• Mike Pence Breaks Senate Tie To Allow States To Defund Planned Parenthood
    111 replies, posted
I kind of feel like Planned Parenthood is a problem with no good, immediately obvious solution. I feel like people have a right to not fund abortion.
[QUOTE=Judas;52033366]it provides much more than abortion services, and they recieve no funding for their abortion services from taxpayer dollars anyway[/QUOTE] what they fund with taxpayer dollars is irrelevant, planned parenthood is a private company that receives public funding, is this case of corporate welfare OK? and if it is, why are others not?
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52033994]I kind of feel like Planned Parenthood is a problem with no good, immediately obvious solution. I feel like people have a right to not fund abortion.[/QUOTE] That's funny, because I don't think Planned Parenthood is a problem at all actually
Just keep on showing how you deserved getting the "Working for Women" award.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52033994]I kind of feel like Planned Parenthood is a problem with no good, immediately obvious solution. I feel like people have a right to not fund abortion.[/QUOTE] Abortion is a small part of what planned parenthood does
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52034292]Abortion is a small part of what planned parenthood does[/QUOTE] I know. Therein lies the problem. I want all the rest funded, and most people would agree with that, and I'm actually pro-choice, but I respect the opinions of those that oppose the 1% of their function that is abortion, and I respect those that do not want it funded. Bob has five dollars. I give him five more. Then, he buys five dollars worth of heroin. Did I pay for the heroin?
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034352]I know. Therein lies the problem. I want all the rest funded, and most people would agree with that, and I'm actually pro-choice, but I respect the opinions of those that oppose the 1% of their function that is abortion, and I respect those that do not want it funded. Bob has five dollars. I give him five more. Then, he buys five dollars worth of heroin. Did I pay for the heroin?[/QUOTE] Are you really comparing funding a guy's potential heroin addiction to abortion. A process that can [I]save somebody's life[/I]
[QUOTE=Zeos;52034360]Are you really comparing funding a guy's potential heroin addiction to abortion. A process that can [I]save somebody's life[/I][/QUOTE] okay Bob has five dollars. I give him five more. Then he buys five dollars worth of apples. Did I pay for the apples? You don't get out of a comparison by attacking its magnitude of offense; "Are you really comparing..." arguments always fall flat on their face.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034406]okay Bob has five dollars. I give him five more. Then he buys five dollars worth of apples. Did I pay for the apples? You don't get out of a comparison by attacking its magnitude of offense; "Are you really comparing..." arguments always fall flat on their face.[/QUOTE] It seems like you were trying to make abortions seem like an addictive act akin to a drug. That would be hyperbole since the majority who undergo abortions aren't doing it for anything akin to pleasure, most do it as they don't want to bring a life into the world that can't be properly supported.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034406]okay Bob has five dollars. I give him five more. Then he buys five dollars worth of apples. Did I pay for the apples? You don't get out of a comparison by attacking its magnitude of offense; "Are you really comparing..." arguments always fall flat on their face.[/QUOTE] I understand that some people don't want their taxes to fund things they personally feel is morally reprehensible (not saying i think abortion is wrong - I'm pro-choice) but we don't get to pick and choose what our taxes are spent on. I dislike how portions of my taxes are spent on the military-industrial complex instead of public schooling, but I can't choose what my money is spent on or what percentage is spent on certain things. If that was possible our country would cease to properly function because budgeting would be impossible. Certain vital services would probably not get funded and other obvious things would get over funded (think every trendy hipster putting all their tax money toward saving the whales while our road infrastructure is underfunded because no one is going to sit down and equally measure what percentage of their funds goes to every agency based on need rather than quick gut feelings)
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;52034440]It seems like you were trying to make abortions seem like an addictive act akin to a drug. That would be hyperbole since the majority who undergo abortions aren't doing it for anything akin to pleasure, most do it as they don't want to bring a life into the world that can't be properly supported.[/QUOTE] You're fucking joking, right? What an assault on my intelligence. Nobody actually thinks that. I was [I]clearly[/I] saying that abortions are sour. Apples and heroin are both sour, you see. Actually, no I wasn't. Because, when I said that my comparison of abortions to heroin didn't imply a transfer of the property "bad" that heroin has to abortion, I figured that it would be pretty clear that neither is the property "addictive" (itself a subset of "bad") transfered to abortions. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SleepyAl;52034569]I understand that some people don't want their taxes to fund things they personally feel is morally reprehensible (not saying i think abortion is wrong - I'm pro-choice) but we don't get to pick and choose what our taxes are spent on. I dislike how portions of my taxes are spent on the military-industrial complex instead of public schooling, but I can't choose what my money is spent on or what percentage is spent on certain things. If that was possible our country would cease to properly function because budgeting would be impossible. Certain vital services would probably not get funded and other obvious things would get over funded (think every trendy hipster putting all their tax money toward saving the whales while our road infrastructure is underfunded because no one is going to sit down and equally measure what percentage of their funds goes to every agency based on need rather than quick gut feelings)[/QUOTE] Yes, we cannot individually choose how taxes are spent, but in just the same way as you can vote "some of the tax fund should go to X" someone else can vote that "[I]none[/I] of the tax fund should go to X", and I don't think that the response "that can't be done because that would mean defunding A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H" is an ideal response. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52034419]Opinions should not be used to restrict others of their rights.[/QUOTE] Nor should the necessity of funding A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H mean we have to fund X.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034645]You're fucking joking, right? What an assault on my intelligence. Nobody actually thinks that. I was [I]clearly[/I] saying that abortions are sour. Apples and heroin are both sour, you see. Actually, no I wasn't. Because, when I said that my comparison of abortions to heroin didn't imply a transfer of the property "bad" that heroin has to abortion, I figured that it would be pretty clear that neither is the property "addictive" (itself a subset of "bad") transfered to abortions. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] Yes, we cannot individually choose how taxes are spent, but in just the same way as you can vote "some of the tax fund should go to X" someone else can vote that "[I]none[/I] of the tax fund should go to X", and I don't think that the response "that can't be done because that would mean defunding A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H" is an ideal response. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] Nor should the necessity of funding A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H mean we have to fund X.[/QUOTE] So you're just saying a whole lot of nothing then essentially?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52034697]So you're just saying a whole lot of nothing then essentially?[/QUOTE] No, I'm saying "I kind of feel like Planned Parenthood is a problem with no good, immediately obvious solution."
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52033219]Well more than that. Abortions account for a fraction of a percent of the work that PP does, and we're not publicly funded either way. This is an attack on basic reproductive health services.[/QUOTE] Wait, if it's not publically funded how can it be defunded?
[QUOTE=elowin;52034783]Wait, if it's not publically funded how can it be defunded?[/QUOTE] Portions of PP are publicly funded, but Abortion isn't one of them. However, by stripping PP of its public funding, it now has a host of other essential services it needs to cover with its private funding.
[QUOTE=Craigewan;52034788]Portions of PP are publicly funded, but Abortion isn't one of them.[/QUOTE] Is this meaningful in any way? Any more than checking the serial number on the $5 bill Bob buys his apples/heroin with to see if you "funded" his apples/heroin by giving him a $5 bill?
Defunding planned parenthood also wouldn't stop abortions. It will cause the abortions that happen afterward to skyrocket in risk though. I would rather these abortions happen in a safe, clean environment and performed by a professional if they need to be done at all.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034820]Is this meaningful in any way? Any more than checking the serial number on the $5 bill Bob buys his apples/heroin with to see if you "funded" his apples/heroin by giving him a $5 bill?[/QUOTE] What does that mean? What have you been implying this entire time? You say you're pro-choice but your words make me think otherwise and it's confusing.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034820]Is this meaningful in any way? Any more than checking the serial number on the $5 bill Bob buys his apples/heroin with to see if you "funded" his apples/heroin by giving him a $5 bill?[/QUOTE] Apple/Heroin example is false equivalence, and you understand this entirely.
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;52035145]What does that mean? What have you been implying this entire time? You say you're pro-choice but your words make me think otherwise and it's confusing.[/QUOTE] what that means is "give me five dollars and I won't spend it on heroin" is useless if your standard for verifying the truth of that is checking the serial number of the bill used to buy heroin. Unless someone explains the difference, every bit of money that, due to federal funding, doesn't have to go to the not-abortion fund is a bit of money in the abortion fund. I'm more pro-choice than you, don't call me pro-life because I can sympathize with those opposed to it. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=gufu;52035228]Apple/Heroin example is false equivalence, and you understand this entirely.[/QUOTE] [I]all right since your knickers are in such a twist over the magnitude of the offense of my comparison rather than any actual fallacy[/I] Planned Parenthood has 50,000,000 dollars. I give Planned Parenthood 50,000,000 dollars more. Planned Parenthood then spends 50,000,000 dollars on abortions. Did I pay for the abortions?
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52035324]what that means is "give me five dollars and I won't spend it on heroin" is useless if your standard for verifying the truth of that is checking the serial number of the bill used to buy heroin. Unless someone explains the difference, every bit of money that, due to federal funding, doesn't have to go to the not-abortion fund is a bit of money in the abortion fund. I'm more pro-choice than you, don't call me pro-life because I can sympathize with those opposed to it. [editline]30th March 2017[/editline] [I]all right since your knickers are in such a twist over the magnitude of the offense of my comparison rather than any actual fallacy[/I] Planned Parenthood has 50,000,000 dollars. I give Planned Parenthood 50,000,000 dollars more. Planned Parenthood then spends 50,000,000 dollars on abortions. Did I pay for the abortions?[/QUOTE] Basic accounting allows you to track what money goes where and to what accounts so that each pool of money may be used for its intended purposes. Public funds not meant to fund abortion would likely go into some sort of public funds account which would be used to fund other services. Abortion would still be funded due to funds from other sources maintained in a separate account.
Holy shit dude, rarely do I ever post on this forum in the eleven years I've been here but the sheer audacity of your comment and attitude has boggled the ever living fuck out of me. In what fucking [B][I]WORLD[/I][/B] is Planned Parenthood an issue? [B]LMFAO.[/B] They provide so much more than abortions. They provide [B]free [/B]STD tests, cancer screenings, general pregnancy preventatives like birth control and condoms, sexual education, etc. to those that might not be able to afford it. Not to mention that the organization helps rape and domestic abuse victims with free counseling and occasionally placing those in danger in safe places like shelters. They aren't some sort of abortion factory that you and so many other uninformed people spout off about without looking at the facts. If you're unable to see that the pros of PP very, very heavily outweigh the cons, then you're quite honestly moronic and blind to the truth. I also believe that the act of preventing these women from getting help that they need is a direct insult to not only them, but any women in your life, by shitting on their fundamental idea of choice. Lest you forget that not all abortions are because of simple reasons like "Oh, I goofed and don't want a child." There's tons of medical reasons too. [URL="https://np.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/5m4lx9/i_an_atheist_just_erupted_at_my_verychristian/"]Here's[/URL] a link to a father's very moving (and graphic, beware) story about loss during pregnancy and testimony on abortion. God forbid a woman that you either know or are related to is raped or has complications with a pregnancy and won't have access to safe havens like PP to turn to just because you don't believe in allocating funds to an organization that deals with abortions on a very minute level. It's also very interesting that you talk about yourself as if you're some God-like advocate of free choice but you're entirely against a woman choosing not to have her baby, which she very likely would not be ready for fiscally, emotionally, etc. Spreading information around like Planned Parenthood being some abortion paradise and talking about abortions being 'sour' on a forum that could very likely be browsed by young, impressionable teenagers who might not have complete access to sexual education or aren't informed completely (much like yourself, I'm sure) is a very slippery slope.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52033994]I kind of feel like Planned Parenthood is a problem with no good, immediately obvious solution. I feel like people have a right to not fund abortion.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://rewire.news/article/2017/01/13/paul-ryan-planned-parenthood-taxpayer-money-abortion-care/"]tax dollars don't go to abortion funding. this a myth perpetuated by paul ryan.[/URL] they aren't "a problem" they're a healthcare clinic focused on women's health, which has many unique requirements that may not be satisfied by the average doctor.
[QUOTE=1239the;52035764][URL="https://rewire.news/article/2017/01/13/paul-ryan-planned-parenthood-taxpayer-money-abortion-care/"]tax dollars don't go to abortion funding. this a myth perpetuated by paul ryan.[/URL] they aren't "a problem" they're a healthcare clinic focused on women's health, which has many unique requirements that may not be satisfied by the average doctor.[/QUOTE] As far as I can tell Tone Float isn't technically arguing that tax money goes directly to abortions, he's trying to claim that by having a budget augmented by government funds they can use private money they may not use otherwise to fund abortions because they have a larger budget. It's an asinine claim regardless.
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52034820]Is this meaningful in any way? Any more than checking the serial number on the $5 bill Bob buys his apples/heroin with to see if you "funded" his apples/heroin by giving him a $5 bill?[/QUOTE] Your allegory is shit. If a man has 100 dollars, I give him 5 dollars to go buy a burger, and he then goes off to buy a burger for 5 dollars but he also spends some of his 100 dollars on a soda, did I fund the soda? If you give Planned Parenthood a fraction of their funding, which they use on something other than abortions, and then they use some of their other, private funding on abortions, did you fund the abortions? Spoiler alert, no. That's not how it works. You giving them money for something does not give you any responsibility for or right to control what they use the rest of their money for.
[QUOTE=Ze Wolf E;52035754]Holy shit dude, rarely do I ever post on this forum in the eleven years I've been here but the sheer audacity of your comment and attitude has boggled the ever living fuck out of me. In what fucking [B][I]WORLD[/I][/B] is Planned Parenthood an issue? [B]LMFAO.[/B] They provide so much more than abortions. They provide [B]free [/B]STD tests, cancer screenings, general pregnancy preventatives like birth control and condoms, sexual education, etc. to those that might not be able to afford it. Not to mention that the organization helps rape and domestic abuse victims with free counseling and occasionally placing those in danger in safe places like shelters. They aren't some sort of abortion factory that you and so many other uninformed people spout off about without looking at the facts. If you're unable to see that the pros of PP very, very heavily outweigh the cons, then you're quite honestly moronic and blind to the truth. I also believe that the act of preventing these women from getting help that they need is a direct insult to not only them, but any women in your life, by shitting on their fundamental idea of choice. Lest you forget that not all abortions are because of simple reasons like "Oh, I goofed and don't want a child." There's tons of medical reasons too. [URL="https://np.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/5m4lx9/i_an_atheist_just_erupted_at_my_verychristian/"]Here's[/URL] a link to a father's very moving (and graphic, beware) story about loss during pregnancy and testimony on abortion. God forbid a woman that you either know or are related to is raped or has complications with a pregnancy and won't have access to safe havens like PP to turn to just because you don't believe in allocating funds to an organization that deals with abortions on a very minute level. It's also very interesting that you talk about yourself as if you're some God-like advocate of free choice but you're entirely against a woman choosing not to have her baby, which she very likely would not be ready for fiscally, emotionally, etc. Spreading information around like Planned Parenthood being some abortion paradise and talking about abortions being 'sour' on a forum that could very likely be browsed by young, impressionable teenagers who might not have complete access to sexual education or aren't informed completely (much like yourself, I'm sure) is a very slippery slope.[/QUOTE] tell me more that I already know about planned parenthood, and then put words in my mouth, please, continue to do so. If it confuses you further, I'm literally in favor of post-birth abortions. Does that make me a "God-like advocate of free choice"? "Is this meaningful in any way? Any more than checking the serial number on the $5 bill Bob buys his apples/heroin with to see if you "funded" his apples/heroin by giving him a $5 bill?" I said that a while ago and nobody has had any convincing answer other than "they're different accounts, maaaaaan". A dollar that doesn't have to go to a mammogram is a dollar that can go to an abortion. [editline]31st March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=elowin;52037019]Your allegory is shit. If a man has 100 dollars, I give him 5 dollars to go buy a burger, and he then goes off to buy a burger for 5 dollars but he also spends some of his 100 dollars on a soda, did I fund the soda? If you give Planned Parenthood a fraction of their funding, which they use on something other than abortions, and then they use some of their other, private funding on abortions, did you fund the abortions? Spoiler alert, no. That's not how it works. You giving them money for something does not give you any responsibility for or right to control what they use the rest of their money for.[/QUOTE] I give Bob five dollars and then say [I]really strictly[/I] that he's not allowed to use [I]that five dollar bill[/I] on heroin...
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52037246]tell me more that I already know about planned parenthood, and then put words in my mouth, please, continue to do so. If it confuses you further, I'm literally in favor of post-birth abortions. Does that make me a "God-like advocate of free choice"? "Is this meaningful in any way? Any more than checking the serial number on the $5 bill Bob buys his apples/heroin with to see if you "funded" his apples/heroin by giving him a $5 bill?" I said that a while ago and nobody has had any convincing answer other than "they're different accounts, maaaaaan". A dollar that doesn't have to go to a mammogram is a dollar that can go to an abortion.[/QUOTE] Abortions are good and every woman should have easy and reliable access to them. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Insensitive" - Tudd))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52037255]Abortions are good and every woman should have easy and reliable access to them.[/QUOTE] i agree, lol?
[QUOTE=Tone Float;52037262]i agree, lol?[/QUOTE] You just think tax money shouldn't fund it for some reason?
[QUOTE=Lambeth;52037267]You just think tax money shouldn't fund it for some reason?[/QUOTE] yes? If there were a standalone clinic that only did abortions, [I]only[/I], you wouldn't get to hide behind [I]all the other shit they do[/I] as a reason for why the large fraction of the country that thinks abortion is abhorrent should have to finance it, and it wouldn't be financed. Alas, there is a lot of other shit that they do, so you do have something to hide behind and declare those people who think abortion is abhorrent to be waging a war on women and mammograms and shit! I don't think that's a very good reason.
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