• Cyber-bullies could face two years in jail under new internet troll rules in UK
    103 replies, posted
So... what's all that about? I kind of couldn't figure out from the article. What is a crime - when you get consistently "followed" by a person you don't know who subjects you to all sorts of verbal abuse by E-mail, on social networks, where-ever they may find you, or that "single instance of "ur a faget"" example? If that's the first one, sure, that should be a crime (though 2 years is way too much). If it's really about "trolling" than it's bullshit. What seems to evade some people's attention, is that "cyber-bullying" can be a legitimate concern: when you just get harassed on some social network by someone you don't know, it's not big deal (it isn't, unless you're overly sensitive). The problem starts when either it's very consistent (like, more than a month) or it starts spilling in other media you use. In these two cases, you can really start worrying for your well-being, because if some kind of person dedicates so much time on stalking you on-line, who's to say it won't get into your actual life as well. Plus, such person is clearly not alright and should be checked anyway. And when it's a person you know who does it, there's nothing "cyber" about it, it's just straight up harassment.
I still don't get how people get cyber bullied over a period of time. You have a ton of options at your disposal, social internet sites like Facebook allow you to make your profile private, blocking out any contact from anyone that isn't on your friends list. Filtering, blocking, making shit private, etc, it's all there available to use. Change your nickname, make new accounts, change your phone number, etc etc. There are tons of things you can do to avoid internet bullying. This whole idea of putting laws to prevent internet bullying rather than educate parents and children how to block and filter bullying is ridiculous. When it's bullying by someone you know the internet bullying is not the real meat of the problem to begin with, that's just normal bullying where the internet is also used (still blockable but possibly hard to avoid the person finding your new information), that's something that needs to be dealt with in person with the person bullying.
[QUOTE=dgg;44368353]I still don't get how people get cyber bullied over a period of time. You have a ton of options at your disposal, social internet sites like Facebook allow you to make your profile private, blocking out any contact from anyone that isn't on your friends list. Filtering, blocking, making shit private, etc, it's all there available to use. Change your nickname, make new accounts, change your phone number, etc etc. There are tons of things you can do to avoid internet bullying. This whole idea of putting laws to prevent internet bullying rather than educate parents and children how to block and filter bullying is ridiculous. When it's bullying by someone you know the internet bullying is not the real meat of the problem to begin with, that's just normal bullying where the internet is also used (still blockable but possibly hard to avoid the person finding your new information), that's something that needs to be dealt with in person with the person bullying.[/QUOTE] The point is sort of that the victim isn't supposed to have to resort to all that. Very much like a victim of physical bullying is not supposed to have to stop coming to their school. Much like bullying in real life it locks you out of social circles and blocking people does nothing but further isolate a person. Also, anti-bullying campaigns help fuck-all. Scary and seemingly invasive laws like this blows, but going after the bullies is really the only effective measure.
[QUOTE=orcywoo6;44363521]Shit like this gets me so livid. All it does is allow more control and silly laws like this to creep in. Any person with a brain will know of these buttons. They should learn to use them. [IMG]http://www.cefls.org/images/esenior_power_button2.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7KEi6/a065493113.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] My younger cousin gets bullied fairly relentlessly online. People don't outright publically insult her but the second she says anything that doesn't quite make sense (she's special needs) they are right in there with their mocking comments. The other day she messaged me saying someone had made a fake profile of her and was using it to start arguments with other nasty kids who were then giving her shit at school for it. It's not as simple as just turning your machine off and not using Facebook anymore. They always find a way to get at you. In this case it'd be HILARIOUS to get the police involved. I don't think a two year jail sentence would be a fitting outcome but it'd certainly scare the shit out of the little bastards. Kids can be so cruel.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;44368508]The point is sort of that the victim isn't supposed to have to resort to all that. Very much like a victim of physical bullying is not supposed to have to stop coming to their school. Much like bullying in real life it locks you out of social circles and blocking people does nothing but further isolate a person. Also, anti-bullying campaigns help fuck-all. Scary and seemingly invasive laws like this blows, but going after the bullies is really the only effective measure.[/QUOTE] no no no no no no no You very much have to cut ties with the assholes in your life that you can cut ties with. The same way you don't hang out with a fucking asshole that treats you like shit or you don't keep dating a girl that treats you like garbage, you stop being with them, you stop them from communicating with you and being able to get a hold of you. The internet provides you those means. Making your profile private does not stop you from using the site or interacting with friends. Blocking specific people does not block everyone else on your list. Making a new account or changing number only means you have to inform your non-bullying friends about it. This is not at all in any possible, not even the slightest, way comparable to stop going to school. Blocking and making a profile private is not the same as not having a profile at all. Going after the bullies is the dumbest and most missinformed thing I've ever heard of (and keep hearing of). It's human nature to bully, to be jealous, to find weak people to boast your own status with, to transfer your shitty feelings onto others, etc. Yes, bullies need to be dealth with, but just dealing with bullies and not teaching people how to avoid being bullied in the first place is incredibly stupid and doesn't help in the slightest. You have tools at your disposal to avoid bullying, fucking use them, teach parents and children about how they can block out shitty people from their life. It's not the governments job to manhunt bullies because the parents don't know how to make a profile private. The bullies you can't stop are the ones that needs to be dealth with, the bullies that can be blocked aren't a threat at all with proper education. It's just like teaching people to use a condom. Use condom, have safe sex. Make profile private, don't get strangers bullying you. I've been bullied in elementary- and high school myself, (not as bad bullying as much other shit I've read about, but verbally bullied and beaten on a bit) the best method has always just been to ignore them. You can't change bullies as a victim of it, you have to fight them by the lack of participation. What is the fun of bullying something that doesn't react to your bullying? Growing a sense of self-irony and understanding that those people mean jack shit to your life and what they say is only being said to try and make you react is key to success. It doesn't change them, but it changes you, and through that change you stop being bullied. [QUOTE=ChaosUnleash;44368810]My younger cousin gets bullied fairly relentlessly online. People don't outright publically insult her but the second she says anything that doesn't quite make sense (she's special needs) they are right in there with their mocking comments. The other day she messaged me saying someone had made a fake profile of her and was using it to start arguments with other nasty kids who were then giving her shit at school for it. It's not as simple as just turning your machine off and not using Facebook anymore. They always find a way to get at you. In this case it'd be HILARIOUS to get the police involved. I don't think a two year jail sentence would be a fitting outcome but it'd certainly scare the shit out of the little bastards. Kids can be so cruel.[/QUOTE] This is the kind of stuff that needs to be cracked down on. This is simply bullying, the internet is just an extra dimension to it all. These are people she physically meet and hang out with that needs to be dealt with in person.
Imagine being able to hire a hacker to frame someone and frame them for 2 years in jail/reduced job prospects.
[QUOTE=dgg;44368353]I still don't get how people get bullied over a period of time. You have a ton of options at your disposal. Filtering, blocking, making shit private, etc, it's all there available to use. Change your name, make new bank accounts, move house, move town, move country, change your phone number, etc etc. There are tons of things you can do to avoid bullying. This whole idea of putting laws to prevent bullying rather than educate parents and children how to go into hiding is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
If this only applies to extreme cases like death threats and real world harassment via phone calls and what not then isn't all that shit already illegal in the first place and punishable?? If it's not some general online trolling that is easy to shrug off and ignore, then it's usually something encroaching on someone's personal life, which again, isn't all that shit already illegal? Why does this law need to exist to specify cyber bullying and shit. Seems like complicating more shit and more wasted time determining what is and what isn't specifically worth punishing and what isn't.
[QUOTE=orcywoo6;44363521] [IMG]http://www.cefls.org/images/esenior_power_button2.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7KEi6/a065493113.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Why is this stupid shit getting so much love?, cyber bullying is different from popping into someones private messages saying "you are really ugly hahahaha- nerd". Imagine you are one of the unfortunate teens who gets severely bullied at school, going to school is a constant torrent of verbal abuse, relentless intimidation, and the occasional physical assault- getting off the school bus each morning is like stepping into a warzone. After each day the only thing that lets you stay sane after what was essentially five hours of near constant emotional and physical abuse- is sitting at your computer, playing some games, and socializing with what few friends you have, in an environment where you aren't too anxious about being harassed and beaten up to talk to people. Making an effort of Putting the images of the day out of your mind, you log in to your online friendface profile to ask a friend if hes up for a match of team fortress 2- when what pops up in your feed- a photo shopped picture of your own face,- the composition is some twattish attempt at putting that nasty nickname you've been given into visual format- you now see nearly thirty people you recognize from school 'liking' it, and discussing how much of an ugly freak you are in the comments, and wondering aloud why you don't just do everyone a favor and kill yourself. [i]yeah what a fucking idiot lmao just turn off ur computer and it all goes away faggit lol ammarite guies~[/i]
[QUOTE=fulgrim;44370167]Why is this stupid shit getting so much love?, cyber bullying is different from popping into someones private messages saying "you are really ugly hahahaha- nerd". Imagine you are one of the unfortunate teens who gets severely bullied at school, going to school is a constant torrent of verbal abuse, relentless intimidation, and the occasional physical assault- getting off the school bus each morning is like stepping into a warzone. After each day the only thing that lets you stay sane after what was essentially five hours of near constant emotional and physical abuse- is sitting at your computer, playing some games, and socializing with what few friends you have, in an environment where you aren't too anxious about being harassed and beaten up to talk to people. Making an effort of Putting the images of the day out of your mind, you log in to your online friendface profile to ask a friend if hes up for a match of team fortress 2- when what pops up in your feed- a photo shopped picture of your own face,- the composition is some twattish attempt at putting that nasty nickname you've been given into visual format- you now see nearly thirty people you recognize from school 'liking' it, and discussing how much of an ugly freak you are in the comments, and wondering aloud why you don't just do everyone a favor and kill yourself. [i]yeah what a fucking idiot lmao just turn off ur computer and it all goes away faggit lol ammarite guies~[/i][/QUOTE] You can a) unfollow, keeping them on your friends list to not make them bugger you about it but still not see jack shit that they post. b) Unfriend them so you can't see any of their shit (and if you make your profile private they won't be able to send you any messages) c) Block and report them so they can never be your friend again. [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttoseethis.jpg[/img] - [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttofriendthis.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Ownederd;44363542]it isn't really that simple sometimes.[/QUOTE] Just fake email everytime you want to send something, that is lol.. [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=dgg;44370316]You can a) unfollow, keeping them on your friends list to not make them bugger you about it but still not see jack shit that they post. b) Unfriend them so you can't see any of their shit (and if you make your profile private they won't be able to send you any messages) c) Block and report them so they can never be your friend again. [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttoseethis.jpg[/img] - [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttofriendthis.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] What if new person wants to friend you with name "LOLFAAG KIILLURSELF" See what I have done here, I went over facebooks filter for vulgural words and he can't really block himself from new people adding him
[QUOTE=Krooms;44369960]If this only applies to extreme cases like death threats and real world harassment via phone calls and what not then isn't all that shit already illegal in the first place and punishable?? If it's not some general online trolling that is easy to shrug off and ignore, then it's usually something encroaching on someone's personal life, which again, isn't all that shit already illegal? Why does this law need to exist to specify cyber bullying and shit. Seems like complicating more shit and more wasted time determining what is and what isn't specifically worth punishing and what isn't.[/QUOTE] Exactly this, if it's serious enough that anyone feels threatened then that would be harassment, they've already applied the public order act to online so everything else in there is also applicable. If it's photoshopping/rumours like somebody else posted, then there's slander laws etc... Whoever thought we need a new law is pandering to mums and old people. Pathetic really.
[QUOTE=dgg;44370316]You can a) unfollow, keeping them on your friends list to not make them bugger you about it but still not see jack shit that they post. b) Unfriend them so you can't see any of their shit (and if you make your profile private they won't be able to send you any messages) c) Block and report them so they can never be your friend again. [/QUOTE] Unless you set your profile up in a very specific way, you can see friends of friends posts from time to time, i wasnt suggesting the kid would be online friends with people who bully him or her. and yes you could just block half the school one student at a time whenever you see them sharing this stuff, but that still means you are subjected to it, and even if you finally manage to block everyone it doesn't matter, because by then its too late, you still know its going on. if Someone is putting printout photo-shops of your face up around school with captions inciting bullying against you, and people are picking on you because of these photos, does not looking at them make the problem go away?
A girl at my old school refused to leave me alone. She followed me on facebook, youtube, and even a couple [I]forums[/I]. It wasn't just "haha yu suck". It was stuff like "you're a disgusting faggot" "your sisters are failures" "I'm glad your grandpa's dead" "you'll always be alone. [I]This was the 6th grade.[/I] I couldn't go to the teachers since I knew they wouldn't believe me, since her mum was a total suckup to the administration. One day, I finally cracked. I lashed out and told her that if she kept this up, I'd kick her ass and make her "regret what she's done". And you know what happened? I got kicked out of school, even though we brought up all of the stuff she said about me, and how long she had been harassing me. [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] Should I have just "closed my eyes"? just "turned off the computer"? I had [I]no fucking friends[/I] because of what she would spread around the school.
This whole "lol turn off the computer" ideal pretty much gives people a free pass to do whatever it seems. Time to harass everyone and claim "they can just turn off the computer lol"
[QUOTE=HeatPipe;44370344]What if new person wants to friend you with name "LOLFAAG KIILLURSELF" See what I have done here, I went over facebooks filter for vulgural words and he can't really block himself from new people adding him[/QUOTE] [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttofriendyou.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=fulgrim;44370482]Unless you set your profile up in a very specific way, you can see friends of friends posts from time to time, i wasnt suggesting the kid would be online friends with people who bully him or her. and yes you could just block half the school one student at a time whenever you see them sharing this stuff, but that still means you are subjected to it, and even if you finally manage to block everyone it doesn't matter, because by then its too late, you still know its going on. if Someone is putting printout photo-shops of your face up around school with captions inciting bullying against you, and people are picking on you because of these photos, does not looking at them make the problem go away?[/QUOTE] Set your profile up in a specific way, that's the whole fucking point here. "Unless you don't do what you need to do in order to avoid bullying you will be bullied" well yes, good job coming to that conclusion. It can keep going on, that's fine, the important part is that you're not seeing it, that you're not drowning yourself in other peoples horrendous acts towards you. Ignorance is bliss, and ignoring the shit they do and say is one of the strongest preventive measures for bullying. The strongest is obviously using it against them by embracing what they say and live it out or at least tell that you accept it. When all their insults are accepted without any negative emotions attached it suddenly loses all impact and meaning. "Your dick is so fucking small, bet you could fuck a coinhole" "Yeah, I do it all the time, want to see me do it?" "uhhh... what?" Also don't bring in the physical world into this, we're talking about cyberbullying. The bullying happening in the real world with real people have nothing to do with it, that's an entirely different problem that has to be dealt with in an entirely different way. Arguments for preventing cyberbullying can not be applied to real world bullying.
I doubt even the court really understand the concept of trolling if it's a cyber bullying issue. The fact it seems to be quite ambiguous as a legal term isn't good for law. We'll just have to wait until the vote on it and see what the government's interpretation of "trolling" is and see if it actually translates from trolling or cyber bullying.
[QUOTE=orcywoo6;44363521]Shit like this gets me so livid. All it does is allow more control and silly laws like this to creep in. Any person with a brain will know of these buttons. They should learn to use them. [IMG]http://www.cefls.org/images/esenior_power_button2.JPG[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/7KEi6/a065493113.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] I knew a guy who, despite making new accounts at places, blocking shit, and generally trying to avoid a group of people (who he used to hang out with and actively troll gaming communities in, go figure), they were extremely persistent and unendingly sent him death threats and spread a lot of slander to people they assumed to be contacts of any sort. Hell, even I got death threats emailed and sent through tumblr and crap from a handful of them, but it wasn't all that powerful given they kept calling me the wrong name. you get someone with a vendetta and some free time and they'll happily work around shit. [editline]e[/editline] seems most people commented on portions of this kind of situation already, there you have it
[QUOTE=dgg;44370316]You can a) unfollow, keeping them on your friends list to not make them bugger you about it but still not see jack shit that they post. b) Unfriend them so you can't see any of their shit (and if you make your profile private they won't be able to send you any messages) c) Block and report them so they can never be your friend again. [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttoseethis.jpg[/img] - [img]http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3655193/Idontwanttofriendthis.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Massive super simplification of generally consistent, stalking abusiveness that is online bullying. [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Nightsure;44370697]I doubt even the court really understand the concept of trolling if it's a cyber bullying issue. The fact it seems to be quite ambiguous as a legal term isn't good for law. We'll just have to wait until the vote on it and see what the government's interpretation of "trolling" is and see if it actually translates from trolling or cyber bullying.[/QUOTE] This will probably becoming something similar to US Hate Crime laws.
I, for one, think that this is a good new rule.
[QUOTE=dgg;44370649] Also don't bring in the physical world into this, we're talking about cyberbullying. The bullying happening in the real world with real people have nothing to do with it, that's an entirely different problem that has to be dealt with in an entirely different way. Arguments for preventing cyberbullying can not be applied to real world bullying.[/QUOTE] What you fail to see here is that cyber-bullying isnt some separate entity from "real" bullying, its often an extension of it. if people are spreading rumors about you around social networks do you honestly think blocking the person doing it is going to prevent the social fallout you are going to receive when you turn up at school the next day? imagine some guy starts posting on friend-face that you have incest gay sex with your 10 year old brother, compete with convincing photoshop 'evidence!', but don't worry, you've blocked him so surely nobody is going to care right?.
This shit doesn't happen in a vaccum.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;44370890]What you fail to see here is that cyber-bullying isnt some separate entity from "real" bullying, its often an extension of it. if people are spreading rumors about you around social networks do you honestly think blocking the person doing it is going to prevent the social fallout you are going to receive when you turn up at school the next day? imagine some guy starts posting on friend-face that you have incest gay sex with your 10 year old brother, compete with convincing photoshop 'evidence!', but don't worry, you've blocked him so surely nobody is going to care right?.[/QUOTE] No, I absolutely see that, I have already covered that. What I'm saying is that cyberbullying and bullying is still two different things that needs to be dealt with in their own ways because they are not the same thing even if they are done by the same people. You can't block people in real life, you can block people on the internet. Those kind of differences are huge. When the cyberbullies are also bullies in the real world then the cyberbullying is completely redundant and unimportant to focus on because that's not the problem. (of course, still make them unable to access you) The problem is plain old bullying as has always existed and has always been a problem. It has literally nothing to do with cyberbullying, cyberbullying is not where it started, not where it will end and not where the most damage is done. Bullies that the person has to meet and be around with needs to be dealt with in the real world, no matter what you do in terms of the cyberbullying aspect of these people have no (positive) effect on what you do in the real world. When we're talking about cyberbullying we should be specifically isolate it to the idea of people you don't know bullying you. Anything else is as stated and reasoned above, completely meaningless. [editline]27th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;44370819]Massive super simplification of generally consistent, stalking abusiveness that is online bullying.[/QUOTE] The general population has no means to contact you on the internet if you do not give them the means to do so.
Except you shouldn't have to leave a service because someone is harassing you which is generally what happens. You block one and then a bunch of other people start harassing you. Most of these cases harassment online using facebook and the life are [B]extensions[/B] of someone's real life bullies using the internet or their job literally walks them into a landmind of angry man children.
[QUOTE=fulgrim;44370167]Why is this stupid shit getting so much love?, cyber bullying is different from popping into someones private messages saying "you are really ugly hahahaha- nerd". Imagine you are one of the unfortunate teens who gets severely bullied at school, going to school is a constant torrent of verbal abuse, relentless intimidation, and the occasional physical assault- getting off the school bus each morning is like stepping into a warzone. [/QUOTE] So in these scenarios, you're bullied in real life and on the internet. Are both as bad as each other? Or is the irl "warzone" worse than the internet? Because even if it's not worse, and just as bad, should the warzone irl bullying be punishable by two years of jail time? and why not, if the on par internet bullying can be punishable for two years, perhaps we should also ban in school bullying via jail time? Do both equally cause the same negative effects? If so, and going by this logic, then both should be punishable by two years jail time, yea?
Also does anyone know why it keeps referring the Criminal Justice Act as the Criminal Justice [I]Bill?[/I] That would mean it hasn't even passed Parliament and they are amending it.
[I]So, humm, what did you do to end up here?[/I] I killed my family and ate their flesh [I]Well.. that's humm... interesting[/I] What about you, what did you do [I]I... aaaa... I called some wanker on the internet a faggot...[/I]
[QUOTE=Swilly;44372227]Except you shouldn't have to leave a service because someone is harassing you which is generally what happens. You block one and then a bunch of other people start harassing you. Most of these cases harassment online using facebook and the life are [B]extensions[/B] of someone's real life bullies using the internet or their job literally walks them into a landmind of angry man children.[/QUOTE] Is this a reply to my post? Because if so, it doesn't seem like you read it at all.
I think the reason why ocry's post is getting a lot of agrees is because [b]people are confusing cyber-bullying with just casual throwaway insults[/b]. Cyber bullying is just bullying, but involving the use of electronic communication. It involves a lot more than just some person saying you suck in a game of DOTA. It's [I]deliberate[/I] verbal harassment, defamation, stalking, or other violent or abusive behavior that is [I]repeated[/I] to the point where it can cause [I]severe psychological distress[/I]. You can block the occasional shitposter on the internet. You can't block some person who made a web page about how you are a pervert, loser, or other made up nonsense, who posts your personal information on the internet, gossips untrue statements to all the people you know and ruins your life at school or work because of it.
I'm too lazy to check the whole thread but I hope someone has posted the Tyler, The Creator quotes.
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