[QUOTE=Explosions;44682400] So my question for capital punishment supporters is what is the number? How many innocents can be killed until it becomes unacceptable?[/QUOTE]
well that is the wicked problem with capital punishment, personally im all for life imprisonment but there are people like the guy in cleveland who are truely sub-human, he litterally was sleeping ontop of a pile of skulls, how can you justify them as being worth anything to society
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44682421]Devils advocate: How many innocent people do we lock up for like 60-70 years before we find out they were innocent and release them. They might as well have died in prison, they aren't going to get to live the way that they could have, and the courts say the same thing as an innocent put to death: "oops".
By this logic, we should imprison no-one, on the off chance they are innocent.[/QUOTE]
The difference being that while we might have ruined their life, they still have one, they get to go free afterwards.
We can't bring back the innocent people who have been executed, they're gone for good.
[QUOTE=soccerskyman;44682431]You do realize that the criminal justice system in the United States is really fucked up, right?[/QUOTE]
compaired to china's or iran's or 90% of the world's justice systems, ya sure
[QUOTE=Sableye;44682437]well that is the wicked problem with capital punishment, personally im all for life imprisonment but there are people like the guy in cleveland who are truely sub-human, he litterally was sleeping ontop of a pile of skulls, how can you justify them as being worth anything to society[/QUOTE]
Well he isn't part of society. He is in prison.
People accused of crimes just as terrible have been found to be innocent. Overzealous police, corruption and mistakes are obviously prevalent within the US Justice system especially. They shouldn't have the power to kill people.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44682400]If you acknowledge that it is possible to make a mistake and execute an innocent person, and you still believe that capital punishment should be practiced, then there must be some number of innocent people that is acceptable to be killed. Otherwise, the number would be zero and you would be against capital punishment. So my question for capital punishment supporters is what is the number? How many innocents can be killed until it becomes unacceptable?[/QUOTE]
At least passing a threshold of 50/50 actual murderers to innocents.
Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;44681632]revenge boners popping[/QUOTE]
Good to hear that buddy.
I'm always disappointing to see people roll out the "but he [I]can't[/I] be rehabilitated, he did XYZ!" as if they have any idea what rehabilitation entails.
[QUOTE=Sableye;44682450]compaired to china's or iran's or 90% of the world's justice systems, ya sure[/QUOTE]
[quote]The incarceration rate in the United States of America is the highest in the world. As of 2009, the incarceration rate was 743 per 100,000 of national population (0.743%). While the United States represents about 5 percent of the world's population, it houses around 25 percent of the world's prisoners.[/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate[/url]
[quote]The effect of incarceration on former prisoners has been a very common topic of discussion for many years. In most cases, it is believed that many prisoners will find themselves right back where they started, in jail. In the United States, 53% of arrested males and 39% of arrested females are re-incarcerated[/quote]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism_in_the_United_States#Recidivism_in_the_United_States[/url]
and don't even get me started on the whole privatized prison system thing...
[QUOTE=wari65;44682455]At least passing a threshold of 50/50 actual murderers to innocents.
Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.[/QUOTE]
Somehow I think being locked up and killed for doing nothing is not what Jefferson was talking about when he said that.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44682421]Devils advocate: How many innocent people do we lock up for like 60-70 years before we find out they were innocent and release them. They might as well have died in prison, they aren't going to get to live the way that they could have, and the courts say the same thing as an innocent put to death: "oops".
By this logic, we should imprison no-one, on the off chance they are innocent.[/QUOTE]
Why even lock up people for 30+ years? What the hell is locking a person inside a building for years on end even achieve?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44682629]Why even lock up people for 30+ years? What the hell is locking a person inside a building for years on end even achieve?[/QUOTE]
Segregation from the public for the public's safety, if there's a legitimate reason to believe the person may be a danger to others and we've failed to rehabilitate them. It's not an ideal measure for sure, but in some cases it could be necessary.
[QUOTE=wari65;44682455]Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.[/QUOTE]
I'd rather prefer seeing my country be destroyed than to live in a country where the attitude is "you should die for the country".
I refuse to believe that that is not a joke post.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;44682635]Segregation from the public for the public's safety, if there's a legitimate reason to believe the person may be a danger to others and we've failed to rehabilitate them. It's not an ideal measure for sure, but in some cases it could be necessary.[/QUOTE]
Well it really depends on the crime. In America, there are far too many people in prison for far too long a period of time, for crimes that don't deserve such high penalties.
[QUOTE=aydin690;44682413]There are statistical outliers in everything.[/QUOTE]
listen man i've got a rock hard boner for normal distributions being used for political purposes because that's been my job for several years now but the concept of using them as a metric for deciding what level of human error is allowed in state sponsored murder is more than a bit fucked in the head and demonstrates a pretty serious problem with empathy and respect for basic human dignity so
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;44682664]Well it really depends on the crime. In America, there are far too many people in prison for far too long a period of time, for crimes that don't deserve such high penalties.[/QUOTE]
Oh sure, I agree. I was just responding to the question as it was phrased.
When you're injecting drain cleaner into people's vocal cords for fun, it's hard to imagine 20 years in prison is going to make you sane. I'm all for rehabilitating and releasing people, but we just don't have the ability to rehabilitate people in 100% of cases (and clearly we don't have to will to even try to rehabilitate a lot of people) so life imprisonment might just be an ugly necessity.
[QUOTE=wari65;44682455]At least passing a threshold of 50/50 actual murderers to innocents.
Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.[/QUOTE] Wow what the fuck?
I agree with people getting the death penalty for inhuman crimes, but there should be absolutely no question about them being innocent.
[QUOTE=Sableye;44682437]well that is the wicked problem with capital punishment, personally im all for life imprisonment but there are people like the guy in cleveland [b]who are truely sub-human[/b], he litterally was sleeping ontop of a pile of skulls, how can you justify them as being worth anything to society[/QUOTE]
God, there are few things that irritate me like this. No, the guy on the skulls would still be human. This prisoner was human, and all those who were executed before him: There aren't exceptions. Being "Human" isn't a state of morality or being that society agrees with, being human simply states what species you are or aren't. At not point in committing crime do you evolve into a demon or what have you and stop being human, you will always be human, and there isn't a power in the world to change that.
It's like people saying that someone went so far that they shouldn't have human rights--they are not things to be taken away as you please. It's why they're rights, not a privilege. And few things could be as dangerous as deciding when someone can or cannot be treated human.
[QUOTE=wari65;44682455]At least passing a threshold of 50/50 actual murderers to innocents.
Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.[/QUOTE]
99.9% Sure he's trolling, guys. On the other .1%, he could be Glenn Beck.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;44682321]
[IMG]http://oi61.tinypic.com/smx8oo.jpg[/IMG]
God bless[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/27/iwao-hakamada-freed_n_5039719.html[/url]
At least you have Japan on that list.
If we have capitol punishment, we should at least try to find the most "humane" way, not by using experimental drugs, and make it as painless as possible. the BBC (I think) did a documentary awhile ago about killing humans "humanely":
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbAmu3DXk5c[/media]
How can you fuck up killing somebody so badly.
I'm all for capital punishment depending on the severity of the crime but only if it's done as 'humanly' as possible.
If you find capital punishment justified somehow, then I would think that you would want it to be done as publicly and as gruesomely as possible. The point is revenge and to send a message. Public torture and execution should be done in that case. Why not go back to slow hanging and disembowelment? That punishment would surly fit the crime, right?
[QUOTE=wari65;44682455]At least passing a threshold of 50/50 actual murderers to innocents.
Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.[/QUOTE]
[quote=autism]Get ready, Wari; here comes the truth train! Wait! Before you dismiss me as prudish, hear me out. He constantly insists that he is a master of precognition, psychokinesis, remote viewing, and other undeveloped human capabilities. But he contradicts himself when he says that antipluralism is absolutely essential to the well-being of society. He finds reality too difficult to swallow. Or maybe it just gets lost between the sports and entertainment pages. In either case, Wari says that he's an irreplaceable shaman who can cure the sick, divine the hidden, and control events. Yet he also wants to irrationalize thinking on every issue. Am I the only one who sees the irony there? I ask because once one begins thinking about free speech, about intrusive rascals who use ostracism and public opinion to prevent the airing of views contrary to their own mindless beliefs, one realizes that I avouch that he's an acrasial degenerate. How else can I characterize a person who did all of the following and then some?
-Fund, assemble, and train polyloquent clods to squabash his opponents
-Shrink the so-called marketplace of ideas down to convenience-store size
-Drain our hope and enthusiasm
I could lengthen this list, but I shall rest my case. The point is that Wari has inadvertently provided us with an instructive example that I find useful in illustrating certain ideas. By treating people like self-centered bloodsuckers, Wari makes it clear that his screeds amount to what a proverbial metaphor in Sanskrit describes as trying to extinguish a fire by feeding it enough wood to glut its appetite. For proof of this fact I must point out that there is historical precedent for his ideologies. Specifically, for as far back as I can remember, Wari has been causing the destruction of human ambition and joy. Given how one uninformed activity always leads to another, it should come as no surprise that we desperately need to detail the specific steps and objectives needed to thwart Wari's nit-picky schemes. It's not enough merely to keep our heads down and pray that Wari doesn't make abhorrent gauleiters out to be something they're not. As I like to say, if you set the bar low, you jump low. Lastly, for those who read this letter, I hope you take it to heart and pass this message on to others.[/quote]
case and point that you're a moron
[QUOTE=Explosions;44682757]If you find capital punishment justified somehow, then I would think that you would want it to be done as publicly and as gruesomely as possible. The point is revenge and to send a message. Public torture and execution should be done in that case. Why not go back to slow hanging and disembowelment? That punishment would surly fit the crime, right?[/QUOTE]
There's a guy at 46 minutes or so in the video glitchvid posted who basically is advocating just that. Painful execution as punishment. Pretty ridiculous.
I support the death penalty because I don't want my money to go towards the torture of life long prisoners. I say get it over with.
I should also mention I say this while I have an uncle in law on death row. Piece of shit raped and murdered child and in my opinion he can go rot in a grave. I don't care what you think of me, it isn't revenge for me it is a safety measure and a way to keep my money from going to the torture of criminals.
When your dog gets old and is suffering do you keep going to the vet and wasting money trying to get medication to take the pain away or do you do whats best for him and put him down?
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;44682819]I support the death penalty [b]because I don't want my money to go towards the torture of life long prisoners. I say get it over with.[/b]
I should also mention I say this while I have an uncle in law on death row. Piece of shit raped and murdered child and in my opinion he can go rot in a grave. I don't care what you think of me, it isn't revenge for me it is a safety measure and a way to keep my money from going to the torture of criminals.
When your dog gets old and is suffering do you keep going to the vet and wasting money trying to get medication to take the pain away or do you do whats best for him and put him down?[/QUOTE]
You do realize that in the long run it costs more money to keep a prisoner on death row than it does if they were to just receive a life sentence, right?
[QUOTE=ccg;44682838]You do realize that in the long run it costs more money to keep a prisoner on death row than it does if they were to just receive a life sentence, right?[/QUOTE]
Did I say that I cared how much it cost? I said I don't want my money to go towards torture.
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;44682862]Did I say that I cared how much it cost? I said I don't want my money to go towards torture.[/QUOTE]
So torture is bad, but murder is ok?
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44682866]It's not really torture.. unless you call being confined torture.[/QUOTE]
For some I it is. But I am more talking about that the fact that prison isn't exactly a smooth operation. If you saw all the horrible treatment that prisoners go through then you would change your tune on what you think is more humane.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;44682871]So torture is bad, but murder is ok?[/QUOTE]
Aw nice way to turn it on me, but no.
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;44682862]Did I say that I cared how much it cost? I said I don't want my money to go towards torture.[/QUOTE]
So we should kill all of the long term inmates?
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