Well shit, guess i have to go find myself a pirate boat.
[QUOTE=DeanWinchester;37114050]Yes, these struggling companies are indeed very poor :v:
Understand something, people who pirate will either:
1. Buy the product if they enjoy it.
2. Not buy it at all.
If 1. happens, piracy is actually helping the product seller as an advertisement medium, sure it's an illegal way of try before buy but still helps the company.
If 2. happens no sale is lost because the person who pirated was never going to buy it in the first place.
How do I know this?
It's simple really, people enjoy having first hand on everything, they enjoy shiny covers and collector editions, but they won't pay for something that is SHIT, that's why a lot of people download something before actually buying it, to see if it's good, if it isn't there's no point in buying it, you might argue that they still got entertainment from it without paying but what's so different than listening to music, playing a game or watching a movie that your friend has bought? If you enjoy it you leave your friend's house with your mind set on buying it for yourself.
There is only one way to stop piracy:
1. If every country stops fighting it, the more you try to stop something organic such as a pirate hive mind the more it fights back and the more it provokes you.
2. If products stop being overpriced (why should a digital album cost as much as a physical one when the costs of distributing an album through a digital medium is much less than that of retail? same applies to games, movies, etc.)
3. Make good products, and people will buy them.[/QUOTE]
The responsibility to market their products is the responsibility of the company. Saying it's okay to pirate it because it's just a demo (game)/a view (film)/a listen (music) isn't okay, it's just self-justifying after the fact.
Also there is no way to [i]stop[/i] piracy. Like there is no way to stop any other myriad of crimes like theft, child pornography, adware/badware/spyware, or any physical or digital crime. There are ways to strongly curb its reach. Honestly if people stopped throwing shit everytime anybody suggested government monitoring of packet information, we'd be a lot closer to reasonable fines and punishments for piracy, and from there it's simply a crackdown.
This is a service issue, it's always been a service issue. Piracy in the games industry has been pretty much solved by Steam. I don't know about you, but I never pirate games anymore, at all.
As an Australian, it's almost frickin' impossible for me to obtain TV Shows and movies legally. DVD Releases are often years after the cinema release and still require me to [B]pay extra[/B] for a copy that will slowly die, is filled with stupid piracy warnings, adverts for stuff I'll never watch and due to the age component, is now irrelevant, restricted resolution and format and finally, that I am I unable to obtain without using car fuel, or a kilometre or so walk. That last one is the real kicker, and I get it, I'm lazy, but a service for lazier people is always a better service, yet the media industry simply can't keep up.
So what options are there for me?
Netflix? Completely unavaliable, not even existant. I don't know why, the only logical reason that's ever been presented is regional pricing, yet the exchange rate has been slightly under or over par for longer than a year now and this is essentially dumb issue anyway, I hate regional pricing.
iTunes then?
Well, apart from the massive EULA and the massive deterrent for me that it's owned by Apple (shhh), it's usually slow, poor quality, rarely if ever released at a decent time, and often just plain missing bits and pieces of shows.
There's like three companies that own almost all the avaliable media, I don't understand why it's such a problem to hire like four web developers and a bunch of servers to make a decent system. Whether it be title based; pay like $20 for a new movie (on the CINEMA damn release date) and it can decrease in price later, or a subscription where you pay whatever a month for all avaliable content (I would easily pay $40-50 a month for this).
I don't think it'd take long to catch on, and soon you're making a killing while wiping out a huge portion of the distribution costs. This process would cost a boatload less than they're spending on anti-piracy.
I realise this thread is about demonoid, specifically, but it's just another blow to the head in a massive waste of time.
This is never going to end because the US loves being rammed up the ass by every corporation that wants to bribe them, whether their demands even resemble reality or not.
[QUOTE=scout1;37114725]The responsibility to market their products is the responsibility of the company. Saying it's okay to pirate it because it's just a demo (game)/a view (film)/a listen (music) isn't okay, it's just self-justifying after the fact.
Also there is no way to [i]stop[/i] piracy. Like there is no way to stop any other myriad of crimes like theft, child pornography, adware/badware/spyware, or any physical or digital crime. There are ways to strongly curb its reach. Honestly if people stopped throwing shit everytime anybody suggested government monitoring of packet information, we'd be a lot closer to reasonable fines and punishments for piracy, and from there it's simply a crackdown.[/QUOTE]
You strike me as the type of person who watches TV for the commercials. "Reasonable fines and punishments" LOL, do some research into the cases that have come up against people who have pirated games/movies/music. Fair and reasonable doesn't apply to these cases at all, they sue people for downloading a movie that would have cost them 10-20 bucks, and ask for tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, these people are SOO pushing for fair and reasonable ways to hold pirates accountable...
[QUOTE=Ybbats;37115080]You strike me as the type of person who watches TV for the commercials. "Reasonable fines and punishments" LOL, do some research into the cases that have come up against people who have pirated games/movies/music. Fair and reasonable doesn't apply to these cases at all, they sue people for downloading a movie that would have cost them 10-20 bucks, and ask for tens of thousands of dollars. Yes, these people are SOO pushing for fair and reasonable ways to hold pirates accountable...[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is the kind of shit I am arguing against. Regular monitoring of packet information (i.e. the government doesn't care about what weird porn you look at) would give way to a system where regular punishments and fines could be instituted. That way it could be criminally defined as piracy, not civilly as copyright infringement.
R.I.P.
[QUOTE=BadDrum;37112390]LAND OF THE FREE LAND OF THE BRAVE
[/QUOTE]
Read the article.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37108084]Some people like to sample something before they purchase it. Digital resources are infinite, so nothing is being 'taken away' when someone pirates something, per say. Products may gain support from people who'd simply wished to sample them before hand, and those who download for keeps only take away from the company if they had payed the service for the download, (which isn't ever the case).
How government bodies and companies battle piracy is usually unethical and ineffective too, and some of those methods of negating it only screw over the consumer.
I'm just g I've never bought a game or digital album with any sort of digital rights management, and I never will.[/QUOTE]
Never bought a game with DRM before, yet you have a Steam account. funny.
The "games won't be pirated if they don't have DRM" argument is BS. Look at World of Goo for example. [url=http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21123]2D Boy estimates that 80-90% of WoG copies were pirated, and that preventing 1000 piracy attempts resulted in a single sale.[/url]
[editline]6th August 2012[/editline]
Also, OP, I'm preeetttyyy sure "TorrentFreak" may be a biased source.
Guys, [B]GUYS[/B].
I have the best idea in the world.
Why doesn't Facepunch buy Sealand,
[B]AND TURN IT INTO A CLOUD SERVER.[/B]
It's in the middle of nowhere, it's independent from any country, annnnd we can declare war on other countries! :v:
rip in peace demonoid
hardly knew ye
[QUOTE=ewitwins;37116563]Guys, [B]GUYS[/B].
I have the best idea in the world.
Why doesn't Facepunch buy Sealand,
[B]AND TURN IT INTO A CLOUD SERVER.[/B]
It's in the middle of nowhere, it's independent from any country, annnnd we can declare war on other countries! :v:[/QUOTE]
Because nobody cares about your want-to-be-a-software-pirate-land. The authorities will drive a boat up, seize your equipment, and throw your ass in jail.
[QUOTE=scout1;37116754]Because nobody cares about your want-to-be-a-software-pirate-land. The authorities will drive a boat up, seize your equipment, and throw your ass in jail.[/QUOTE]
Strong arm of the law! Obey!
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37116537]Never bought a game with DRM before, yet you have a Steam account. funny.
The "games won't be pirated if they don't have DRM" argument is BS. Look at World of Goo for example. [url=http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=21123]2D Boy estimates that 80-90% of WoG copies were pirated, and that preventing 1000 piracy attempts resulted in a single sale.[/url]
[editline]6th August 2012[/editline]
Also, OP, I'm preeetttyyy sure "TorrentFreak" may be a biased source.[/QUOTE]
The "games won't be pirated if they don't have DRM" argument? Wtf kind of argument is that? People release DRM-free games because they don't mind the loss of sales, maybe because they realize the world is a big place full of people who don't always have things so good, and if they can make a few bucks whilst doing what they enjoy and making people everywhere happy, that it's a worthwhile endeavor.
[QUOTE=Ybbats;37117013]The "games won't be pirated if they don't have DRM" argument? Wtf kind of argument is that? People release DRM-free games because they don't mind the loss of sales, maybe because they realize the world is a big place full of people who don't always have things so good, and if they can make a few bucks whilst doing what they enjoy and making people everywhere happy, that it's a worthwhile endeavor.[/QUOTE]
DRM also encourages piracy due to the restrictions placed on DRM locked games, restrictions that aren't present on pirated versions because obviously it's a cracked copy then.
[QUOTE=scout1;37116754]Because nobody cares about your want-to-be-a-software-pirate-land. The authorities will drive a boat up, seize your equipment, and throw your ass in jail.[/QUOTE]
You're a hit at parties aren't you?
[QUOTE=Legend286;37117091]DRM also encourages piracy due to the restrictions placed on DRM locked games, restrictions that aren't present on pirated versions because obviously it's a cracked copy then.[/QUOTE]
What about Steam? Massive DRM right there.
[QUOTE=Legend286;37109419]Russia.[/QUOTE]
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztVMib1T4T4[/media]
Russia has a large and well-trained army. So does the US. Russia has a huge nuclear stockpile. So does the US. But the US has about twenty nine hundred more than anyone else, including Russia. Nobody will fuck with the US unless it's over some serious shit. Nobody. Certainly not over something stupid like copyright infringement.
[editline]7th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ryder1337;37117701]You're a hit at parties aren't you?[/QUOTE]
Go easy on him. It's a tough room.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37117788]What about Steam? Massive DRM right there.[/QUOTE]
Steam can be [I]really fucking annoying[/I] at times, but it's not like it instantly kicks you out of a game if your internet drops, it has a (buggy) offline mode, and the built-in friends system and nearly constant sales help make it more acceptable.
[QUOTE=scout1;37114725]The responsibility to market their products is the responsibility of the company. Saying it's okay to pirate it because it's just a demo (game)/a view (film)/a listen (music) isn't okay, it's just self-justifying after the fact.
Also there is no way to [i]stop[/i] piracy. Like there is no way to stop any other myriad of crimes like theft, child pornography, adware/badware/spyware, or any physical or digital crime. There are ways to strongly curb its reach. Honestly if people stopped throwing shit everytime anybody suggested government monitoring of packet information, we'd be a lot closer to reasonable fines and punishments for piracy, and from there it's simply a crackdown.[/QUOTE]
Hey, if you like the government knowing what kind of porn you watch, what you read, etc, be my guest (unless you're some kind of saint, we all have something we don't want others to know). Besides, it's usually not the government that applies the fine, it's the companies themselves taking the pirate(s) to court and asking for thousands more than what the pirate downloaded in compensations.
[QUOTE=DeanWinchester;37121347]Hey, if you like the government knowing what kind of porn you watch, what you read, etc, be my guest (unless you're some kind of saint, we all have something we don't want others to know). Besides, it's usually not the government that applies the fine, it's the companies themselves taking the pirate(s) to court and asking for thousands more than what the pirate downloaded in compensations.[/QUOTE]
Read.
[QUOTE=scout1;37115320]Yes, that is the kind of shit I am arguing against. [b]Regular monitoring[/b] of packet information (i.e. the government doesn't care about what weird porn you look at) would give way to a system where regular punishments and fines could be instituted. That way it could be [b]criminally defined as piracy, not civilly as copyright infringement.[/b][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37116537]
Also, OP, I'm preeetttyyy sure "TorrentFreak" may be a biased source.[/QUOTE]
Torrentfreak is actually pretty good when it comes to file sharing news and events.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37117788]What about Steam? Massive DRM right there.[/QUOTE]
Steam is a compromise. I don't know of anyone who finds it so annoying that they use it as an excuse to pirate. In fact, I know of many people who buy games on Steam that they've previously pirated because the deals are so good.
Best way to get rid of piracy? Provide a better service. Make quality products that are affordable, with no intrusive DRM. You'll never get rid of piracy completely, but take away most of their reasons to actually pirate, and you'll cut down the number of people who do. The only ones who won't are the "why buy what you can get for free" dipshits who are usually scumbags anyways so they don't really count.
Also, people who say pirating is okay because it's not a loss in sales are retarded. It's an expensive process to make games and movies and other such things. You have to pay employees their hourly wages so they have the motivation to do what they do, actors/musicians/other performers take up a big chunk of the budget, and you need to spend money making sure your software AND hardware are up to date. That's how the companies lose money. By buying the product you are giving them enough money to at least break even, and hopefully make a profit, so they have the motivation to make similar products. By pirating you are denying them the chance to make back that money, and if too many people pirate the company can't make a profit and some companies may end up going bankrupt, which will cost the loss of thousands of jobs. THAT IS WHY PIRATING IS BAD. It's not just "hey, it's just data, data costs nothing, they're not losing any money". Anyone who says that has no idea how making stuff works. That data didn't just magically come into existence at no cost. People spent millions of dollars coding and perfecting and performing and building and all that other stuff that goes into making a movie/game/album/whatever.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;37117788]What about Steam? Massive DRM right there.[/QUOTE]
You're kidding right? Steam as a DRM is pathetic, and it's not intrusive at all so who cares.
[QUOTE=Xenomoose;37124251]Also, people who say pirating is okay because it's not a loss in sales are retarded. It's an expensive process to make games and movies and other such things. You have to pay employees their hourly wages so they have the motivation to do what they do, actors/musicians/other performers take up a big chunk of the budget, and you need to spend money making sure your software AND hardware are up to date. That's how the companies lose money. By buying the product you are giving them enough money to at least break even, and hopefully make a profit, so they have the motivation to make similar products. By pirating you are denying them the chance to make back that money, and if too many people pirate the company can't make a profit and some companies may end up going bankrupt, which will cost the loss of thousands of jobs. THAT IS WHY PIRATING IS BAD. It's not just "hey, it's just data, data costs nothing, they're not losing any money". Anyone who says that has no idea how making stuff works. That data didn't just magically come into existence at no cost. People spent millions of dollars coding and perfecting and performing and building and all that other stuff that goes into making a movie/game/album/whatever.[/QUOTE]
Most pirates will retort that they'll buy the item if it ends up being good, and that they're thus contributing more to profit than loss, and that they pirate things they wouldn't buy anyways.
However, the main damage piracy does is diminish the rightful owner's ability to control their work. If a company has to try desperately to make a good product and effectively ask for donations when people can pirate freely and easily, they are no longer able to operate under a traditional business model. Pay-if-you-want has worked in some cases, like the Humble Bundles, but a AAA title can't be published under that model.
If a company sees that their product is being pirated, the corporate response is never 'we gotta make a better product and encourage the pirates to go legit from the kindness of their hearts'. No, the response is 'we gotta crush piracy by any means possible and force them to buy it instead'. Because of this, pirating a game instead of buying it if it has serious problems or invasive DRM only prolongs and worsens the issue.
The best way to encourage these industries to adapt to the 21st century and abandon their outdated methods is to just let them burn. Don't buy products that aren't worth it, don't torrent them either- since every major corporation is watching those download figures on torrent sites. If interest in their products flags, it will send the right message and we might see some change.
[editline]7th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Legend286;37124657]You're kidding right? Steam as a DRM is pathetic, and it's not intrusive at all so who cares.[/QUOTE]
Uh, what? Steam is extremely invasive DRM. It's a piece of software without which you cannot run the games at all. You cannot buy a game, then later give it to a friend, nor can you return it or trade it in. If you get banned, you lose all your games. Its offline support is buggy and limited, requiring an Internet connection to be able to play. When the network craps out, you can't play games. If Steam were to end tomorrow, all your games would be gone.
I am very much a fan of Steam, but it's an indisputably invasive DRM measure. It may not nuke your CD drive like Starforce or install a rootkit like SecuROM but it still heavily restricts what you can and can't do with your games.
[QUOTE=Ybbats;37117013]The "games won't be pirated if they don't have DRM" argument? Wtf kind of argument is that? People release DRM-free games because they don't mind the loss of sales, maybe because they realize the world is a big place full of people who don't always have things so good, and if they can make a few bucks whilst doing what they enjoy and making people everywhere happy, that it's a worthwhile endeavor.[/QUOTE]
I never said that removing Digital Rights Management from games would stop piracy completely, though it'd probably lessen it for companies which use absolutely broken systems like Ubisoft [i]did[/i]. And for Milk, I don't consider Steam a Digital Rights system, even after I download a game I could simply switch offline to play it without having to go through a stupid system. I don't have to worry about the 'limited amounts of installs' or anything like that with Steam, either.
[editline]7th August 2012[/editline]
Though, whoever was above me possibly did just disprove my Steam argument, though I did say that I personally didn't mind it.
[editline]7th August 2012[/editline]
How about I just make more of a practical argument instead of making a redundant and broken moral one.
People pirate things because they do not have the funds, or the will to purchase something. Digital Rights Management is one of the causes of pirating, too, and people who pirate those things usually just makes it worse, though they aren't going to stop and making any sort of argument against them is useless. People who pirate things because they don't have the funds can purchase them later, though sometimes they don't. Those who pirate things regardless of the state of the product will, regardless of the state of the product. Stopping them would mean going after millions, because just because a source of illegal software goes down doesn't mean it won't pop back up later or another one will replace it. Going after millions, or simply just all of the sources of illegal software that could be found would mean violating countless rights, regardless of the legal state of the area.
Piracy isn't going to stop, regardless of its morality. Attempting to stop it will harm a lot of innocent people.
[editline]7th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=archangel125;37110350]Wait a tick, what about TPB? That's still safe, yeah?[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.webpronews.com/now-you-can-carry-the-pirate-bay-in-your-pocket-2012-02[/url]
[url]http://www.itprowire.com/2012a/0209.html[/url]
[url]http://infworm.com/fit-the-entire-pirate-bay-site-on-a-usb-drive/[/url]
[url]http://torrentfreak.com/download-a-copy-of-the-pirate-bay-its-only-90-mb-120209/[/url]
Eh, I never used demonoid, I always preferred the pirate bay for my distros.
[QUOTE=catbarf;37124726]
I am very much a fan of Steam, but it's an indisputably invasive DRM measure. It may not nuke your CD drive like Starforce or install a rootkit like SecuROM but it still heavily restricts what you can and can't do with your games.[/QUOTE]
I think there is a difference between "invasive" and "secure". You buy games on steam well knowing what you're going to have to do to play them. You can still install steam on a friend's computer and install the game you want them to be able to play, and then just have them run it in offline mode whenever they wanna play it. Obviously you can't play the same copy of multiplayer games online at the same time, but there's a pretty obvious reason for that.
As for "lending" games goes, I don't think that you're even supposed to do that really. I mean, people don't [I]care[/I] but developers/publishers would much rather that your friend buy the game too if they like it.
[QUOTE=scout1;37122150]Read.[/QUOTE]Piracy isn't a criminal matter though, it's a civil issue. It's a dispute between the company, and the pirate. The government shouldn't be responsible for stopping pirates, they simply allow for the copyright laws to exist and enable the enforcement of those laws through their justice system. That's the way it is and SHOULD be. Criminal offense usually goes with jail time, you think they should start throwing pirates in jail? Because that's what you're saying should happen, and that's completely insane.
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