[QUOTE=DrMonumbo;18828148]It's like people don't understand that they have the ability to not kill an intruder. Being prepared for a home invasion is now the equivalent of saying you are ready to take someone's life. Call the police, leave the house, if you can't leave the house barricade yourself in a room, it's not hard. Violence should always be the last resort.
It may sound like I'm putting the old woman at fault, but she definitely did not exhaust her non-lethal options.
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=18828009&postcount=758[/url]
have you rethought this RBM11?[/QUOTE]
yes i am definitely going to call the police and leave my home and wait 10 minutes while the robber clears out my house.
violence /is/ the last resort. that's why you get the drop on them and hold them at gunpoint and chances are they're gonna surrender, if they go after you, defend yourself and shoot them.
[QUOTE=RJ102;18828391]The fuck?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, a good shotgun slug costs you about a 1$, I can go down to my local gun store and pick up a box of 5 Winchester Ranger 1 oz. low-recoil shotgun slugs for 5$, I have 3 boxes of them right near my bed.
[QUOTE=DrMonumbo;18828244]He was drunk, has no history of violence and never made threats against the woman's life, he was just confused and in the wrong place.
I wouldn't want to kill anyone but if you break my window I'll kill you.[/QUOTE]
considering the circumstances he must have been drunk off his tits which is p irresponsible.
even when i'm drunk i can tell big stick goes boom boom and really really hurts.
[QUOTE=nukehummer;18828222]I wouldn't want to kill, but I'd sure as hell shoot someone who threw a table through
my back door at 1 in the morning, and then entered my house.[/QUOTE]
How was she supposed to know? Infact, what does it matter, he still threatened her and threw a table.
Also if your threatening someone with a gun, which is all at should take to frighten them off, and they keep coming after you, you gotta go through with your threat in the first place, violence IS a last resort, but the intruder decides if your going to use it or not.
[QUOTE=Zatharon;18828403]Yeah, a good shotgun slug costs you about a 1$, I can go down to my local gun store and pick up a box of 5 Winchester Ranger 1 oz. low-recoil shotgun slugs for 5$, I have 3 boxes of them right near my bed.[/QUOTE]
Cheap slugs, I got some SST's and there like 15 a box :crying:
[QUOTE=RBM11;18828259]You mean while that person takes all of your stuff, stuff you will never see again? What if you have family members in other rooms? Are you just going sit back in your room which is probably "barricaded" by a simple lock that can easily be kicked in while you and your family members are in danger? Plus, police response times are incredibly slow in most places.[/QUOTE]
You are now bordering on delusion son, you should probably take a step back.
Firstly the situation you've posed applies only to someone who's intent is to murder a household of people, which would be abundantly clear to any of the victims and they would be justified in the use of force. If we're talking about a burglary then you're even further off. Burglaries are most easily thwarted by simply letting the burglar know you are there and or that the police have been called, if however for some reason this doesn't work you can either let the police do their job and risk letting a thief get away with the meager amount of your possessions they can gather before the police arrive. That's assuming the thief hasn't been thwarted by your presence, will not be caught by the police, and is ballsy enough to stick around long enough to even steal something. Or you can choose to go full Rambo and kill someone over material goods, your choice from then on.
[QUOTE=RBM11;18828259]
What else could she have done? Run? She's an old lady? Call the police at any sound which could be anything and barricade herself in her room, wasting police resources? Beat him up? Again, old lady.
[/QUOTE]
Yes she could have run, or more likely driven to safety since a vehicle was parked directly outside the front side of her house (the opposite side as the break in), either way she's still armed and if Riley had chosen to pursue her she could have fired on him.
[QUOTE=RBM11;18828259]
What's there to rethink? Getting so drunk that you stumble into strangers homes is stupid and yes, you can control how much you drink. It is your responsibility to drink responsibly. Is getting so drunk that you stumble into someone else's home incredibly dangerous? Yes. They could be incredibly paranoid and fire at the site of a human figure. Short term gratification by getting so drunk you break and enter isn't work risking your life.[/QUOTE]
You have just stated twice that: People who drink know what they are going to do once intoxicated, even though they are no longer in full control of their actions.
Really?
[QUOTE=DrMonumbo;18828431]You are now bordering on delusion son, you should probably take a step back.
Firstly the situation you've posed applies only to someone who's intent is to murder a household of people, which would be abundantly clear to any of the victims and they would be justified in the use of force. If we're talking about a burglary then you're even further off. Burglaries are most easily thwarted by simply letting the burglar know you are there and or that the police have been called, if however for some reason this doesn't work you can either let the police do their job and risk letting a thief get away with the meager amount of your possessions they can gather before the police arrive. That's assuming the thief hasn't been thwarted by your presence, will not be caught by the police, and is ballsy enough to stick around long enough to even steal something. Or you can choose to go full Rambo and kill someone over material goods, your choice from then on.
Yes she could have run, or more likely driven to safety since a vehicle was parked directly outside the front side of her house (the opposite side as the break in), either way she's still armed and if Riley had chosen to pursue her she could have fired on him.
You have just stated twice that: People who drink know what they are going to do once intoxicated, even though they are no longer in full control of their actions.
Really?[/QUOTE]
You're justified to use necessary force in any situation when they are on your property, it doesn't just apply to intent to harm the individuals inside. In the event that the burglars aren't thwarted by your presence, what harm would a gun do? It adds a nice bit of persuasion factor, if they truly are ballsy enough then, then they probably should be shot for massive stupidity. Stop spewing bullshit, just because we have the added benefit of a firearm does not mean we're going to shoot him and go Rambo, that's the last thing we want to do.
Refer to above: yes let's leave my house all vulnerable for the robber to clean out before the police arrive which could be a good chunk of valuable stuff depending on what he gets and how much.
Don't get so drunk that you can't tell the difference between reality and you won't end up getting yourself in stupid situations like this. It's not hard.
God damnit Facepunch I fucking swear, someone could shoot a serial murdering rapist pedophile who is holding a kindergarten class hostage with two axes that are on fire and there would [I]still[/I] be 20 pages of nonsensical bitching to deal with.
[QUOTE=Daolpu;18828638]God damnit Facepunch I fucking swear, someone could shoot a serial murdering rapist pedophile who is holding a kindergarten class hostage with two axes that are on fire and there would [I]still[/I] be 20 pages of nonsensical bitching to deal with.[/QUOTE]
b-b-but he should have lived too he had no right to die! those kids should have disarmed him /non-lethally/ or run away! they should be in court.
[QUOTE=Daolpu;18828638]God damnit Facepunch I fucking swear, someone could shoot a serial murdering rapist pedophile who is holding a kindergarten class hostage with two axes that are on fire and there would [I]still[/I] be 20 pages of nonsensical bitching to deal with.[/QUOTE]
But self defense is barbaric!
[QUOTE=TheForeigner;18804740]She should be jailed for murder.
Self defence or not she could have held him at gunpoint and not fire.
Pressing the trigger should have a easy excuse "He was threatening me so i killed him"
Also why kill when you could shoot the guys leg or something and eliminating the threat without killing him.
V-->Dumb americans
V
V[/QUOTE]
You broke in my home and you looked threatening so I shot my 30 aught six into your ass.
Billy Dean Riley's life was incredibly precious seriously like imagine your sweet old grandma hes basically the same as her
[QUOTE=mastermaul;18828719]But self defense is barbaric![/QUOTE]
way to take the argument out of proportion you tool
actually no fuck that his life was MORE precious that your grandmas fuck that old bitch donna should have given him all her shit he deserved it
[QUOTE=Trotsky;18826755]because he's a human being?[/QUOTE]
He made his fucking choice man. Once again, it's not as if he was pushed into a gas chamber.
[QUOTE=TheForeigner;18804740]She should be jailed for murder.
Self defence or not she could have held him at gunpoint and not fire.
Pressing the trigger should have a easy excuse "He was threatening me so i killed him"
Also why kill when you could shoot the guys leg or something and eliminating the threat without killing him.
V-->Dumb americans
V
V[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't expect Europeans to understand. Hell who could with such a violent history like yours. Plus you guys are really into this fad of taking away civil liberties but I guess that has always been the case 'cross the pond.
Good for her.
The police were 10 minutes late. That's 10 whole minutes. If she didn't have a way to defend herself, she could've raped and killed in those 10 minutes. She made the right choice.
[QUOTE=Trotsky;18828051]You can assume the worse, just ready for it, don't instantly go "HURP HE NEEDS TO DIE"[/QUOTE]
I'm not for the death of anybody. He chose his own fate, not the woman.
[QUOTE=Idi Amin;18828854]I'm not for the death of anybody. He chose his own fate, not the woman.[/QUOTE]
I can guarantee that the majority of people who say that the lady did the wrong thing or something of the like would do the same exact thing in her situation.
[QUOTE=Trotsky;18828051]You can assume the worse, just ready for it, don't instantly go "HURP HE NEEDS TO DIE"[/QUOTE]
What should she have done then, in your opinion? I think it's safe to assume the man was a lot stronger her, so she wouldn't have been able to physically restrain him.
Oh my god a 20 page thread of arguing [b]not[/b] caused by thisispain.
I'm proud of you son
[QUOTE=Zeke129;18804563]If the man was armed, good for the lady. If he was unarmed, she should be charged with something. (Not murder, calm down guys)
[url=http://www.facepunch.com/showpost.php?p=18827646&postcount=747]See here for my reasoning[/url][/QUOTE]
hey stop crying baby you're a dumb kid you can't understand why people need to die
[QUOTE=Daolpu;18828638]God damnit Facepunch I fucking swear, someone could shoot a serial murdering rapist pedophile who is holding a kindergarten class hostage with two axes that are on fire and there would [I]still[/I] be 20 pages of nonsensical bitching to deal with.[/QUOTE]
The guy in this story wasn't known to be a serial murdering rapist paedophile, and he didn't have two axes that were on fire.
[editline]11:35PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Daman3456;18829002]hey stop crying baby you're a dumb kid you can't understand why people need to die[/QUOTE]
You post like shit.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;18829011]The guy in this story wasn't known to be a serial murdering rapist paedophile, and he didn't have two axes that were on fire.
[editline]11:35PM[/editline]
You post like shit.[/QUOTE]
No he was just being a violent and threatening a lone ladie's life.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;18829011]The guy in this story wasn't known to be a serial murdering rapist paedophile, and he didn't have two axes that were on fire.[/QUOTE]
welcome to america bitch, you touch my shit I am going to fucking kill you
especially if you threaten me and break my shit
what are you a brit
you obv can't understand survival of the fittest with your communist bullshit over there
[QUOTE=Daman3456;18829032]welcome to america bitch, you touch my shit I am going to fucking kill you
especially if you threaten me and break my shit[/QUOTE]
Please stop, you're embarrassing the rest of us.
[QUOTE=GhostSonic;18829041]Please stop, you're embarrassing the rest of us.[/QUOTE]
no you're dumb
people who threaten anyone's life deserve to be killed by the person they're threatening
[quote]You post like shit. [/quote]
yeah well your the kind of person that gets raped and does nothing to stop the attacker
[QUOTE=Vince323;18806290]ITT facepunch debates whether killing a criminal with the intent to rape and murder you was justified[/QUOTE]
i think this point still stands
Really though, I'm sure if some guy was breaking into your house, and was clearly going to harm you, I'm sure you'd shoot him too.
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