California Governor Jerry Brown signs bill that will increase minimum wage to $15/hour by 2022 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=cody8295;50069736]When you 0ay people a living wage then they dont have to live paycheck to paycheck, meaning they have more spending money which stimulates the economy balancing out the higher wages. [/QUOTE] My point was the minimum wage will [I]never [/I]be a living wage, the economy will adjust for it.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50070438]My point was the minimum wage will [I]never [/I]be a living wage, the economy will adjust for it.[/QUOTE] The minimum wage always has been a living wage, why did it change?

[QUOTE=cody8295;50070496]The minimum wage always has been a living wage, why did it change?[/QUOTE] trickle down economics

[QUOTE=cody8295;50069736]When you 0ay people a living wage then they dont have to live paycheck to paycheck, meaning they have more spending money which stimulates the economy balancing out the higher wages. [editline]4th April 2016[/editline] Wtf are you even talking about? I'm talking about using the threat of violence (a law) to force employers to pay their employees a living wage[/QUOTE] that first thing breaks all laws of economics

I'm gonna quit my job and go flip burgers something something something

[QUOTE=mr kjerr;50070621]that first thing breaks all laws of economics[/QUOTE] Really? Many economists would agree with that basic principle.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50070496]The minimum wage always has been a living wage, why did it change?[/QUOTE] Like when Adjusting for inflation the highest is ever been is just over $10.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50070496]The minimum wage always has been a living wage, why did it change?[/QUOTE] its not pegged to inflation, meaning it requires an act of god to basically get an across the board wage increase, while inflation goes along merrily every year oh you were responding to someone else

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50070762]Like when Adjusting for inflation the highest is ever been is just over $10.[/QUOTE] Pre mellenials, most families could get by on a single income. Now you'd be lucky to make ends meet with dual income. Minimum wage is a reality for millions of americans, not just high school kids

[QUOTE=cody8295;50070813]Pre mellenials, most families could get by on a single income. Now you'd be lucky to make ends meet with dual income. Minimum wage is a reality for millions of americans, not just high school kids[/QUOTE] And was that single income minimum wage? Like I said at most it's only ever been $10 after adjusting for inflation. Less according to pew. [Img]http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2015/05/FT_15.05.20_minWage_1938_2014.png[/img] And here's income [IMG]http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/09/FT_13.9.17_CensusIncome_Age_420px.png[/IMG] You best start posting some facts with sources otherwise you're just living in a fantasy world

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50070876]And was that single income minimum wage? Like I said at most it's only ever been $10 after adjusting for inflation. Less according to pew. [Img]http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2015/05/FT_15.05.20_minWage_1938_2014.png[/img] And here's income [IMG]http://www.pewresearch.org/files/2013/09/FT_13.9.17_CensusIncome_Age_420px.png[/IMG] You best start posting some facts with sources otherwise you're just living in a fantasy world[/QUOTE] So you think millions of people working 40 hours a week deserve to be in poverty? That's all you had to say

[QUOTE=cody8295;50070921]So you think millions of people working 40 hours a week deserve to be in poverty? That's all you had to say[/QUOTE] So rather than form an argument and get real sources you don't read my post and instead make shit up since I never said nor implied that. Poverty is terrible but raising the minimum wage will not help solve it.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50070941]So rather than form an argument and get real sources you don't read my post and instead make shit up since I never said nor implied that. Poverty is terrible but raising the minimum wage will not help solve it.[/QUOTE] I don't usually get involved in these arguments, as I'm not that good with words, but here we go. When the minimum wage law was first created, it was a living wage. Since then, productivity has gone up way more than inflation, and [url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/18/elizabeth-warren-minimum-wage_n_2900984.html]minimum wage hasn't kept up[/url]. Where the fuck has the extra money from the higher productivity gone? Certainly not into the pockets of the workers. The rich keep taking a higher proportion of profits, and it needs to stop. Having a living wage from a 40 hour work week really isn't much to ask.

Still would love a source about the minimum wage ever being a living wage (not "FDR claimed it should be" but actually was ever in its 80 year history a living wage). As per the graph (and any you can find) on the last page when it started it was about $4 in today's money. It has always been below the poverty line. Raising the minimum wage will not change this the economy will adjust for it. You're fooling yourself if you think CEOs/shareholders will accept less profit margins due to an increase in wages. Not to mention the cost of products by minimum wage workers (eg walmart, mcdonalds, etc) will go up. And these are the places with generally the cheapest goods that said minimum wage workers buy from (because they have to), so it doesn't benefit them at all. And just because productivity has increased doesn't mean the cost of living / poverty line has increase as much. Minimum wage is tied to the latter according to your own arguments of it being "a living" wage (not a fair wage). Is it fair that pay hasn't gone up? No. But welcome to real life! You can force companies to pay more for wages but that doesn't stop them from increasing prices and/or cutting jobs to compensate. This isn't a closed system. Even if it was closed within the scope of the United States all that would do would be to make US goods even more expensive and less competitive with the rest of the world.

[QUOTE=cody8295;50067612]It should be 22 dollars by now but corporate interests still rule us[/QUOTE] you do realise that much of the gains in productivity have been sucked up into insurance premiums right, like that's why wages are stagnating among production/non supervisory workers

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50071533]Still would love a source about the minimum wage ever being a living wage (not "FDR claimed it should be" but actually was ever in its 80 year history a living wage). As per the graph (and any you can find) on the last page when it started it was about $4 in today's money. It has always been below the poverty line. Raising the minimum wage will not change this the economy will adjust for it. You're fooling yourself if you think CEOs/shareholders will accept less profit margins due to an increase in wages. Not to mention the cost of products by minimum wage workers (eg walmart, mcdonalds, etc) will go up. And these are the places with generally the cheapest goods that said minimum wage workers buy from (because they have to), so it doesn't benefit them at all. And just because productivity has increased doesn't mean the cost of living / poverty line has increase as much. Minimum wage is tied to the latter according to your own arguments of it being "a living" wage (not a fair wage). Is it fair that pay hasn't gone up? No. But welcome to real life! You can force companies to pay more for wages but that doesn't stop them from increasing prices and/or cutting jobs to compensate. This isn't a closed system. Even if it was closed within the scope of the United States all that would do would be to make US goods even more expensive and less competitive with the rest of the world.[/QUOTE] Doesn't stop new companies from entering the market, taking advantage of companies raising the prices by releasing similar products at the old prices. They would instantly win over 75% of the market and kill their competition.

Thankfully I'm going to college good luck on minimum wage I don't know how people do it. Worrying about bills and shit is horrible. But the minimum wage being raised is kind of dumb if it's to high because then why would you go to school? You wouldn't need to so it's a tricky discussion. I don't believe it's big business's fault it's a combination of government regulations. They fail to regulate college prices, college loans, tax evasion by business's, and the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage alone isn't going to solve much, at least in my opinion.

[QUOTE=thrawn2787;50071533]Still would love a source about the minimum wage ever being a living wage (not "FDR claimed it should be" but actually was ever in its 80 year history a living wage). As per the graph (and any you can find) on the last page when it started it was about $4 in today's money. It has always been below the poverty line. Raising the minimum wage will not change this the economy will adjust for it. You're fooling yourself if you think CEOs/shareholders will accept less profit margins due to an increase in wages. Not to mention the cost of products by minimum wage workers (eg walmart, mcdonalds, etc) will go up. And these are the places with generally the cheapest goods that said minimum wage workers buy from (because they have to), so it doesn't benefit them at all. And just because productivity has increased doesn't mean the cost of living / poverty line has increase as much. Minimum wage is tied to the latter according to your own arguments of it being "a living" wage (not a fair wage). Is it fair that pay hasn't gone up? No. But welcome to real life! You can force companies to pay more for wages but that doesn't stop them from increasing prices and/or cutting jobs to compensate. This isn't a closed system. Even if it was closed within the scope of the United States all that would do would be to make US goods even more expensive and less competitive with the rest of the world.[/QUOTE] So people should just resign themselves to poverty

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50071730]So people should just resign themselves to poverty[/QUOTE] Yes.

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;50071703]I love when cities and states do shit like raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. I love it. You want to know what this means? This means that now it's cheaper for companies to innovate with technology than to pay for people to do menial jobs that can be performed by robots and other devices. I can't wait for the day when I can customize my order how I like it on a touch screen computer at every fast food restaurant.[/QUOTE] I hear that I'd rather deal with a computer than a person that doesn't even care about the job they're doing. That attitude they give you and stuff like that is so immature and stupid. Not everyone does it but seriously if you can't do your job with a smile on your face find something else. It's doing shitty jobs that motivated me to go to college and that's why I think low paying jobs serve a purpose. If someone fails to even want to improve their own life then why is it some corporate business's job to make sure they skate through life with no problems on minimum wage? You should be able to make enough to live on minimum wage but that's it in my opinion. You shouldn't be able to live like a king on minimum wage. If you want to do that then you need to figure out how to get more than minimum wage skills via school. You need to have a passion and love what you do to be successful.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;50069353]If you can't produce labour worth $15 an hour maybe you shouldn't be in employment to begin with.[/QUOTE] fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccckkkkkk ooooooffffffffff wwwwwwiiiiiiiiithh thaaaaat shiiiiiiiit. I shouldn't have to work myself to death just to make a fucking living. I do contract work in one of the largest data storage facilities in the US (Mainly renovations, painting and the like) and I still only make 10 dollars an hour. I bust my ass most days while I watch people get paid 15-20 dollars an hour to pick their nose and talk about the latest celebrity gossip or some shit. I don't even make enough money to afford a one room apartment in my area. Any person who works full time should be making, at bare fucking minimum, enough to have a roof over their head and food. And yes, that includes people that flip burgers, mop floors, and do all the menial shit that you think is below you. You never diminish the status of the people that do the 'lower class' job, because they're just as fucking important.

[QUOTE=apierce1289;50071670]Thankfully I'm going to college good luck on minimum wage I don't know how people do it. Worrying about bills and shit is horrible. But the minimum wage being raised is kind of dumb if it's to high because then why would you go to school? You wouldn't need to so it's a tricky discussion. I don't believe it's big business's fault it's a combination of government regulations. They fail to regulate college prices, college loans, tax evasion by business's, and the minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage alone isn't going to solve much, at least in my opinion.[/QUOTE] College degrees don't mean much 100% of the time. My friend spent 8 years in college to get a Master's with some computer tech degree and is now working full time in a computer company for what his degree was designed for. I, on the other hand, found a job at a warehouse and am currently making +$4/h than him on day 1, with more medical and leave benefits. A degree can be helpful, but it's by far no guarantee of anything. [editline]5th April 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Fire Kracker;50069380]what is labor worth $15 an hour then please enlighten me soldiers are paid less than minimum wage, yet a job in [I]printing labels[/I] can get you $14 an hour an office job paying $20+ can involve sitting around, and browsing facebook a job restocking a store, cleaning the floor nearly every day, and dealing with shitty people will pay you $8[/QUOTE] Soldiers don't become soldiers for the daily wage, what a dumb point to use

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50071869] [editline]5th April 2016[/editline] Soldiers don't become soldiers for the daily wage, what a dumb point to use[/QUOTE] r u saying they shouldnt be paid a minimum

[QUOTE=kyle877;50071888]r u saying they shouldnt be paid a minimum[/QUOTE] I'm saying soldiers being paid less than minimum wage is irrelevant because they're not 'working' for the 'wage'.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50071894]I'm saying soldiers being paid less than minimum wage is irrelevant because they're not 'working' for the 'wage'.[/QUOTE] Since they're not 'working' for their 'wage', as you put it, they shouldn't be paid well for doing one of the hardest jobs out there? Am I reading you right? How is that irrelevant?

[QUOTE=FinalHunter;50071703]I love when cities and states do shit like raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. I love it. You want to know what this means? This means that now it's cheaper for companies to innovate with technology than to pay for people to do menial jobs that can be performed by robots and other devices. I can't wait for the day when I can customize my order how I like it on a touch screen computer at every fast food restaurant.[/QUOTE] More jobs for STEM!

[QUOTE=kyle877;50071899]Since they're not 'working' for their 'wage', as you put it, they shouldn't be paid well for doing one of the hardest jobs out there? Am I reading you right? How is that irrelevant?[/QUOTE] You clearly have no idea what soldiers get other than wage, do you. [editline]5th April 2016[/editline] You realize that a man entering service at 18 can [I]retire[/I] at the age of [I]38[/I] if he stays the whole career?

[QUOTE=Jcw87;50071353]I don't usually get involved in these arguments, as I'm not that good with words, but here we go. When the minimum wage law was first created, it was a living wage. Since then, productivity has gone up way more than inflation, and [URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/18/elizabeth-warren-minimum-wage_n_2900984.html"]minimum wage hasn't kept up[/URL]. Where the fuck has the extra money from the higher productivity gone? Certainly not into the pockets of the workers. The rich keep taking a higher proportion of profits, and it needs to stop. Having a living wage from a 40 hour work week really isn't much to ask.[/QUOTE] For clarities sake: that $22/h "adjusted for inflation" number is total BS. It takes one of the highest minimum wages we've ever had and uses it as the starting point. The original minimum wage adjusted for inflation would be about $4.19 today ([URL]http://money.cnn.com/interactive/economy/minimum-wage-since-1938/[/URL]).

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50071909]You clearly have no idea what soldiers get other than wage, do you.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'm actually quite familiar with how much our military gets paid, and what they get other than wage. More than you think. Please though, try and justify those benefits for underpaying people that live and die for the country. Edit: [QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;50071909] You realize that a man entering service at 18 can [I]retire[/I] at the age of [I]38[/I] if he stays the whole career?[/QUOTE] Yeah, and that's pretty cool, but what about the people that don't want to make a life-long career out of that? Fuck them?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50071730]So people should just resign themselves to poverty[/QUOTE] ~2% of the working population works at minimum wage and is over the age of 25, and that includes tipped workers who end up making far more than the minimum. ([URL]http://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/cps/characteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf[/URL])