Iran publishes YouTube video on nuclear crisis, says ‘Join Us’ in ending crisis
60 replies, posted
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42932196']Iran is the opposite recently, look at how people here are reacting to them. We are overlooking that they are an oppressive theocratic dictatorship, and focusing on "oh poor Iran, being bullied"[/QUOTE]
Iran is much more liberal compared to Saudi Arabia. But we don't give a fuck because Saudi supports us and vice-versa. It has nothing to do with Iran's "theocratic dictatorship" we constantly hear about. They're still better than half the nations in the region.
[QUOTE=draugur;42932194]You're delusional if you think either of those countries is a grand old place, but I'd rather be in Iran than Israel. At least Iran isn't holding the world hostage. Any country with the death penalty isn't forward-thinking in the slightest anyway.[/QUOTE]
You may support Iran more in terms of foreign policy, but there is no such thing as freedom in Iran. I'd pick the country I could have freedom in any day.
[QUOTE=draugur;42932194]but I'd rather be in Iran than Israel.[/QUOTE]
no you wouldn't. if you're a minority of any type, especially Palastinian, you'd prefer to live in Israel than Iran.
Israel has a flawed democracy and ranks as free in all personal freedom indexes. Iran is a repressive authoritarian regime that ranks as completely not free.
the number one reason the middle east is a mess is because of westerners ingrained with orientalism talking about issues they don't understand. please stop
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932210]Iran is much more liberal compared to Saudi Arabia. But we don't give a fuck because Saudi supports us and vice-versa. It has nothing to do with Iran's "theocratic dictatorship" we constantly hear about. They're still better than half the nations in the region.[/QUOTE]
They are? I hate Saudi Arabia as much as the next guy, but I think Iran takes the cake in that sense.
I could use the same argument about most of Facepunch hear. Remember that thread about the men being sentence 2000 lashes for public nudity (or something like that)? Remember the outrage over that? I didn't notice any rage about things like this in Iran.
Look at some of this:
[url]http://www.wfafi.org/laws.pdf[/url]
Not exactly good.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42932237']You may support Iran more in terms of foreign policy, but there is no such thing as freedom in Iran. I'd pick the country I could have freedom in any day.[/QUOTE]
Good thing you live in a Western nation then huh? Honestly Iran is one of the more liberal countries in the region, as Starpluck said above. You have to look at the country's primary source of their morals, as morals make up general laws.
Honestly, you're trying to compare nations based on geography when you have to base it on their respective cultures. Cultures based on Islam are very different from cultures based on Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Atheism, or what-have-you. Really you need to rate them on their level of liberalism based on that standard, because what we consider middle ground politics in the US, is essentially the right wing of Europe, or radical liberalism in a good few of the more traditional (IE. Islam and such) cultures.
[QUOTE=draugur;42932307]Good thing you live in a Western nation then huh? Honestly Iran is one of the more liberal countries in the region, as Starpluck said above. You have to look at the country's primary source of their morals, as morals make up general laws.
Honestly, you're trying to compare nations based on geography when you have to base it on their respective cultures. Cultures based on Islam are very different from cultures based on Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Atheism, or what-have-you. Really you need to rate them on their level of liberalism based on that standard, because what we consider middle ground politics in the US, is essentially the right wing of Europe, or radical liberalism in a good few of the more traditional (IE. Islam and such) cultures.[/QUOTE]
A culture doesn't excuse anything. It can make a comparison, but that's it. A system of morals that law is based off of doesn't make the law any more or less oppressive.
[QUOTE=draugur;42932307] Honestly Iran is one of the more liberal countries in the region[/QUOTE]
[citation needed]
[QUOTE]Islamic Republic of Iran is a tyrannical regime that is neither a Republic nor Iranian. Their only goal is to destroy the land and people of Iran, as you are witnessing now. No representative of it can be any different from the main body. People of Iran deserve a better life than what this terrorist and inhuman Islamic Republic regime can ever provide for them.[/QUOTE]
[editline]21st November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE]Iranian regime is so scared that they push with every power they have to stop sanctions. World must know that what they say now is a bunch of lies like always. when we, Iranian people don't believe them ,why the world should?
Iranian regime is a terrorist government and even now, they are pursuing their nuclear activities in secrecy....[/QUOTE]
[editline]21st November 2013[/editline]
And also this:
[QUOTE]
Iranian regime speaks of peace and acts like its friendly but in reality they are one of the biggest oppressors in the Middle East with their barbaric satanic regime[/QUOTE]
I am laughing very hard at the sheer stupidity of this.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42932285']They are?T hey are? I hate Saudi Arabia as much as the next guy, but I think Iran takes the cake in that sense.[/QUOTE]
Yes? What kind of fucking question is this? Women do not have any actual role in the Saudi government, let alone the ability to even drive a car.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42932258]no you wouldn't. if you're a minority of any type, especially Palastinian, you'd prefer to live in Israel than Iran.[/QUOTE]
This post is dumb and you are dumb because it ignores the blanket discrimination against Palestinians and other African minorities (such as forced sterilizations), in both the occupied territories and Israel.
And lastly:
[QUOTE]
My name is Farzad ,no I am not a terrorist, I don't live in dessert. I speak Persian not Arabic. Iran is pronounced EERAAN and not I-ran (it's not track & field) Iran and Iraq are two different countries. Middle east is a region NOT a continent; and camels are not our way of transportation (don't be stupid). Belly dancers are NOT strippers; anyway belly dancing is an Arabic dance, it never came from Iran. The next time you play backgammon, keep in mind Persians gave you your game. What the hell is soccer?? we also call it football. Iran is the first country on earth to have a lion (male) and a sun (female) for its symbol; and the colors red, white and green for a flag!! A beautiful country, run by wrong people; but still the best part of the middle east. Allow me to introduce my self I AM PERSIAN AND MY LAND IS PERSIA so I am proud![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932380]Yes. What kind of fucking question is this? Women aren't part of the Saudi government, let alone they can't even drive.
This post is dumb and you are dumb because it ignores the blanket discrimination against Palestinians and other African minorities (such as forced sterilizations), in both the occupied territories and Israel.[/QUOTE]
Let's change the direction of this. So far your only excuse for Iran's legal system is that "Saudi Arabia is Worse". [B]How does that excuse any of what Iran is doing?[/B]
Also, did you read any of this: [url]http://www.wfafi.org/laws.pdf[/url]
It's a compilation is Iran's laws against women, they aren't exactly that nice.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42932407']Let's change the direction of this. So far your only excuse for Iran's legal system is that "Saudi Arabia is Worse". How does that excuse any of what Iran is doing?
Also, did you read any of this: [URL]http://www.wfafi.org/laws.pdf[/URL]
It's a compilation is Iran's laws against women, they aren't exactly that nice.[/QUOTE]
Yes, Iran has several issues that need to be addressed with regard to it's civil governance.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932380]
This post is dumb and you are dumb because it ignores the blanket discrimination against Palestinians and other African minorities (such as forced sterilizations), in both the occupied territories and Israel.[/QUOTE]
lol ok
i dont see how i'm "dumb" when i disagree with the idea that somehow, if you had to arrange them in any arbitrary ranking of freedom, Iran comes up on top in any way.
i'm not ignoring anything, i'm saying that the attempt to portray Iran as somehow better than Israel in any way is sickening and completely misses on the problems with both countries.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932444]Yes, Iran has several issues that need to be addressed with regard to it's civil governance.[/QUOTE]
iran has no civil governance in the first place. it's a theocracy.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932444]Yes, Iran has several issues that need to be addressed with regard to it's civil governance.[/QUOTE]
"Issues that need to be addressed" is a massive understatement.
I just feel like this massive Iran support movement going on should be tampered a bit considering that they are about the opposite of a free nation. People are parading around about how Iran is reforming, and point out all the rhetoric, but they point out almost nothing that is actually changing.
Iran sounds better, and that is about it. They won't have my support until they actually make a change in their internal governance.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42932465]
iran has no civil governance in the first place. it's a theocracy.[/QUOTE]
You're technically wrong mate. Iran's local governments are publicly elected. The members of Parliament are elected as well.
[QUOTE=draugur;42932506]You're technically wrong mate. Iran's local governments are publicly elected. The members of Parliament are elected as well.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Leader_of_Iran[/url]
This guy hasn't changed since 1989.
[B]1989.[/B]
[QUOTE=draugur;42932506]You're technically wrong mate. Iran's local governments are publicly elected. The members of Parliament are elected as well.[/QUOTE]
thats not the definition of civil governance. law in iran is administered by state authority and backed by the divine authority.
civil governance is a roman concept.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42932465]lol ok
i dont see how i'm "dumb" when i disagree with the idea that somehow, if you had to arrange them in any arbitrary ranking of freedom, Iran comes up on top in any way.[/QUOTE]
Ethiopian, Palestinian, Arab, or even non-Jewish? I can name hundreds of reasons why those people don't really care about your "arbitrary ranking of freedom". If I was Ethopian, would I want to live in Israel over Iran? Nope. Palestinian, like you said? Nope. Non-Jewish? Maybe, if I'm willing to tolerate the Jewish-only housing and roads as well as work, visa, citizenship, marriage and speech discrimination that coexists in the Israeli regime.
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42932479']"Issues that need to be addressed" is a massive understatement.
I just feel like this massive Iran support movement going on should be tampered a bit considering that they are about the opposite of a free nation. People are parading around about how Iran is reforming, and point out all the rhetoric, but they point out almost nothing that is actually changing.
Iran sounds better, and that is about it. They won't have my support until they actually make a change in their internal governance.[/QUOTE]
The reason why I said that was because I was trying to gauge what exactly was your point with Iran's issues? I never denied that. Does it have an impact on their right to nuclear power? If so, read my earlier posts.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42932529]thats not the definition of civil governance. law in iran is administered by state authority and back by the divine authority.[/QUOTE]
This is only to a relatively minor degree. Ultimately civil authority manifests itself much more in Iranian society than any "divine justification"
[QUOTE=draugur;42932506]You're technically wrong mate. Iran's local governments are publicly elected. The members of Parliament are elected as well.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about local elections, but in national elections all candidates have to be selected by a body comprised half appointed positions by the supreme leader. That pretty much, while still making it look elected, means the supreme leader approves all candidates. This ensured their ISN'T any major change.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932530]Ethiopian, Palestinian, Arab, or even non-Jewish? I can name hundreds of reasons why those people don't really care about your "arbitrary ranking of freedom". If I was Ethopian, would I want to live in Israel over Iran? Absolutely not. Palestinian, like you said? Fuck no. Non-Jewish? Maybe, if I'm willing to tolerate the Jewish-only housing and roads as well as work, visa, marriage and speech discrimination that coexists in the Israeli regime. [/QUOTE]
you really think Palestinians would prefer to live in a foreign state where they are officially persecuted as Sunni's as opposed to a state that in the very least grants them personal autonomy? i dont think you really understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Israel itself has a huge Palestinian community, while there is absolutely none in Iran. Iran didn't even take Palestinian refugees.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932530]
This is only to a relatively minor degree. Ultimately civil authority manifests itself much more in Iranian society than any "divine justification"[/QUOTE]
excuse me by definition there is no civil authority when there's divine justification. don't call me dumb when you have no idea what the terms you're using even mean.
civil authority is secular and based on the roman concept of cives romani. Iran has military authority, and religious authority. any serious political scientist would agree with that.
Their Supreme Leader supposedly does derive power from the divine, and is required in the constitution to be an Islamic Scholar. That sounds to me like a theocracy.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42932575]you really think Palestinians would prefer to live in a foreign state where they are officially persecuted as Sunni's as opposed to a state that in the very least grants them personal autonomy? i dont think you really understand the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Israel itself has a huge Palestinian community, while there is absolutely none in Iran. Iran didn't even take Palestinian refugees.[/QUOTE]
Soft-persecution (i.e. limited Sunni mosques vs. limited Palestinian houses allowed in Jewish-land) is eons better than living under the risk of death, random eviction or collective punishment, this is not disputable.
As a Palestinian in Iran, I don't have to worry about being randomly chosen as a human shield or being called collateral damage. To say you'd be better off either Israel or the occupied territories as a Palestinian is a laughable gesture demonstrating a lack of understanding of the extent of the conflict at all. Personal autonomy is "until Israel decides to step in" Their 'personal autonomy' has no economy, control of trade, sea, air or borders. It's in Israel's best interest to have security-cooperation with the Palestinians in the West Bank, but none of it have to do with conceding control.
Instead they are starved, besieged and resourceless, but hey, at least they have "internal autonomy" right?
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932651]Soft-persecution (i.e. limited Sunni mosques) is eons better than living under the risk of death, random eviction or collective punishment, this is not disputable.
As a Palestinian in Iran, I don't have to worry about being randomly chosen as a human shield or being called collateral damage. To say you'd be better off either Israel or the occupied territories as a Palestinian is a laughable gesture demonstrating a lack of understanding of the extent of the conflict at all. Personal autonomy is "until Israel decides to step in" Their 'personal autonomy' has no economy, control of trade, sea, air or borders. It's in Israel's best interest to have security-cooperation with the Palestinians in the West Bank, but none of it have to do with conceding control.
Instead they are starved, besieged and resourceless, but hey, at least they have "internal autonomy" right?[/QUOTE]
You're more educated on this than me, but to my understanding he was talking about Palestinians in interior Israel, not the west bank or occupied territories. It would be a hard decision, but I would rather live in Iran as a Palestinian than occupied areas of the west bank. Not true for actual interior Israel though, where you are a free citizen.
Take out the danger of it all, and I would pick Israel any day.
[QUOTE=Starpluck;42932651]Soft-persecution (i.e. limited Sunni mosques vs. limited Palestinian houses allowed in Jewish-land) is eons better than living under the risk of death, random eviction or collective punishment, this is not disputable.
As a Palestinian in Iran, I don't have to worry about being randomly chosen as a human shield or being called collateral damage. To say you'd be better off either Israel or the occupied territories as a Palestinian is a laughable gesture demonstrating a lack of understanding of the extent of the conflict at all. Personal autonomy is "until Israel decides to step in" Their 'personal autonomy' has no economy, control of trade, sea, air or borders. It's in Israel's best interest to have security-cooperation with the Palestinians in the West Bank, but none of it have to do with conceding control.
Instead they are starved, besieged and resourceless, but hey, at least they have "internal autonomy" right?[/QUOTE]
I said Israel, not the Gaza Strip. many Palestinians live in Israel without being killed believe it or not, over 20% of Israel in fact, and they aren't leaving. I think we can safely say that means they prefer Israel to any of their neighboring countries.
and really, "soft-persecution"? so not only do you want to deride palestinians' own community in israel, you also want to spit on the struggle of minorities in Iran? ask the Kurdish about "soft-persecution", they are violently suppressed.
[editline]20th November 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE='[sluggo];42932690']but I would rather live in Iran as a Palestinian[/QUOTE]
you really think an arab speaking Palestinian could even be accepted in Iran? give me a break.
[QUOTE=snookypookums;42932523][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Leader_of_Iran[/url]
This guy hasn't changed since 1989.
[B]1989.[/B][/QUOTE]
This girl hasn't changed since 1952.
[b]1952[/b]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Elizabeth_II_greets_NASA_GSFC_employees%2C_May_8%2C_2007_edit.jpg[/t]
[quote]you really think an arab speaking Palestinian could even be accepted in Iran? give me a break.[/QUOTE]
They wouldn't. I am agreeing with you.
I would probably take Iran versus the heat of the action in the occupied territories though, that's all I am saying.
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;42932746]This girl hasn't changed since 1952.
[b]1952[/b]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Elizabeth_II_greets_NASA_GSFC_employees%2C_May_8%2C_2007_edit.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
yes and i dont think the UK should have a royal family either hehe
[QUOTE=Paul McCartney;42932746]This girl hasn't changed since 1952.
[b]1952[/b]
[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Elizabeth_II_greets_NASA_GSFC_employees%2C_May_8%2C_2007_edit.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
She doesn't appoint most high up positions, and approve all national political candidates as far as I know.
You know, the more I learn about all this stuff, the more I think that the USA isn't actually the bad guy, we just look that way. It's like if you had 3 people in a room; One has a bomb strapped to his chest, One is a real big body builder, and the other is a normal guy. The normal guy may or may not know about the bomb, but the body builder definitely knows it's there. The guy with the bomb keeps sending secret messages to the body builder to punch the normal guy or he will detonate the bomb. The body builder obliges knowing that everyone will die if he doesn't. He takes the flak for being a bully, but rests assured at night knowing that everyone will live.
The bomb guy is isreal
the body builder is the US
the regular guy is the rest of the middle east
Is this accurate or am I mistaken?
[QUOTE=thisispain;42932706]I said Israel, not the Gaza Strip. many Palestinians live in Israel without being killed believe it or not, over 20% of Israel in fact, and they aren't leaving. I think we can safely say that means they prefer Israel to any of their neighboring countries.
and really, "soft-persecution"? so not only do you want to deride palestinians' own community in israel, you also want to spit on the struggle of minorities in Iran? ask the Kurdish about "soft-persecution", they are violently suppressed.[/QUOTE]
Kurdish people aren't Palestinian. Ignoring the fact that the real issues they face lies in Turkey and Iraq - Kurdish persecution has little to do with Sunnism at all.
Please don't give me that crap about how Israel-proper is some beacon of freedom in the midst of it's own bullshit. Palestinian population in Israel has little to do with the abuses they face. Partly because, it's their fucking home? You and sluggo seem to have this deluded perception that while Israel is atrocious in the WB and Gaza, they're actually "really" good in Israel mainland.'
Here are some obvious examples in Israel-proper that seemed to have flown over your head
[B]List of apartheid policies in Israel proper[/B]:
The law of return is an official government policy that completely and indisputably gives one race rights over others. If you're a Jew, no matter where you live, were born, whatever your connection to Israel is (or lack thereof), you automatically acquire citizenship. Palestinians on the other hand are not given the same considerations despite being an indigenous group.
The Jewish National Fund in conjunction with the Israeli government is a racist organization that seeks to deprive land from Arabs for Jews. For example, if the JNF gives land to an Arab, the Israeli government must compensate by giving the same amount of land to Jews in order to maintain the status quo of Arab land ownership in Israel (a measly 3% is the maximum total all Arabs can collectively own under Israeli law)
Israel's government spends far less money per Jewish student then it does for every Arab student. A HRW report ([URL="http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel2/ISRAEL0901-01.htm"]http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/isra...AEL0901-01.htm[/URL]) shows systematic discrimination in the number, quality and condition of the buildings, classroom sizes, provision of teaching resources and government funding.
By law, Arabs are required to Hebrew to advanced level whilst Jews learn barely the introduction of Arabic.
Employment discrimination in Israel is a very serious problem, they make up 6% of Israel's civil service. The discrimination is so horrid, that the first 36 locations known to having the worst employment rates in Israel are Arab localities.
Palestinian speech activists are continually arrested and placed in solitary confinement under faux legislation which has led to the EU calling for their releases on numerous occasions.
Israel's government has an instituted policy to try to limit Arab population growth whilst increasing Jewish presence. They set up something called the "Demographic Council" whose sole mission is to research ways to accomplish this. The effects of this are pretty obvious as the 20% figure you proudly showed off is only represented by 5 members of the Israeli parliament (which of whom are periodically banned or have restrictions imposed on by the Jewish-dominant Knesset)
Arab citizens are not allowed to travel to the WB freely, unlike their Jewish counterparts who possess roads exclusive to them.
70K of Israel's Bedouin inhabitants are not recognized by Israel, despite living on the land before the state's inception. In addition to cutting water and electricity, Israel routinely demolishes Bedouin homes and in add has a policy of spraying herbicides on Bedouin crops via plane.
The Israeli government doesn't grant recognition to holy sites that aren't Jewish.
There is no such thing as "Israeli nationality" only Jews can be Israeli.
I know the compromise where you acknowledge WB and Gaza a d shitty but there's none of that in the "real" Israel proper- that's bullshit and used to whitewash Israel's crimes.. Even without living in the occupied territories, Israel still is an oppressive shithole unless you're Jewish™.
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