Palestinian happiness, which I imagine they care very little about.
[QUOTE=Billiam;27013306]But they do care if the Palestinians have their own country. There are plenty of people in Israel benefiting from West bank expansionism and water resources boarding it. And there are plenty of people who don't believe that the existing government can crack down on rocket brigades.[/quote]
The settlements aren't really anything other than nationalistic land expansion by a few who hold a balance of power in government. They don't benefit, they just want it. Also they have the human empathy benefit of seeing their fellow men as equals and wishing for them to live as peacefully as they do. Also if that doesn't work, it costs a lot of money to train and police the area for them. If they can do it on their own, all the better.
[quote]The US peace process between Israel and Palestine is a joke, they sanction talks, but they can't solve the issues. So pretty much the only incentive Israel has is Palestinian happiness, which I imagine they care very little about.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they don't have too many incentives really, that's why people provide them. I think I read a story about the US selling some Fighter Jets in exchange for continued negotiations. There's plenty of diplomatic incentives they have so that's not really a problem.
[QUOTE=Swilly;27008612]That still dosen't give the Jewish Ethnicity a right to control them.....Palestinian people refers to the fact they once lived in a country called Palestine that was there before Israel was created.[/QUOTE]
Oh really? I've never heard of no country called Palestine Please, educate me about this country, I'd be glad to learn more.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;27016741]Oh really? I've never heard of no country called Palestine Please, educate me about this country, I'd be glad to learn more.[/QUOTE]
no country called prussia exists therefore one never existed
[QUOTE=Starpluck;27008759]That's a really biased unsourced opinion piece you got there. Initially I was going to call the writer an idiot, but the UN investigation: Goldstone Report (led by a Jew, interestingly, Israel claims he's antisemitic) came after that article. The Report debunked most of the claims the article mentioned (Hamas using human sheilds, Hanas firing from schools/UN hospitals e.g)
You should read it one day.
Also, here's a relevant article I found [url]http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1870087,00.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Except there's a mountain of criticism from varying sources over the Goldstone Report, accusing it of an anti-Israel bias. Goldstone's dismissal of alleged Hamas crimes (e.g. shelling civilians/storing weapons in mosques) was subsequently attacked by NGOs and responding Israeli evidence proving the opposite. It is also accused of failing to take into account other factors such as the lead-up to the war, and a civilian reluctance to discuss Hamas crimes possibly due to fears of reprisals. Frankly, if you think the Goldstone Report is the conclusive evidence that Hamas is good and Israel is evil, you're wrong.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;27012039]more like if the kurdish minority in iraq, turkey, syria, and iran claimed kurdistan as their own and started firing rockets into the rest of iraq[/QUOTE]
No, because the Kurds have been there pretty much forever as opposed to the so called Palestinians. They are foreign invaders, nothing else.
[editline]28th December 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Prismatex;27017006]no country called prussia exists therefore one never existed[/QUOTE]
The only strictly Palestinian state since the confederation of the Philistine city states only came into existence during the 80s due to the machinations of the Arab nationalist organisation we all know as the PLO.
[QUOTE=Prismatex;27017006]no country called prussia exists therefore one never existed[/QUOTE]
I never said Prussia existed, while he on the other hand said Palestine existed.
It would also be quite different if there really was a country called Palestine that the Jews invaded and conquered, pro-Palestinians love to say that the Jews came to a country called Palestine and slowly took it away from the Palestinians, while the truth is not quite so.
By saying there was a country called Palestine, Swilly is just proving that he is absolutely ignorant about the whole conflict and its history.
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