[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44682904]No I wouldnt. Because the method of execution is HORRIBLY painful, it just looks nice and neat, but I guess that's all that really matters.
When is murder not murder? When the state kills someone is it not murder? Let's call a spade a spade. It doesn't matter who's doing the killing, at the end of the day, killing someone is just stooping to their level.[/QUOTE]
It's a lot faster. And you're right murder is murder.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;44682909]So we should kill all of the long term inmates?[/QUOTE]
Those that can be reformed, no.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44682932]Its faster, but HORRIBLY painful. You essentially force their heart to stop beating, and then they suffer for 2-4 minutes while their brain dies.
OR
You be the bigger person, don't stoop to their level, and keep them locked up for their life. Because what's REALLY punishment? Dying, or having to sit and think for 60-70 years?[/QUOTE]
Oh of course sitting there in a cell is worse. But like I said in the beginning I don't want my money to go towards torture.
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;44682952]Oh of course sitting there in a cell is worse. But like I said in the beginning I don't want my money to go towards torture.[/QUOTE]
Then why not make sitting in a cell [I]not worse[/I]? That solves your problem, and doesn't necessitate killing people needlessly.
[QUOTE=ilikecorn;44682957]I'd say the entire execution process is far more torture than sitting in a cell. You know.. with the years of appeals, and that whole "hey we're going to pump chemicals into you that stop your heart and then you'll die after 2-5 min of excruciating pain".[/QUOTE]
Yeah well at least they have something to look forward to, most prisoners on death row beg for death because they are sick of the whole process. On top of that most death row inmates get treated better than those going in for life imprisonment.
I'd rather pay to know that at the end of that time we know what to expect instead of life imprisonment.
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sgt-NiallR;44682971]Then why not make sitting in a cell [I]not worse[/I]? That solves your problem, and doesn't necessitate killing people needlessly.[/QUOTE]
Sure if you can fix that then that would be great.
People usually think I'm immoral for it, but I think people put way too much value on human life from a quantitative point of view instead of a quality point of view. If other people's lives are devoted to destroying the lives of other, then there isn't really a point of having that person around.
Why is it important to save the life of a serial killer? Why is it important to save the life of a person who ruins and takes away the lives of others?
People often ask, "Who are we to take away the life of another human being?" but I don't see the importance of another person living or not if they decide to end the lives of other either. It's not an act of revenge, it's just getting rid of people who kill others.
I'm against the death penalty because I don't believe in the justice system. It's pretty broken and untrustworthy to begin with, and I'd rather not have them handle something as important as whether a person lives or dies.
I would appreciate not being called a barbaric or dumb person for my opinion as it is something I legitimately believe in but I am okay with arguing. I don't think anyone is dumb for believing that there is a value in human life - I just place that value on whether or not they're ruining it for everyone else.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;44683003]People usually think I'm immoral for it, but I think people put way too much value on human life from a quantitative point of view instead of a quality point of view. If other people's lives are devoted to destroying the lives of other, then there isn't really a point of having that person around.
Why is it important to save the life of a serial killer? Why is it important to save the life of a person who ruins and takes away the lives of others?
People often ask, "Who are we to take away the life of another human being?" but I don't see the importance of another person living or not if they decide to end the lives of other either. It's not an act of revenge, it's just getting rid of people who kill others.
I'm against the death penalty because I don't believe in the justice system. It's pretty broken and untrustworthy to begin with, and I'd rather not have them handle something as important as whether a person lives or dies.
[b]I would appreciate not being called a barbaric or dumb person for my opinion as it is something I legitimately believe in but I am okay with arguing. I don't think anyone is dumb for believing that there is a value in human life - I just place that value on whether or not they're ruining it for everyone else.[/b][/QUOTE]
Amen.
the only time i would really think a person cannot be rehabilitated would be if they have some serious mental disorders, which i don't think someone deserves to die because they can't control their actions due to the way they were born. i think the prison system needs a serious overhaul though cause i agree with you nazereth666 as it is now it may as well be torture and all it does is breed lifetime criminals
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;44682819]I support the death penalty because I don't want my money to go towards the torture of life long prisoners. I say get it over with.
I should also mention I say this while I have an uncle in law on death row. Piece of shit raped and murdered child and in my opinion he can go rot in a grave. I don't care what you think of me, it isn't revenge for me it is a safety measure and a way to keep my money from going to the torture of criminals.
When your dog gets old and is suffering do you keep going to the vet and wasting money trying to get medication to take the pain away or do you do whats best for him and put him down?[/QUOTE]
Your dog tends not to spend decades appealing their sentence.
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44683213]the only time i would really think a person cannot be rehabilitated would be if they have some serious mental disorders, which i don't think someone deserves to die because they can't control their actions due to the way they were born. i think the prison system needs a serious overhaul though cause i agree with you nazereth666 as it is now it may as well be torture and all it does is breed lifetime criminals[/QUOTE]
The vast majority of criminals in general have some sort of mental disease or disability.
[QUOTE=Explosions;44683237]The vast majority of criminals in general have some sort of mental disease or disability.[/QUOTE]
vast you reckon? i know it's a huge problem but i thought the largest group would just be people stuck in poverty
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;44683245]vast you reckon? i know it's a huge problem but i thought the largest group would just be people stuck in poverty[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.nami.org/Template.cfm?Section=Top_Story&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=38174[/url]
"The release today of a study by the U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) showing than 64 percent of local jail inmates, 56 percent of state prisoners and 45 percent of federal prisoners have symptoms of serious mental illnesses is an indictment of the nation’s mental healthcare system."
There are other interesting articles out there as well. The bottom line is that a great deal of those in our jails and prisons have some degree of mental illness.
[QUOTE=aydin690;44682413]There are statistical outliers in everything.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, outliers are fine when it comes to producing fucking candy bars, number of people who eat spiders, or number of cats per household, but this is about [I]people LITERALLY fucking BEING KILED.[/I] You absolutely CANNOT have ANY outliers at all in a situation like this, because you can't go back and bring them back to life, and you can't just go "sorry, dude" to your accidental murder victim's family.
The fact that we've had over 140 INNOCENT PEOPLE on death row in the last 40 years is proof that the system is completely unnecessary and inhumane. Just keep them in a goddamn jail cell until they die, are you people that out for vengeance that you can't stand the fact that they EXIST?
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=wauterboi;44683003]People usually think I'm immoral for it, but I think people put way too much value on human life from a quantitative point of view instead of a quality point of view. If other people's lives are devoted to destroying the lives of other, then there isn't really a point of having that person around.[/QUOTE]
could you please elaborate on this, really.
like, what should we do with the "undesirables?" that end up murdering and raping people? should we round them up and put them somewhere [I]before[/I] they ruin other people's lives? should we have licenses in order to have children, which require intensive hereditary background checks to see if you'll make an "undesirable" child?
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Nazereth666;44682819]When your dog gets old and is suffering do you keep going to the vet and wasting money trying to get medication to take the pain away or do you do whats best for him and put him down?[/QUOTE]
people aren't dogs you dingus. not even close, come up with another analogy.
[QUOTE=wari65;44682455]At least passing a threshold of 50/50 actual murderers to innocents.
Yes, while the losses are tragic, dying for one's own country is one of the greatest honors a citizen can have. Afterall, the tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with with blood of patriots.[/QUOTE]
america isn't a vengeful deity as much as it seems like it wants to be sometimes
I'm not sure where you got the idea that I want to determine who is or isn't an "undesirable" before they commit a crime. That's a weird way to interpret what I said.
What I'm saying is if someone's going to go around killing people why bother having them around? What's the point? What is it about their life that is precious? Why is a man evil for ending another evil man's life?
It would be something if we could study those people but it's apparently illegal to do so.
only way i would ever support execution was if it was a prisoner with a life sentence making the decision to be put to death on their own, after going through the same processes and checks that an assisted suicide patient would go through. even that, though, has a chance of being corrupted.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44683358]Yeah, outliers are fine when it comes to producing fucking candy bars, number of people who eat spiders, or number of cats per household, but this is about [I]people LITERALLY fucking BEING KILED.[/I] You absolutely CANNOT have ANY outliers at all in a situation like this, because you can't go back and bring them back to life, and you can't just go "sorry, dude" to your accidental murder victim's family.
The fact that we've had over 140 INNOCENT PEOPLE on death row in the last 40 years is proof that the system is completely unnecessary and inhumane. Just keep them in a goddamn jail cell until they die, are you people that out for vengeance that you can't stand the fact that they EXIST?
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
could you please elaborate on this, really.
like, what should we do with the "undesirables?" that end up murdering and raping people? should we round them up and put them somewhere [I]before[/I] they ruin other people's lives? should we have licenses in order to have children, which require intensive hereditary background checks to see if you'll make an "undesirable" child?
[editline]29th April 2014[/editline]
[b]people aren't dogs you dingus. not even close, come up with another analogy.[/b][/QUOTE]
I'm comparing a situation, not an object. By the way my name is Naz, now you don't have to refer to me as dingus.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;44683358]people aren't dogs you dingus. not even close, come up with another analogy.[/QUOTE]
People still suffer, don't they? He's not saying people are dogs.
For people that ask for humanity and what not, they really do ignore the fact that sometimes death is a way, way better option than rotting away in a jail cell for the rest of their lives. Yeah, it shouldn't be that way, but it is. And we aren't getting any closer to that utopian justice system everyone talks about.
I continue to ask the question of why it is important to conserve [I]all[/I] life. The suggestion that anti-death penalty make in that humans should have the right to life is that the life of a murderer is just as necessary as the life of a mother when that is clearly not the case.
I am a man who believes that murderers are often made out to be inhuman which is not the correct mentality to have when understanding each other or the human mind. If I weren't to have pursued my career in computer science and music then I would have pursued a life in forensics and psychology. I have a friend who is diagnosed with schizophrenia and she scares people who do not understand her. She is not a murderer, but just as she can sometimes scare off people, I believe there is a reason why people become what people define as "monsters" whether it be completely mental or after a period of abuse. I have a fascination with serial killers, most notably Jeffery Dahmer, who was locked away in a prison until he was stabbed to death by another inmate.
I am also a man who is aware of our current possibilities. We can lock up our killers forever and put them in a place as terrible as our prison system, or we can kill them and save both the killer and our society different troubles. I just don't trust our justice system to make the decision, which is why I am against it. I am not against it because "life is precious" but because our justice system is messed up.
If you cannot hold an argument without shutting out what everyone else is saying and laughing at them, then perhaps you shouldn't be arguing at all. That's not a healthy way to argue.
[QUOTE=ccg;44682838]You do realize that in the long run it costs more money to keep a prisoner on death row than it does if they were to just receive a life sentence, right?[/QUOTE]
Because the American death penalty system is a joke
I know the death penalty/execution has been around for many millenia, but I really don't see what gives anyone the right to tell someone they're going to execute them and then do it. Being in prison for many years would obviously make anyone want to die, but I say let them rot in prison.
Yeah yeah, prison overcrowding, etc. Just build a huge underground maximum security facility where there's only one exit that is guarded by mole people.
prison is too expensive
I am glad I live in a slightly more civilized country where not everyone gets off at the thought of murdering murderers
Oh, Murderers have rights? That's why you agree on taking away their right to freedom but not taking away their right to live?
You're conflating two separate ideas as if they were some how mutually inclusive. The right to life is the default state of humanity while the right to freedom is actually the ability to act at one's own accord once the restrictions that civil society necessarily imposes are factored in. When people talk of having freedom they're just talking about living the way of life their society has decided its people will live like. To westerners, this would of course be our liberalised way of life.
e: to clarify, the restrictions I talked about are the provisos that rights mean to have the responsibility to not violate others rights or the law. The consequence of which is punishment
As an oklahoman, with a daughter only a few months younger than the child raped by one of the men, I fully support their deaths. Particularly the man who raped the baby. I don't give a damn what anyone says, if you think we should try to rehabilitate someone who fucked a baby to death you're a goddamn fool, and sound equal to the stupidity these men showed. Death happens, it happens everyday. Pointless, systematic murder, by civilians, to big government widowers, and anything in between. To cause, or even want an uproar over these 2 sorry fucks is sickening, so goddamn sickening to my stomach. I hope whatever they injected and failed with caused a unique and special pain for them. I literally logged back into my account after months of ghosting just to say how I felt about these guys. It gives me a special rage and fear for the safety of my daughter. No one should have to worry that a man will fuck their children to death, or bury them alive 20 years down the road. It's wasted life, good life, for the few agonizing minutes these fucks got off to. If america had such a thing as public execution by the public, I'd be front and center for these guys.
[QUOTE=clc666;44685415]No one should have to worry that a man will fuck their children to death, or bury them alive 20 years down the road.[/QUOTE]
Well the death penalty certainly isn't going to prevent that from happening considering, you know, that it's not actually an effective deterrent.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44685436]Well the death penalty certainly isn't going to prevent that from happening considering, you know, that it's not actually an effective deterrent.[/QUOTE]
That's because these people don't really care, they aren't scared to die. But, they want to live, so they can keep doing it.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;44685436]Well the death penalty certainly isn't going to prevent that from happening considering, you know, that it's not actually an effective deterrent.[/QUOTE]
Ask Vlad the Impaler whether his methods and death penalty were effective detterents (protip: They were, admittedly they were horrendous ways of execution, but it worked)
[QUOTE=RayvenQ;44685481]Ask Vlad the Impaler whether his methods and death penalty were effective detterents (protip: They were, admittedly they were horrendous ways of execution, but it worked)[/QUOTE]
I mean hey, maybe if I put a bunch of Wallachian soldiers on pikes in my front lawn it'll stop a burglar at some point. Still probably not a great idea, though.
[QUOTE=Megafan;44685529]I mean hey, maybe if I put a bunch of Wallachian soldiers on pikes in my front lawn I probably won't get robbed. Still probably not a great idea, though.[/QUOTE]
The strategy was effective though, Impaling turkish prisoners (which were who were impaled in this strategy) on the borders turned back a fucking huge army lead by someone who wasn't noted for sqeamishness.
Lets put a golden chalice in the middle of a town and see how long it takes for someone to steal it.
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;44681711]I really don't understand why we use lethal injection, like I'm against the death penalty, but it seems like such a fucking crapshoot. It seems only slightly better than being hung.
I'll take a firing squad over lethal injection any day.[/QUOTE]
I'd want to go out classically. Get me a man in a hood to take my head off with an axe.
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