Theresa May confirms plans to create international border with passport check points between Scotlan - Polidicks

seriously though what are the reasons FOR a scottish independence at this point? other than to screw over england, nobody has said a good reason for independence, at least on these forums

[QUOTE=Sableye;44246697]seriously though what are the reasons FOR a scottish independence at this point? other than to screw over england, nobody has said a good reason for independence, at least on these forums[/QUOTE] Alex Salmonds fantasy. From what they say he changes it every time he talks about it, saying scotland will get more and more each time.

[QUOTE=Sableye;44246697]seriously though what are the reasons FOR a scottish independence at this point?[/QUOTE] part of the idea is that the voting system in the UK sucks butt and any sort of voting reform is not going to happen any time soon, separating from the union would allow the country to undergo larger changes in a shorter span of time than being in the union, i.e. even if Scotland ends up with a terrible government immediately after becoming independent, it would be easier to change that

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;44246727]Alex Salmonds fantasy. From what they say he changes it every time he talks about it, saying scotland will get more and more each time.[/QUOTE] Just like Cameron says we'll get less and less each time. Honestly I think either way not much will change, for better or worse.

IMO England should have a parliament, that way the Westminster government wouldn't hinge on the English vote and the West Lothian question will be killed at the same time Probably, I don't know v:v:v

[QUOTE=Craigewan;44246633]The only EU official to suggest that is Spanish - He has a good reason to want to discourage Independence movements because they're worried about the Catalonian Independence movement. Other EU officials have called Barraso (I believe that is his name, but I could be wrong) out on his shit, stating that it was a load of bollocks.[/QUOTE] Touché, however my second point about us not being in the Schengen area still stands.

And Scotland wouldn't be in the EU either way. That shit takes time and they would need to prove their sustainability and independence. Which they sort of wouldn't since their electrical grid is a fucking joke since their policy was to drop fucking everything and go green right fucking now.

[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44247643]Touché, however my second point about us not being in the Schengen area still stands.[/QUOTE] when crossing the border between Northern Ireland and ROI the main way to tell that you have crossed it is the change in road markings and signs, nobody checks anyone's passport and the border isn't even marked properly; neither are in the Schengen Area Theresa May might be threatening border checkpoints but that doesn't mean it's necessary

[QUOTE=bravehat;44245897]Apart from the fact that we don't even have full control over what goes on in our own nation?[/QUOTE] Minus the Scottish Parliament and how nearly everything has been devolved. I mean, what else more does Northern Britain need? The SNP doesn't want a separate military, currency, borders, etc. What will actually change in any significant positive way as a result of independence?

[QUOTE=Taggart;44245796]Yes instead of having open borders like virtually the rest of the EU let's resort to petty revenge tactics and just annoy people who have a legitimate reason to travel between England and Scotland, a foolproof plan. Why is this idiot still Home Secretary again?[/QUOTE] Except Scotland would not be part of the EU or Shengen at first. It would have to enter into all these treaties at first. [QUOTE=Uber|nooB;44247744]when crossing the border between Northern Ireland and ROI the main way to tell that you have crossed it is the change in road markings and signs, nobody checks anyone's passport and the border isn't even marked properly; neither are in the Schengen Area Theresa May might be threatening border checkpoints but that doesn't mean it's necessary[/QUOTE] Only because all of these countries have free movement and no border controls treaties between each other. An independant Scotland would in many ways be a Tabula Rasa. It would generally not be hard for it to step into these treaties anew, but it wouldn't be automatic. In part because the UK as a nation would remain and as such would need no successor to the treaties it is a part of. For instance when the CSFR dissolved into the CZ and SK, some treaties were automatic as the two nations were treaty successors in many ways, but other treaties had to be renewed, and treaties between the two new nations had to be closed as well. That's kinda standard as far as international law goes. While getting some basic free movement for Scotish citizens would indeed be fairly simple and straightforwar, something like the EU would be a muhc longer process, as an independant Scotland would probably have to undergo all the standard entrance protocols. In part because a lot of nations would be demanding it as a dissuaduation to their minor regions which want to go independant as well.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44247802]Minus the Scottish Parliament and how nearly everything has been devolved. I mean, what else more does Northern Britain need? The SNP doesn't want a separate military, currency, borders, etc. What will actually change in any significant positive way as a result of independence?[/QUOTE] Salmond's career.

Having independence for Scotland isn't going to work out for Scotland or the UK. Yeah, you can show all of these predictions but at the end of the day, that's all they are, predictions and all of the arguments are based on what people are assuming might happen to the economy. Nothing is set in stone and chances are, it'll just fuck up both places. Its became more about big-headed patriotism rather than rational thinking. The Scotland needs the UK as much as the UK needs Scotland but since it seems to be the politicians making the decisions and not the people, you get people like Theresa May trying to play a bloody brick wall an a door in between the countries as opposed to giving Scotland an actual reason to stay, which eventually will backlash.

[QUOTE=Baron von Hax;44248369]Having independence for Scotland isn't going to work out for Scotland or the UK. Yeah, you can show all of these predictions but at the end of the day, that's all they are, predictions and all of the arguments are based on what people are assuming might happen to the economy. Nothing is set in stone and chances are, it'll just fuck up both places. Its became more about big-headed patriotism rather than rational thinking. The Scotland needs the UK as much as the UK needs Scotland but since it seems to be the politicians making the decisions and not the people, you get people like Theresa May trying to play a bloody brick wall an a door in between the countries as opposed to giving Scotland an actual reason to stay, which eventually will backlash.[/QUOTE] As much as I dislike the idea of independence, you can't discredit economic predictions with a fuckton of maths behind them with your own prediction of "probs gonna go badly". They're not exactly of equal weight.

[QUOTE=bravehat;44245897]Apart from the fact that we don't even have full control over what goes on in our own nation? The fact that frankly we're tied to a conservative government that no one wants any part of? Sure that's completely based on hearsay and anecdotes but I've met no one that voted conservatives here. There's also this [url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/2010UKElectionMap.svg[/url][/QUOTE] England's also tied to the conservative government that no one wants any part of.

Do they do the exact same with Northern Ireland and the republic of Ireland?

It is so fucking slimy this cabinet you've got this bitch and then the quack nob that is Jeremy hunt then you've got William Hague If it weren't for this sleazy flatulence inhalers appearing on TV all the time Milliband would have no appeal for this election

[img]http://flapadar.co.uk/img/2014-03-16-09-51-40.png[/img] mspaint of Thatcher #2.

[QUOTE=The mouse;44245874]Scotland has no more reason to become independent than Cornwall or Wales, it's just that there's more misplaced nationalistic nostalgia there.[/QUOTE] Try saying that when you've got a english nuclear trident missile base just up the road from you, with nuclear submarines going up and down The Clyde...makes me feel uneasy.

[QUOTE=zeromancer;44253795]Try saying that when you've got a [B]english nuclear trident[/B] missile base just up the road from you, with nuclear submarines going up and down The Clyde...[B]makes me feel uneasy.[/B][/QUOTE] Why?, they're British, not English.

[QUOTE=Uber|nooB;44247744]when crossing the border between Northern Ireland and ROI the main way to tell that you have crossed it is the change in road markings and signs, nobody checks anyone's passport and the border isn't even marked properly; neither are in the Schengen Area Theresa May might be threatening border checkpoints but that doesn't mean it's necessary[/QUOTE] The second way to check the border is to look for the side with firework shops. There's a load of them on the NI side.