Republicans’ “Internet Freedom Act” would wipe out net neutrality
131 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47268088]And yet they apparently do represent real people because people keep voting them into office.[/QUOTE]
Only 36.4% of eligible voters made the effort to vote for the last Congressional election, for every voting seat in the House of Representatives. A bit over half, 51%, voted for a GOP candidate. The House of Representatives of the United States is under the control of a party which only had [b]19 fucking percent[/b] electoral support. And you Americans wonder why your politics are messed up.
[QUOTE=Squad1993;47265768]I'm fiscally republican.
I am pro gay rights, marriage etc. I'm Catholic but don't use it as a fucking strict guideline, only follow its values.
I despise Obama cuz he's fucked the medical system but at the same time i think it's silly when people say he's worse than Putin.
The only republicans I have a problem with are the bible humpers who would blow Jesus at any given moment because they put down everyone for not being part of the "elite."
In my experience however, they are a minority. I feel as if we Republicans are being misrepresented in the government by the people who say they are representing our views but really are just pushing their agenda cuz lel money[/QUOTE]
Perhaps I'm just being optimistic, but I think a lot of people who vote Republican don't agree with their general views on things like gay rights, abortion, rape, etc... Instead they vote for the Republicans because of some other policy they want.
But, to be perfectly honest, I find it really sad that people's--especially minorities', women's, and the poor's--rights and, to a lesser extent wellbeing, are viewed as less important than whatever policy those people support. Though it isn't a decision I had to make personally as the main policy I care about beyond people's rights is net neutrality, so I try not to judge too much.
[editline]6th March 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Antdawg;47268108]Only 36.4% of eligible voters made the effort to vote for the last Congressional election, for every voting seat in the House of Representatives. A bit over half, 51%, voted for a GOP candidate. The House of Representatives of the United States is under the control of a party which only had [b]19 fucking percent[/b] electoral support. And you Americans wonder why your politics are messed up.[/QUOTE]
Voter apathy is a big issue, though I look at it as that those voters didn't see either side as a big enough problem to go vote simply to block them from gaining seats. So some vote them into office, and others take no action to stop them. Not to mention, 19 percent is not an insignificant amount of people.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47268121]Perhaps I'm just being optimistic, but I think a lot of people who vote Republican don't agree with their general views on things like gay rights, abortion, rape, etc... Instead they vote for the Republicans because of some other policy they want.[/quote]
Pro-gun. Def'nitely, def'nitely pro-gun.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;47268121]Voter apathy is a big issue, though I look at it as that those voters didn't see either side as a big enough problem to go vote simply to block them from gaining seats. So some vote them into office, and others take no action to stop them. Not to mention, 19 percent is not an insignificant amount of people.[/QUOTE]
15% is about the percentage of Americans I would say qualify as "fucking insane"
19% isn't much higher than that.
'Republicans are inhuman monsters and idiots who only have supporters through brainwashing and you can't reason with them and we need to just force legislation through'
'Why do Republicans always refuse to compromise?'
:rolleyes: Gee I wonder why we have political gridlock? It must be those nasty Republicans' fault, can't they just accept that they're 100% wrong about everything and I'm 100% right about everything?
Sub out 'Democrat' for 'Republican' and make a few minor issue-related substitutions and the last two pages of this thread would look just like a Tea Partier thread, complete with ranting about how liberals are brainwashed by their media and can't be reasoned with. But remember kids, it's only okay when [i]we[/i] do it!
[QUOTE=catbarf;47269374]'Republicans are inhuman monsters and idiots who only have supporters through brainwashing and you can't reason with them and we need to just force legislation through'
'Why do Republicans always refuse to compromise?'
:rolleyes: Gee I wonder why we have political gridlock? It must be those nasty Republicans' fault, can't they just accept that they're 100% wrong about everything and I'm 100% right about everything?
Sub out 'Democrat' for 'Republican' and make a few minor issue-related substitutions and the last two pages of this thread would look just like a Tea Partier thread, complete with ranting about how liberals are brainwashed by their media and can't be reasoned with. But remember kids, it's only okay when [i]we[/i] do it![/QUOTE]
Democrats don't [url=http://goprapeadvisorychart.com/]try to excuse rape[/url], though.
Or try to stymie minority rights.
Or support economic policies that explicitly favor the rich and fuck over the poor.
Or bend over quite as much to corporations at the expense of the average citizen.
Or try to fuck over the environment in exchange for business profits.
Or purposefully shut down the government in order to make the other party look bad.
The list goes on.
Sure, democrats and republicans are both assholes, but it's the choice between a gymnast's asshole and the asshole of someone so fat they need a mobility scooter.
The only issue you can argue democrats are worse on are guns, but that's a legitimately complicated issue. Even if democrats were to be 100% wrong on it, the republicans would still have all of the other issues they're demonstrably wrong in.
Oh, I guess democrats compromise too much too. But that goes against your point of "you can just swap out democrat and republican and it would be the same".
Would you respond to someone's argument of "the climate change deniers are just burying their heads in the sand and bowing to corporate propaganda" and say "if you swap out climate change denier with climate change believer, it's exactly the same!", even though the context is completely different?
No, because that would be demonstrably wrong. The same issue goes here.
[QUOTE=Last or First;47269637]Democrats don't [url=http://goprapeadvisorychart.com/]try to excuse rape[/url], though.
Or try to stymie minority rights.
Or support economic policies that explicitly favor the rich and fuck over the poor.
Or bend over quite as much to corporations at the expense of the average citizen.
Or try to fuck over the environment in exchange for business profits.
Or purposefully shut down the government in order to make the other party look bad.
The list goes on.
Sure, democrats and republicans are both assholes, but it's the choice between a gymnast's asshole and the asshole of someone so fat they need a mobility scooter.
The only issue you can argue democrats are worse on are guns, but that's a legitimately complicated issue. Even if democrats were to be 100% wrong on it, the republicans would still have all of the other issues they're demonstrably wrong in.
Oh, I guess democrats compromise too much too. But that goes against your point of "you can just swap out democrat and republican and it would be the same".
Would you respond to someone's argument of "the climate change deniers are just burying their heads in the sand and bowing to corporate propaganda" and say "if you swap out climate change denier with climate change believer, it's exactly the same!", even though the context is completely different?
No, because that would be demonstrably wrong. The same issue goes here.[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with saying that I agree more with Democrats than I do with Republicans, especially with the complete inability of the GOP to represent their constituency or respond reasonably to changing political environments. I also have no problem with saying that the Republican party is demonstrably behind the times on issues like healthcare, where their policies are out of date and ineffective, and that trickle-down economics is a dismal failure. This is disagreement. This is the democratic system in action.
What I have a problem with is people painting Republicans, all Republicans, as Fox News-watching, Kool-Aid-drinking, truck-driving rednecks who only believe what they believe because they're brainwashed and too stupid to know any better, and that legislation needs to be forced past them whether they like it or not, and then being [i]baffled[/i] that Republicans don't want to compromise, cooperate, or spontaneously give up and agree that they were wrong all along.
You can disagree with someone's politics, even believe that they're entirely mistaken, without resorting to the stupidity of accusing them of being a brainwashed, unthinking goon. You can healthily lobby for your own interests in government without flying into an autistic rage because someone out there sees the world differently from you. All this bullshit about how Republicans can't be reasoned with is the same empty rhetoric used by the extreme right-wing to discredit the left, and it becomes doubly ironic when the people propagating it lament that there's just gridlock and no cooperation in politics.
I am not saying you need to walk on eggshells and treat all opinions as equally valid, I am saying if you have any self-awareness at all you won't treat people who just happen to think differently from you as if they're subhumans and then have the [i]gall[/i] to be surprised when they aren't receptive to your views.
And for what it's worth, yeah, if someone just calls climate change deniers illiterate morons brainwashed by right-leaning mass media then they're using the same tactics as the right-wingers who call climate change proponents hippy morons brainwashed by left-leaning science lobbies. The fact that you're fundamentally correct on the issue doesn't make your arguments any more convincing if you're just insulting the other side and blaming them for not agreeing with you yet.
Why is this even pissing me off? If those fucking Republicans win, the infrastructure of the US will crash and burn because it's so horribly outdated, and they'll be too antique to do something about it.
For if all we know they're trying to get that place back to the stone age because the Internet indoctrinates too many people or some shit.
But I'll be honest, I really hope for all of you that the Republicans will get fucking incinerated. We also used to deal with a outdated Internet connection, and it is really frustrating.
[QUOTE=Merijnwitje;47270175]Why is this even pissing me off? If those fucking Republicans win, the infrastructure of the US will crash and burn because it's so horribly outdated, and they'll be too antique to do something about it.
For if all we know they're trying to get that place back to the stone age because the Internet indoctrinates too many people or some shit.
But I'll be honest, I really hope for all of you that the Republicans will get fucking incinerated. We also used to deal with a outdated Internet connection, and it is really frustrating.[/QUOTE]The internet rose as one against SOPA. I have no doubts it will happen again against this travesty.
Why do I feel so pessimistic about this? Considering how misinformed and/or apathetic people are, this might actually make it through a veto.
Then again, FCC's ruling doesn't really mean much to me in the first place. Most streaming services barely even support my slow internet, if at all. It actually made me aggravated that Youtube stopped showing 240/144p options because now that means it's that much harder to watch videos. AT&T has no incentive to expand in this area and to be honest, there is no real monetary incentive to serve this area. Me and maybe a few other people might be able to afford high speed internet here. (1.5 Mbit down/0.3 up atm)
Hell, my phone's data is more than three times faster than my home net, course it's limited data. fml
[QUOTE=Solo Wing;47270337]The internet rose as one against SOPA. I have no doubts it will happen again against this travesty.[/QUOTE]
You may say that I have little faith, but I have little faith that's going to happen again
[QUOTE=catbarf;47269922]I have no problem with saying that I agree more with Democrats than I do with Republicans, especially with the complete inability of the GOP to represent their constituency or respond reasonably to changing political environments. I also have no problem with saying that the Republican party is demonstrably behind the times on issues like healthcare, where their policies are out of date and ineffective, and that trickle-down economics is a dismal failure. This is disagreement. This is the democratic system in action.
What I have a problem with is people painting Republicans, all Republicans, as Fox News-watching, Kool-Aid-drinking, truck-driving rednecks who only believe what they believe because they're brainwashed and too stupid to know any better, and that legislation needs to be forced past them whether they like it or not, and then being [i]baffled[/i] that Republicans don't want to compromise, cooperate, or spontaneously give up and agree that they were wrong all along.
You can disagree with someone's politics, even believe that they're entirely mistaken, without resorting to the stupidity of accusing them of being a brainwashed, unthinking goon. You can healthily lobby for your own interests in government without flying into an autistic rage because someone out there sees the world differently from you. All this bullshit about how Republicans can't be reasoned with is the same empty rhetoric used by the extreme right-wing to discredit the left, and it becomes doubly ironic when the people propagating it lament that there's just gridlock and no cooperation in politics.
I am not saying you need to walk on eggshells and treat all opinions as equally valid, I am saying if you have any self-awareness at all you won't treat people who just happen to think differently from you as if they're subhumans and then have the [i]gall[/i] to be surprised when they aren't receptive to your views.
And for what it's worth, yeah, if someone just calls climate change deniers illiterate morons brainwashed by right-leaning mass media then they're using the same tactics as the right-wingers who call climate change proponents hippy morons brainwashed by left-leaning science lobbies. The fact that you're fundamentally correct on the issue doesn't make your arguments any more convincing if you're just insulting the other side and blaming them for not agreeing with you yet.[/QUOTE]
We did compromise. We compromised even though it hurt the nation. We did it again and again and each time the Republicans turned it around and used the compromise as a method to build their support.
"Look at how obamacare has failed!" Yeah? It only has failed because of fucking compromises. We all expected it to do poorly once it was hamstrung all to hell by the Republicans. It is like shooting a guy in the street and then complaining about how bad crime is.
I'm unwilling to compromise with Republicans because they are awful people. How are we going to meet them in the middle? Only half the gay people can get married? Halve the federal minimum wage? Only half the population can have affordable healthcare?
[QUOTE=GunFox;47270935]I'm unwilling to compromise with Republicans because they are awful people.[/QUOTE]
You could not have missed the point any harder if you tried.
[QUOTE=catbarf;47271095]You could not have missed the point any harder if you tried.[/QUOTE]
I got it. My point is that it is a false equivalence. You can make the comparison, but they are not the same.
Unlike tea partiers, people that loathe Republicans have data to back up their claims. Decades upon decades of research have proven, with the exception of gun policy, that Republicans are utterly full of shit. On top of that, you don't need any research (though it does exist in many cases) to prove that Republicans are socially destructive as well.
Hating someone because they actively and [I]objectively[/I] hurt hundreds of millions of people is perfectly fine.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47271141]Unlike tea partiers, people that loathe Republicans have data to back up their claims. Decades upon decades of research have proven, with the exception of gun policy, that Republicans are utterly full of shit. [/QUOTE]
I'm extremely left-leaning and I already stated that the notion that all ideas are equally valid is bullshit. But if you're going to use puerile justifications to attack the other side with little more than slander and drop all pretense of respecting their views, you're no longer in any position to complain about their slander, or more importantly to complain about the attitude of confrontation, non-cooperation, and disrespect [B]that you are deliberately contributing to[/B]. If the fact that our government isn't functioning at all matters to you, a childish 'but they started it and they're mean!' does not justify continuing to make the problem [I]worse[/I].
Acting like a child in response to childish behavior doesn't make you the bigger man, and it certainly doesn't leave you in any position to complain about the other side when you're emulating their tactics.
A new center right party needs to replace the GOP.
Someone resurrect Teddy Roosevelt so he can blast these skid marks a new one
Republican policy is simple. Under the guise of 'small government', they do all they can to protect big businesses and corporations, crush small ones, lower taxation so that the profit margins of these big businesses can be bigger while destroying social support and education for the poor, and they use pretended solidarity with the religious right to get popular support for these measures. They pretend that big government is evil and its only purpose is to infringe upon the rights and freedoms of the average citizen while meanwhile handing all of the power to corporations, the only function of which is to make ever bigger profits for their shareholders.
They're thieves and swindlers, every one. And I truly feel sorry for any American who supports them.
"Freedom"
For who?
[QUOTE=catbarf;47271389]I'm extremely left-leaning and I already stated that the notion that all ideas are equally valid is bullshit. But if you're going to use puerile justifications to attack the other side with little more than slander and drop all pretense of respecting their views, you're no longer in any position to complain about their slander, or more importantly to complain about the attitude of confrontation, non-cooperation, and disrespect [B]that you are deliberately contributing to[/B]. If the fact that our government isn't functioning at all matters to you, a childish 'but they started it and they're mean!' does not justify continuing to make the problem [I]worse[/I].
Acting like a child in response to childish behavior doesn't make you the bigger man, and it certainly doesn't leave you in any position to complain about the other side when you're emulating their tactics.[/QUOTE]
They are doing terrible things to innocent people. You can dance around it all you want, but their actions reveal their purpose.
Yes, they point the finger as well, but when they do it, they use blatant lies or no evidence at all to support their claim. Compromise has not only failed to yield positive results, but it actively hurts the left wing. Republicans will gladly trash a policy and then use it as ammunition to further their goals.
They literally cannot be reasoned with. Quality research does nothing to inhibit their march towards corruption. Diplomacy has failed. All that is left is to publicly call a spade a spade. When they do terrible things to people, we need to make it know how awful they are. Republicans a few decades ago warranted some respect, but no longer. I do not respect people who harm lives for their personal gain, nor do I see any reason to do so.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47271916]They are doing terrible things to innocent people. You can dance around it all you want, but their actions reveal their purpose.
Yes, they point the finger as well, but when they do it, they use blatant lies or no evidence at all to support their claim. Compromise has not only failed to yield positive results, but it actively hurts the left wing. Republicans will gladly trash a policy and then use it as ammunition to further their goals.
They literally cannot be reasoned with. Quality research does nothing to inhibit their march towards corruption. Diplomacy has failed. All that is left is to publicly call a spade a spade. When they do terrible things to people, we need to make it know how awful they are. Republicans a few decades ago warranted some respect, but no longer. I do not respect people who harm lives for their personal gain, nor do I see any reason to do so.[/QUOTE]
I believe what Catbarf is saying is that hostility will not move those conversations along at all. Demonizing demons won't get you anywhere.
But frankly, I think that we're going nowhere in a real hurry. It doesn't matter if we call a spade a spade or not, because the people who are trying to get their way are going to continue to try to do so, and as their actions show, will throw the little guy under the bus at every turn. Maybe calling them what they are won't help, maybe it will, but I'm more worried that people are entrenched in their ideologies in a scary fashion in this day and age.
Here's an idea, let's draft up a bill called the "Legislative Freedom Protection Act". Under this law, any new bills being submitted will automatically be thrown out if they have misleading or bullshit words in them including but not limited to: freedom, patriot, safety, protection, etc...
In addition, the person in charge of naming and/or approving the name of an offending bill title shall promptly receive a boot in their ass.
[QUOTE=GunFox;47271916]They are doing terrible things to innocent people. You can dance around it all you want, but their actions reveal their purpose.
Yes, they point the finger as well, but when they do it, they use blatant lies or no evidence at all to support their claim. Compromise has not only failed to yield positive results, but it actively hurts the left wing. Republicans will gladly trash a policy and then use it as ammunition to further their goals.
They literally cannot be reasoned with. Quality research does nothing to inhibit their march towards corruption. Diplomacy has failed. All that is left is to publicly call a spade a spade. When they do terrible things to people, we need to make it know how awful they are. Republicans a few decades ago warranted some respect, but no longer. I do not respect people who harm lives for their personal gain, nor do I see any reason to do so.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm sorry, catbarf, I used to try that and I wish it worked. Either intentionally or unintentionally, the liberal ideal of listening to everyone and being fair and open to new ideas has opened up liberals to being trampled by people who are inflexible who won't budge an inch and will pretend like the other side is trying to trample them. It's kind of like hearing Russians talk about how Ukrainians are trampling over the "rebellion" and are being "aggressive" toward Russians.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;47272520]but I'm more worried that people are entrenched in their ideologies in a scary fashion in this day and age.[/QUOTE]
And calling them inbred, unthinking, poor-hating monsters doesn't help that. At all. Which is what I've been saying, consistently, repeatedly, this whole time.
It takes a special kind of blinkered, dogmatic stupidity to assess the two possibilities:
a. that half of America, despite coming from similar walks of life and even holding policies you may agree with (hey Gunfox, tell us how you feel about gun control) is [I]actually[/I] robotic personifications of evil who cannot be reasoned with and are determined to destroy America at all costs like a McCarthyist nightmare, or
b. that half of America are by and large relatively normal people who hold somewhat different political views, so similar from the perspective of the rest of the world that both the American left and right wing are considered conservative, and only become entrenched, defensive, and reactionary when you're practically accusing them of being fucking Nazis
and decide that (a) must be the most rational and logical explanation. People being entrenched in ideology is the #1 problem in politics right now and partisan 'WELL HUH I THINK THEY'RE SHIT SO IM CALLING THEM WHAT THEY ARE' isn't helping. I don't even care how you feel about the politicians [i]whom many Republicans agree don't represent them[/i], this is a good half of America that's being painted with a broad brush, and most of them are not science-denying poor-hating radicals until you pigeonhole them that way.
Like seriously, Gunfox, do you [I]know[/I] any Republicans personally? Do you seriously not have any friends with different political beliefs? How sheltered and out of touch with reality do you have to be to think that half the people you encounter are outright monsters?
As a more moderate republican, this pisses me off. We need to do something about these stupid ISP's fucking us over and these far right dudes are just pushing us 2 steps backwards. Ugh. We need more bipartisan shit.
As long as the taxes/rates don't get raised I don't see why net neutrality is a bad thing at all.
:downs:
[QUOTE=catbarf;47283977]
Like seriously, Gunfox, do you [I]know[/I] any Republicans personally? Do you seriously not have any friends with different political beliefs? How sheltered and out of touch with reality do you have to be to think that half the people you encounter are outright monsters?[/QUOTE]
My entire family is Southern. I lived in North Carolina and Tennessee for a decade. Now I live in Montana, which is just weird. People are all over the map politically but mostly just wish the rest of the country would go die in a fire. It is a weird place.
Here is the Republican party in a nutshell:
-The people who run it are horrible individuals who are (mostly) aware of what they are doing. They seek wealth and power. Religion is a tool used to control people for these individuals. They don't necessarily actively engage in some bizarre conspiracy, they just continue doing what they are doing because it has always worked for them. Why change what isn't broken (for them)?
-The overwhelming majority of Republicans are too stupid and/or ignorant to know better. They actively choose things that are against their own best interests because they are controlled through media and religious institutions.
Marx pointed out that the people with the means for material production control the means for mental production. Basically if you are physically in control of all the production of material goods in a society, you also control the society itself. It allows the ruling class of any society to produce an ideology that convinces the lower classes to do what the ruling class wants AND believe it was their own idea all along.
Historically with monarchs this was stuff like the divine right of kings. Or with lords and peasants, it was the idea that boosting your lord's standing would also boost your quality of life.
In the US this translates into the "American dream", where you tell people that if they work real hard they can advance and become part of this wealthy elite. In practice? Almost entirely bullshit. It is pushed because convincing your workers that hard work leads to wealth means your workers will work extra hard for you. It isn't complicated. This expands outwards though into the realm of voting. Because these people all believe that one day they will be the ones giving the orders, how willing do you think they will be to do things like vote for unions or tax hikes to the wealthy? Despite being poor and poorly educated, they see that as shooting themselves in the foot, because afterall, that is gonna be them one day!
The bulk of Republicans are just poorly educated individuals being manipulated all to hell. It is why as your education level increases, the likelihood that you are going to be a Republican decreases.
So yes, a relatively small number of Republicans are outright monsters. The ones steering the ship. The majority of them are just stupid and are easily controlled. Individually I just find these people sad.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;47265049]How do the people of the united states assert their democracy in getting rid of GOP altogether?
This party should not exist.[/QUOTE]yes you're completely right
I can't wait for the day our already severely limited two party system becomes a one party system
Cannot wait
I'm so done with mainstream politicians. I'm proud of what the Dems have done to protect net neutrality, but honestly both parties are shit.
[QUOTE=GamerChick;47284121]As long as the taxes/rates don't get raised I don't see why net neutrality is a bad thing at all.
:downs:[/QUOTE]
The rates would only change due to ISPs trying to prove a "point" that net neutrality is somehow bad. Hopefully the FCC have the ability to drop the fucking hammer on them if they try that because neutrality doesn't need them to change their operating procedures in any way that should impact prices. The same amount of data is going to go through their networks, it just can't be limited like they would like now.
[QUOTE=POLOPOZOZO;47284295]yes you're completely right
I can't wait for the day our already severely limited two party system becomes a one party system
Cannot wait[/QUOTE]
The moment one of the major parties takes over completely, is the moment it will immediately fracture.
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