Photos published of alleged U.S. atrocities in Afghanistan
246 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Clark21;28777402]funny how these guys are getting charged yet bush and blair get away with everything
the US lead the invasions and has way more troops over there than any other country.[/QUOTE]
The US isn't forcing anyone to join in and even though they probably do have the most troops over there, I think you're just pulling info out of your ass
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;28777500]The US isn't forcing anyone to join in and even though they probably do have the most troops over there, I think you're just pulling info out of your ass[/QUOTE]
The US did lead the invasions and they do have more troops over there than any other country. Explain how anything what i have said is wrong.
You know what they say, "He who fights monsters, will eventually become one himself"
Granted, this isn't the case with everyone, and it isn't affecting JUST the USA or militaries of the world.
First off, let me say how I feel nothing but disgust at the actions of these soldiers.
That being said, I am surprised at how many of our members are acting, as this is a sad part of war, but a common one.
Civilians die in wars, no matter how efficient your military is, people are going to die obviously. You have to understand a couple of things too about this war. Obviously the American army is fighting guerilla insurgents who use the civilian population to hide. Much like Vietnam, the ability to know friend from foe is difficult and it creates a level of paranoia. Also in combination with these soldiers being young men who are submerged into a different cultural and lingual environment, accidents are waiting to happen.
With the above factors the soldiers also become desensitized as they cannot fully connect with the civilians and with the unknown fear of anyone of them being an enemy, you quickly lose a regard for their well being. These cases are famous because they do occur rarely and with the mass number of military personal, you are bound to get people who snap under the above factors.
This applies to any nation, and there are plenty examples of other militaries mistreating civilians too. I see people criticize the American military, which is fine since theyre allowed an opinion, but what annoys me is that theyre criticizing them over things that are out of their control.
How do you go about fighting a war against merged guerrilla civilian forces without killing civilians?
How do you go about a war without having people break and commit war crimes?
How do you predict how a person will act under combat when practice can never truly simulate it?
Every military has issues as previously stated before, the difference here is that we are at a point where technology has reached a peak all over the world where we can see everything on the battlefield. This is one of the first wars that has this technology available to everyone, and being it is a major one all eyes are witnessing things that have been occurring for a while.
The real question, what war are you fighting?
Terrorists? You make more new terrorists than you kill.
Shoot one civ? Others see and side with terrorists because americans aren't much better. It's an infinite circle which can be finished only when all people in that region are dead.
I mean really, these "good guys" bomb the shit out of civilians, kill kids from an apache and do all that shit, I would hate them too and join the "bad guys" because in the end they're both as bad.
I don't see why retarded armies can't just leave the plac
Again, youre viewing it in an extremely simplistic way. Yes soldiers accidentally kill civilians (and some nut jobs do it on purpose) but most are not gunning for the population, and it is more common to see a dead civilian killed by a oppressive local force then the military. There are actually a shit load of rules restricting American military from firing until they have expressed permission from higher ups, or the enemy shoots at them first. Even then an insurgent can fire a gun through a crowded road, kill a soldier then drop the gun and flee.
You seem to think the USA can simply leave and be like "bye guys!" The political system and economic system are so fucked up if the US left the entire world would bust their balls for being irresponsible. Yet the US is still being criticized for staying in when it is trying to establish a recovery plan with a non-cooperative government.
Even then, pulling out would create a power vacuum that any dangerous force could fill, making all the deaths so far pointless. On top of it all there are resources that not only are valuable to the US, but other major countries that if we simply pulled out, any kind of influence we have would be lost.
There is a reason that this has lasted so long and is so controversial, if it could be easily solved it wouldnt be controversial. Do you think no thought has been put into this, that the world's great minds havent sat down for countless hours trying to find a solution? Yet here you are saying "oh its so simple just leave."
This isn't a simple black and white picture that alot of you see, it is a million shades of gray and all the other god damn colors shot together in a cluster fuck.
[QUOTE=Da Jester;28769570]"Oh fuck America, fucking Amerifat idiots, posing with corpses is something nobody would do, ever, just rednecks and hicks. Hurr hurrrrrr"
[editline]23rd March 2011[/editline]
Because none of you would ever take pictures of a trophy kill.[/QUOTE]
FYI, most of us aren't psychopaths like you. Now please go get your legs blown off by an IED any future killing sprees of yours will be limited to wheelchair-accessible clock towers.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;28778862]The real question, what war are you fighting?
Terrorists? You make more new terrorists than you kill.
Shoot one civ? Others see and side with terrorists because americans aren't much better. It's an infinite circle which can be finished only when all people in that region are dead.
I mean really, these "good guys" bomb the shit out of civilians, kill kids from an apache and do all that shit, I would hate them too and join the "bad guys" because in the end they're both as bad.
I don't see why retarded armies can't just leave the plac[/QUOTE]
This isn't Iraq. They aren't fighting "terrorists" that are really just people wanting foreign invaders the fuck out of their country.
This is the Taliban, and they are bona fide scum. Civilians in Afghanistan hate the Taliban, but at the same time aren't ready to go hand in hand with NATO because open cooperation means the Taliban comes back later and maims or kills their family.
If you look at the UN statistics for the past two years, 70%+ of civilian casualties are still the fault of the Taliban, contrary to what these terrible incidents by NATO troops in past 10 years might have you believe.
As to whether they should pull out, I'm not sure. On one hand, good HAS been done there, the Taliban have been removed from power, a new Afghan government has been raised and the Afghani forces are being trained up so they can deal with their own problem. However, the ANA is entirely incompetent at the moment, and it will take a few more years of training and consolidating before they are capable of operating on their own.
On the other hand, this means a few more years of bloodshed on all sides, and to be honest, it's almost more trouble than it's worth. It's like fucked if you do, fucked if you don't.
[QUOTE=Mingebox;28779178]FYI, most of us aren't psychopaths like you. Now please go get your legs blown off by an IED any future killing sprees of yours will be limited to wheelchair-accessible clock towers.[/QUOTE]
You would be if you were in the military.
[b]AMERICA, FUCK YE[/b][IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c29/kalamari13/genkillvillage.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28779302]This isn't Iraq. They aren't fighting "terrorists" that are really just people wanting foreign invaders the fuck out of their country.
This is the Taliban, and they are bona fide scum. Civilians in Afghanistan hate the Taliban, but at the same time aren't ready to go hand in hand with NATO because open cooperation means the Taliban comes back later and maims or kills their family.
If you look at the UN statistics for the past two years, 70%+ of civilian casualties are still the fault of the Taliban, contrary to what these terrible incidents by NATO troops in past 10 years might have you believe.
As to whether they should pull out, I'm not sure. On one hand, good HAS been done there, the Taliban have been removed from power, a new Afghan government has been raised and the Afghani forces are being trained up so they can deal with their own problem. However, the ANA is entirely incompetent at the moment, and it will take a few more years of training and consolidating before they are capable of operating on their own.
On the other hand, this means a few more years of bloodshed on all sides, and to be honest, it's almost more trouble than it's worth. It's like fucked if you do, fucked if you don't.[/QUOTE]
not to mention the taliban forces rising in pakistan, not just afghanistan. Taliban are all over the god damn place because they think we're all the fucking anti-christ and we somehow managed to inspire a long generation of vengeful muslims
itt: we will never win this war, you can't win insurgencies, there's just too much effort that needs to be put into it
[QUOTE=Moose;28783976]
itt: we will never win this war, you can't win insurgencies, there's just too much effort that needs to be put into it[/QUOTE]
The United States is trying to change ideals that have been embedded for thousands of years. We're tenacious bastards, but we really don't see the pointlessness of it all. Noble goals overshadowed by the harsh reality.
how and why do people let this happen
on the subject of 'pulling out'.. it's not really that easy. They're already somewhat settled in Afghanistan, we have COP's and FOB's all over the country, which poses quite a logistical challenge, especially the combat outposts which are high in the mountains. They could get out, but not in a day unless they want to give the taliban our weapons and ammunition.
the whole subject of US intervention is so mixed. People get angry when the US intervenes, and people get angry when the US doesn't. How could you let people be massacred? Why police the world? etc etc.
let's not forget bush's approval ratings were 90 percent around 9/11, congress voted 98-0, house 420-1, and America seemed to be 'crying' for war. They got it, and perhaps they were avenged, but it's been almost 10 years, what has been accomplished?
for starters:
1. the taliban was overthrown, an oppressive regime
2. al qaeda was left in ruin in the area. it may have came back but it was really on the ropes back in invasion period.
3. New 'democratic' government installed
4. Humanitarian aid reached people who needed it
The taliban may very well take over if the US leaves. It's hard to tell. A lot of the ACM (anti coalition militia) just wants 'foreign occupiers' to leave, which leaves that risk to the taliban and maybe others, but again it's hard to tell.
I would think the war will end soon, and ISAF will withdraw most forces and take on similar roles of that happening in iraq right now, but only time will tell. The Afgan army is really in bad shape, I have freinds and of course watching the news and documentaries you can easily tell they're in bad shape. They're smoking hash, not wearing helmets, etc, it's just really awful from what i hear. If they can turn that around perhaps there will be hope in the government. Afgan opinions on this is mixed obviously, some people appreciate ISAF's and the goverment's help, and some don't want any foreign 'occupiers'. Nobody likes war, but now that the gears are already going it's going to be hard to stop it.
only time will tell.
[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;28763936]We do. Stop being ignorant.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/06/15/neo_nazis_army[/url]
And yes they do, actually, if you're one of them queers, you can't join this mans army. but if you're a shithead neo-nazi, COME RIGHT IN!
[editline]24th March 2011[/editline]
[url]http://undergroundunbeliever.blogspot.com/2009/01/fbi-report-on-hate-groups-in-military.html[/url]
Not to mention a large influx of gang members in the military.
[editline]24th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=JeffAndersen;28764037]Why don't you fucking enlist and you'll see how it works. If you can do it better, do it better.[/QUOTE]
Why do people use this argument? If we're arguing against the military because they go into bullshit wars and kill people, we're not going to fucking enlist, are we?
[editline]24th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;28764105]That is such a naive opinion to have.[/QUOTE]
Uhhh, no it isn't?
If there's a fucking war going on, don't join and go OH NO WE'RE ALL PAWNS!
If you know you're a pawn, don't, yknow, be a fucking pawn.
[editline]24th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ultra Violence;28764251]As for finding unique experiences elsewhere, that usually requires money. But I'm glad you picked ONE option out of five examples I gave, and somehow that made them all irrelevant because you decided you could dig a hole around one of them.[/QUOTE]
I'll do it for him
"Running from problems"
There's a couple hundred thousand things you can do to run from a problem.
"sense of duty to the country"
Stupid reason
"lack of funds to pay for higher education"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FAFSA[/url]
"family tradition"
Stupid reason
"unique training"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocational_school[/url]
"experiences"
I guess killing people is a experience you'll take with you for the rest of your lifffffeee.
[QUOTE=JDK721;28738076]and that somehow justifies this or lessens the gravity of the situation?
stop it with this bullshit excuse[/QUOTE]
It's not an excuse, we're just letting this be known because everyone on Facepunch seems to think that the USA is just a country full of rednecks, morons, and assholes, and that every soldier in the U.S Army is a murderer. I'm not trying to justify what these soldiers did, but I'm tired of this generalization.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;28773476]Psychological evaluations that would screen out personality disorders and sociopaths aren't cheap and take time.[/QUOTE]
Wait, are you seriously ruling out psychological evaluations for a an organisation that [B]kills people and wages war[/B] because it's expensive?
Are you fucking retarded?
[editline]24th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheChantzGuy;28790504]It's not an excuse, we're just letting this be known because everyone on Facepunch seems to think that the USA is just a country full of rednecks, morons, and assholes, and that every soldier in the U.S Army is a murderer. I'm not trying to justify what these soldiers did, but I'm tired of this generalization.[/QUOTE]
No one says this. Literally every single one of you apologists have used this starwman argument - none of us has fucking ever said this.
Now, we have, however, said there is a large influx of these chaps in your military and the military does not take great care to prevent them.
In other news, the rest of the army actually does its job.
[QUOTE=Dalndox;28775610]What part of "they killed civilians" do you not unders-
[img_thumb]http://gyazo.com/8a7af2cc1c5280e9bc3798ddbb0d638c.png[/img_thumb]
Ah. My bad.[/QUOTE]
considering this whole artical is biased and there is prob a reason why this happened but the whole point of this artical is to make america look like satan
Something similar happened with the Aussies.
They blew up some guys house for no reason and made racial comments.
None the less, they are being discharged and shit.
[b]Edit[/b]
[QUOTE=42O;28793619]considering this whole artical is biased and there is prob a reason why this happened but the whole point of this artical is to make america look like satan[/QUOTE]
Please tell me you are joking. Explain how it says America is satan?
Re-read the [b]article[/b] and come back.
[QUOTE=42O;28793619]considering this whole artical is biased and there is prob a reason why this happened but the whole point of this artical is to make america look like satan[/QUOTE]
Wow. There was no reason. Your own courts are charging those guys.
Also this article is very well written, it is not biased if you know the true meaning of the word.
It only states that american soldiers have killed civilians, they are going to be charged and then displays the pictures and explains them.
Edit: There is a time when you will learn in life that governments (and people) are massive dicks. America is no better.
Edit2: Damn look at it, the guy is holding up a half naked, dying mans head for the camera and smiling.
Edit3: No sane person would ever do that.
[QUOTE=Used Car Salesman;28738632][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_war_casualties[/url]
By various estimates up to 80% of people killed in the Iraq war alone were civilians. I think it's safe to say our military has an institutional problem with just not giving a fuck who we kill.[/QUOTE]
uh
that's total casualties. not casualties by side.
you understand that iraq is essentially in a state of internal war where you have fanatics intentionally targeting civilians, right?
should just get the hell out of the middle east and hand over those billion dollar bases we constructed there to the respectful governments
US soldiers might be retarded dickheads, but still.. ISAF > Taliban
[QUOTE=Moose;28799500]should just get the hell out of the middle east and hand over those billion dollar bases we constructed there to the respectful governments[/QUOTE]
No because the only reason why those governments play nice (to the West) are because of the billions of dollars of weapons aid propping up the regimes, and those bases.
[quote=cubemanv2;28740230]it's fucking war, if your a civvy in a war area you have a 99% chance of dying end of story. When bullets fly don't be in the way.[/quote]
fuck yeah let's do this devil dogs!!!!!! Give em hell!! Anyone who runs is a terrorist, anyone who stands still, is a well diciplined terrorist!!!!!!
Hoooah GET SOME!!!!
The American army is a joke, I can't speak for others but god knows our Army consist of bored teenage highschool dropouts that want to play Call of Duty with 3D glasses on.
[editline]25th March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=CubeManv2;28740230]It's fucking war, If your a civvy in a war area you have a 99% chance of dying end of story. When bullets fly don't be in the way.[/QUOTE]
You only have a 99% chance of dying if the people shooting at you are undertrained careless morons that are in it for the thrills, you thick twat.
[QUOTE=Kopimi;28802387]The American army is a joke, I can't speak for others but god knows our Army consist of bored teenage highschool dropouts that want to play Call of Duty with 3D glasses on.
[editline]25th March 2011[/editline]
You only have a 99% chance of dying if the people shooting at you are undertrained careless morons that are in it for the thrills, you thick twat.[/QUOTE]
you have no idea what you're talking about
[QUOTE=Moose;28802906]you have no idea what you're talking about[/QUOTE]
Check the OP
You cannot expect people to get into a mind set that killing people is ok and then get mad when they react to death in a way that allows them to cope with it.
So to cope with killing people, they kill people.
[editline]25th March 2011[/editline]
Hookay
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