Abortion rights crusader Dr. Henry Morgentaler has died at 90 - Polidicks

If abortion was a male problem it would have been made a human right in every government's legislation a long long time ago.

I'm okay with the idea of killing babies but letting women make a decision irks me.

[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;40841688]This piece of living tissue and bone and blood could not survive outside of the body, period. It is a parasite - it lives off of a woman's body. [/quote] The age of which a baby is able to live outside the mother's womb has been decreasing for the past century because of advances in medical science therefore how is it a standard on which you can measure whether or not someone is a human or not. [quote]Do you have ANY IDEA how much of a toll that takes on someone? Nine months of having your body ravaged by physical changes that are painful, cause women to become extremely sick at times, and that can limit your mobility and your capacity to do much of anything without feeling like you are made of glass.[/quote] How does that make the child any less human or deserving not to be killed? [quote] Nevermind the fact that a fully-functioning, fully-grown human being with a full life, friends, and relationships is putting her life in danger [/quote] Pure hyperbole and in no way supportive of a baby in a womb not being a human. [quote]Is it our job as a society to enforce bizarre ideas on the "sanctity of life" while at the same time causing immeasurable suffering?[/quote] Because the babies being aborted are not suffering? [quote]I think when it comes to the terminal or coma patient who wants to die or is already practically dead, and a pregnant woman who wants an abortion, the only morally sound position to stand on is one that has a choice as to whether or not to suffer needlessly. [/quote] The coma patient example was illustrating that Jeep definition of a human life was flawed. A coma patient is still a human regardless.

[quote]If abortion was a male problem it would have been made a human right in every government's legislation a long long time ago.[/quote] It is a male problem though, it's everybody's problem when one group of people in a society are not given the rights of others. [quote]The age of which a baby is able to live outside the mother's womb has been decreasing for the past century because of advances in medical science therefore how is it a standard on which you can measure whether or not someone is a human or not.[/quote] I dunno, do you really think an embryo can live without most of its organs actually in a fully-grown state? There are some things medical science cannot fix; beyond that, my point still stands that these bits of tissue really can't constitute a human being. All I see here from you is that you seem to value that over women. [quote]How does that make the child any less human or deserving not to be killed?[/quote] [quote]Pure hyperbole and in no way supportive of a baby in a womb not being a human. [/quote] [quote]Because the babies being aborted are not suffering?[/quote] So it looks like you missed the point! [quote=Me]The burden of proof is on you to prove that what we are talking about are realized children. [B]Until that premise is proven, nothing you have said here can be taken as even approaching a reasonable argument.[/B] [/quote]

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841764]The age of which a baby is able to live outside the mother's womb has been decreasing for the past century because of advances in medical science therefore how is it a standard on which you can measure whether or not someone is a human or not. How does that make the child any less human or deserving not to be killed? Pure hyperbole and in no way supportive of a baby in a womb not being a human. Because the babies being aborted are not suffering? The coma patient example was illustrating that Jeep definition of a human life was flawed. A coma patient is still a human regardless.[/QUOTE] 95% of abortions happen before the third trimester so there's no need for you to rile up a moral panic and cry "THE WOMEN ARE ABORTING HUMAN BEANSSSS!!!" [editline]30th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;40841769]It is a male problem though, it's everybody's problem when one group of people in a society are not given the rights of others.[/QUOTE] I meant if men were the ones who had to actually undergo abortions.

[quote=The golden]You're right, a child's rights are extremely important - but a zygote/fetus is not a child. Not legally or by definition. If you think that a cluster of cells in a woman's uterus take rights priority over her herself then you are rather morbid indeed.[/quote] Why? Why does development matter? [quote]Why are there women pro-lifers? Because like you they feel like they have the authority to dictate how other people should live their lives. [/quote] If you want to throw around pointless insults then would you like me to say that pro-choicers are pro-murder? [quote]Adoption services can only work as fast as the demand. If nobody is adopting children then adoption services cannot keep taking them. Sorry but adoption isn't something where you can wave the money wand and make it magically work. It's quite a complicated process and isn't even close to an actual self-sustaining solution. [/quote] So let's just kill them? Let's just kill the mentally ill because we don't have the time for them? Let's kill the old because we don't have enough people trained to take care of them? What kind of reasoning is that?

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841804]Why? Why does development matter? If you want to throw around pointless insults then would you like me to say that pro-choicers are pro-murder? So let's just kill them? Let's just kill the mentally ill because we don't have the time for them? Let's kill the old because we don't have enough people trained to take care of them? What kind of reasoning is that?[/QUOTE] Okay you're starting to scare me with your insane rambling so I have to ask: do you think a fertilized egg is a human being? Because that would make anyone who takes the morning-after pill a murderer according to your batshit crazy rhetoric.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841764]How does that make the child any less human or deserving not to be killed?[/QUOTE] Let me ask - what's your earliest memory? How old were you? I'll tell you mine. I was 4 years old. My grandmother was trying to feed me applesauce or baby formula or some other soft food. I went "No! I want to eat big boy food!" and pitched a fit. But I was 4 years old. Four fucking years. I don't think a partially developed fetus - something entirely unable to sustain itself - is considered a person. At all. It's not murder and they aren't going to suffer.

[QUOTE=The golden;40841818]Thom, it's impossible to take anything you say seriously when you keep referring to a zygote and/or fetus as a "child". That is biologically and legally incorrect in every way. They are two totally different things.[/QUOTE] Would you prefer unborn child?

[quote]If you want to throw around pointless insults then would you like me to say that pro-choicers are pro-murder? [/quote] You're right, that is pointless. Murder involves one human being killing another. [quote]Why? Why does development matter? [/quote] Development matters, because for most of the development the embryo is simply not a human being. Do people get mad when we don't use seeds for trees, because in doing so we're destroying trees? No. It makes no fucking sense. [quote]So let's just kill them? Let's just kill the mentally ill because we don't have the time for them? Let's kill the old because we don't have enough people trained to take care of them? What kind of reasoning is that? [/quote] Pure hyperbole. [quote]Would you prefer unborn child?[/quote] I think we'd all prefer you address the hitch in your point of view that you cannot seem to prove that what you are talking about are children beyond a shadow of a doubt; and that you cannot seem to offer a good reason as to why women should be put at risk when it is their bodies on the line here.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841844]Would you prefer unborn child?[/QUOTE] I'd post the Doctor Evil vid, but I'm not sure the mods would like it.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841844]Would you prefer unborn child?[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/19LwE.jpg[/IMG] do you understand yet or do i have to keep treating you like an ignorant child?

[QUOTE=Protocol7;40841838]Let me ask - what's your earliest memory? How old were you? I'll tell you mine. I was 4 years old. My grandmother was trying to feed me applesauce or baby formula or some other soft food. I went "No! I want to eat big boy food!" and pitched a fit. But I was 4 years old. Four fucking years. I don't think a partially developed fetus - something entirely unable to sustain itself - is considered a person. At all. It's not murder and they aren't going to suffer.[/QUOTE] Erm, I don't understand how your earliest memory factors into you being a human.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841844]Would you prefer unborn child?[/QUOTE] It's a fetus. AKA a bunch of cells that could [B]POTENTIALLY[/B] become a person.

[QUOTE=Lolkork;40841906]I always like to hear about someone who lives a long life and dies peacefully. It just feels complete.[/QUOTE] That's what I want too. Fuck an afterlife. Just make it long, eventful and the end so fast you don't see it and I'm happy.

[quote]Erm, I don't understand how your earliest memory factors into you being a human. [/quote] It's probably not the defining factor. Tell us, what does?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40841863][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/19LwE.jpg[/IMG] do you understand yet or do i have to keep treating you like an ignorant child?[/QUOTE] Why is a fertilised egg not a human?

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841913]Erm, I don't understand how your earliest memory factors into you being a human.[/QUOTE] If the brain isn't fully developed, then it isn't a child yet. And now you're probably gonna drag mentally retarded persons into this mess because you don't know when you've been beaten. [editline]30th May 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Thom12255;40841931]Why is a fertilised egg not a human?[/QUOTE] Scratch that, you've already dragged yourself into this mess.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841931]Why is a fertilised egg not a human?[/QUOTE] Because it's a single cell. Read the Macro, fuck it.

[QUOTE=AtomicWaffle;40841924]It's probably not the defining factor. Tell us, what does?[/QUOTE] Conception.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841804]Why? Why does development matter?[/QUOTE] do you have any religious beliefs, or is this just how you feel?

[QUOTE=Jeep-Eep;40841943]Because it's a single cell. Read the Macro, fuck it.[/QUOTE] It is life, a human life.

[quote=Thom12255]Conception. It is a life, a human life. [/quote] Why?

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841931]Why is a fertilised egg not a human?[/QUOTE] is this a serious question? do you even know what a fucking human is? at this point i don't even think you are one because of how ignorant this question is.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;40841960]Why is sperm in my bedroom floor not a human?[/QUOTE] Life beings at conception, a sperm on it's own is not a human life.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841961]It is life, a human life.[/QUOTE] Then it can go fuck right outta it's mothers uterus and handle being alive on it's own without being a parasite inside its mother.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;40841969]is this a serious question? do you even know what a fucking human is? at this point i don't even think you are one because of how ignorant this question is.[/QUOTE] No one in here has yet to tell me why a fertilised egg is not classed as human, all they have mentioned is development which is a terrible argument because a a born baby is no less a human than an adult.

[quote]Life beings at conception, a sperm on it's own is not a human life. [/quote] [quote]No one in here has yet to tell me why a fertilised egg is not classed as human, all they have mentioned is development which is a terrible argument because a a born baby is no less a human than an adult.[/quote] We have actually done so. What is "life" and how can you tell me it begins at conception? You've just made several statements with no particularly good reason to believe them. You might as well be trying to tell us that our digestive systems are run by microscopic dwarves - why do we have any reason to believe you?

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841970]Life beings at conception, a sperm on it's own is not a human life.[/QUOTE] So what, when a sperm touches an egg it's allocated a soul or some magical bullshit and it's suddenly a person?

[QUOTE=Thom12255;40841970]Life beings at conception, a sperm on it's own is not a human life.[/QUOTE] Okay so if a woman takes emergency contraception she's a murderer? What if the egg doesn't manage to attach itself to the uterine wall and is washed out when she has her period, is that manslaughter? You've opened up a whole new ridiculous can of worms boyo.