Nine Afghan boys collecting firewood killed by NATO helicopters
233 replies, posted
That's shit.
And tho those joking about the fire wood.
They didn't open fire because they thought they were carrying weapons. They opened fire to deal with enemies that supposedly attacked a Nato base earlier.
The green flash was an IR Strobe, am I correct?
[QUOTE=3com111;28402267]What shit parent lets their kids run off in a war torn country at night? Can't blame NATO, blame the shit parents.[/QUOTE]
Read the article before making retarded posts.
[quote]“The children were all from poor families; otherwise no one would send their sons up to the mountains despite the known threats from both insurgents and Americans.”[/quote]
[QUOTE=Dr Magnusson;28400846]This is a tragedy without a doubt, but you shouldn't judge the pilots before you've heard the whole story.
I doubt these people go through years of training to be known internationally as baby killers.
It's easy to be offended when you're sitting behind a desk, miles away with only a vague recount of what happened, but I can assure you that this wasn't just one guy going "Hey Jim, let's take out those kids collecting firewood, it'll be hilarious!"[/QUOTE]
Following your arguments you CAN'T assure that and humans are assholes.
I'm not saying it happened like that but we have tp take it into consideration just as the "by accident" theory.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bluesummers;28402377]Gun cams are not high res....[/QUOTE]
No excuse. If you can't see shit, don't shoot.
[QUOTE=Eluveitie;28399780]Oh that's fucking pathetic. I mean, it's wood. It doesn't look like a gun.[/QUOTE]
Mine does. :smug:
This is why you confirm your fucking enemy before you just open fire on them.
[QUOTE=Dr Magnusson;28400846]This is a tragedy without a doubt, but you shouldn't judge the pilots before you've heard the whole story.
I doubt these people go through years of training to be known internationally as baby killers.[/QUOTE]
Haven't you seen the video on wikileaks where they open up on a bunch of reporters and kill them all thinking a camera is an RPG, then they open up on a guy taking his two kids to school who stops to help, killing him and almost killing his two young kids.
The gunner then says 'Oh well...Thats what you get for bringing your kids to a battlefield'
[QUOTE=Killuah;28403061]Following your arguments you CAN'T assure that[/QUOTE]
I know.
[QUOTE=Killuah;28403061]and humans are assholes.[/QUOTE]
There's quite a jump from "Asshole" to "Murderer"
[QUOTE=Killuah;28403061]
I'm not saying it happened like that but we have tp take it into consideration just as the "by accident" theory.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
[QUOTE=Lilolia;28403164]Haven't you seen the video on wikileaks where they open up on a bunch of reporters and kill them all thinking a camera is an RPG, then they open up on a guy taking his two kids to school who stops to help, killing him and almost killing his two young kids.
The gunner then says 'Oh well...Thats what you get for bringing your kids to a battlefield'[/QUOTE]
I have seen that video and while it has absolutely nothing to do with this case, you yourself pointed out that they fired on them because they thought they had RPGs, and as I recall, they had a fellow unit on the ground only few blocks away, in which case I fully support their "Better safe than sorry" policy.
You can't put on your western spectacles when looking at the middle east, it is a shithole, and the guy with the kids might aswell have tried to get a hold of the weapon to continue the fight, to some of the real fanatics, their kids are just tools of destruction.
People seem to be missing the most horrifying part of the story:
[quote]...A 10th boy survived....[/quote]
Just imagine, he barely survived a helicopter gunship attack, with his closest friends friends dying next to him. That's going to be one hell of a trumatized life.
[QUOTE=Dr Magnusson;28403577]I have seen that video and while it has absolutely nothing to do with this case, you yourself pointed out that they fired on them because they thought they had RPGs, and as I recall, they had a fellow unit on the ground only few blocks away, in which case I fully support their "Better safe than sorry" policy.
You can't put on your western spectacles when looking at the middle east, it is a shithole, and the guy with the kids might aswell have tried to get a hold of the weapon to continue the fight, to some of the real fanatics, their kids are just tools of destruction.[/QUOTE]
So you agree that they should just kill potentially innocent people without getting proper confirmation first? The guy with the kids saw a bunch of people laying half dead by the road and tried to help, he didnt even have a gun in his hands yet they slaughtered him and his kids are most likely dead now because of the wounds they recieved. Just because he was helping wounded enemies, doesnt automatically give them the right to fire on him, its against the geneva convention.
My point is the gunner just killed a civilian and two kids and all he says is 'Oh well', as if theres nothing wrong with killing innocent people over there.
In the video as well you can also see they clearly dont have RPGs, one of them is holding a camera with one arm and they are all just standing around talking in a circle before they get ripped apart by helicopter fire.
[QUOTE=Janizaurd;28403733]Just imagine, he barely survived a helicopter gunship attack, with his closest friends friends dying next to him. That's going to be one hell of a trumatized life.[/QUOTE]
Such is life in Afghanistan. :smith:
[QUOTE=Pantz76;28402372]Why do people keep addressing the government as "America"?
And there have been British civilian kills at the same percentage as Americans. We aren't retards who purposely shoot kids while th UK has a spotless record.[/QUOTE]
Proof ? The US has over 90 thousand soldiers there the UK has less than 15 thousand. I think the odds are that the US has killed more civilians than what the UK has. But they are both as bad as each other really.
Also it seems as though they are retards who do seem to not even confirm their targets before they shoot at them.
If this happened in the US everybody in charge would be screaming war crimes but because it has happened in Afghan no one really gives a shit and it will be forgotten about in no less than a month.
[QUOTE=Soldier32;28402016]Lol, I remember the USA Helicopter incident and everyone raged mostly because it was USA. Now, people are more understanding. Typical FP.[/QUOTE]
What thread are you reading
because it ain't this one
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;28401158]Last time when I checked, this is also a deviate version of the AK47
[img_thumb]http://i.fosfor.se/i07/070707_3a.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
Are you retarded? That's CLEARLY an RPG.
Oh for fuck's sake...:doh:
Seriously, the Taliban don't linger after attacking an enemy base they wade into the fog and disappear. They wouldn't fucking stand there like deer waiting to be hit by a truck.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;28401158]Last time when I checked, this is also a deviate version of the AK47
[img_thumb]http://i.fosfor.se/i07/070707_3a.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
You're wrong. The incident you're referencing was because of the huge canon telephoto lens resembling an rpg. Of course a dslr doesn't look like an assault rifle. There's a big difference. If you saw the clip you can see how the mistake would have been made too.
[QUOTE]The only survivor, Hemad, 11,[/QUOTE]
he mad
Wow. Seriously?
Reminds me of the time a destroyer shot down an Iraqi commuter jet because the radar signal showed an Iranian F-14. GG Modern Technology.
Not Accurate That Often [img]http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff286/nfforums/NF%20smilies/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif[/img]
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr Magnusson;28400846]This is a tragedy without a doubt, but you shouldn't judge the pilots before you've heard the whole story.
I doubt these people go through years of training to be known internationally as baby killers.
It's easy to be offended when you're sitting behind a desk, miles away with only a vague recount of what happened, but I can assure you that this wasn't just one guy going "Hey Jim, let's take out those kids collecting firewood, it'll be hilarious!"[/QUOTE]
And here come the apologists.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Strongbad;28401118]If you think THIS is fucked up you need to hear why they'd think that. Insurgents can and do train children as young as 8 to run into targeted places with bombs strapped to them.
[url]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/03/28/2010-03-28_taliban_schools_teach_kids_the_abcs_of_terror.html[/url]
[url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/02/taliban-buying-children-to-serve-as-suicide-bomber/[/url][/QUOTE]
So this justifies killing 9 innocent children?
This is pathetic :(
[QUOTE=Matrix374;28400986]even though it is very sad,people are overreacting about it too much[/QUOTE]
Being outraged at trigger happy gunman killing children is not cause for ANY alarm?
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;28402246]And yet more families turn to the Taliban. Kudos NATO[/QUOTE]
Well fuck me, I wonder why.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pantz76;28402372]Why do people keep addressing the government as "America"?
And there have been British civilian kills at the same percentage as Americans. We aren't retards who purposely shoot kids while th UK has a spotless record.[/QUOTE]
The UK is significantly lower in military presence there. Brits have their share of fuckups, but the US military seems to take the cake in constant colossal fuckups.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bluesummers;28402377]Gun cams are not high res....[/QUOTE]
Then you don't shoot. Making inferences with peoples lives is bullshit.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dr Magnusson;28403577]
You can't put on your western spectacles when looking at the middle east.[/QUOTE]
You fucking fail to do this on your own military apologist end. While you have to be more careful looking for enemies in the middle east, you seem to fucking forget there are MORE civilians then combatants there and you have to watch out for civilians. Can you for once admit that the military is fucking trigger happy and cares little for the lives of civilians?
in ALL cases of things like this. You always hear shit like "well they had something that LOOKED somewhat like a weapon" without giving any consideration to the fact these guys A: WANT to shoot because they're bored or whatever and B: act quickly, irrationally and don't question if the people they're going to kill are children or journalists or what have you.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=CottonTM;28405680]You're wrong. The incident you're referencing was because of the huge canon telephoto lens resembling an rpg. Of course a dslr doesn't look like an assault rifle. There's a big difference. If you saw the clip you can see how the mistake would have been made too.[/QUOTE]
I saw the clip, lol, looked like a tripod and a camera. Stop defending it.
I think everyone with strong feelings about this topic should read The Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrel.
The book is a first hand account about the kind of stuff that goes on in Afghanistan and does a very good job explaining how the ROE affect the soldiers and how they operate.
It may not change your mind completely, but it will give you some perspective when it comes to tragedies like this.
Personally I think the civilian deaths were a horrible tragedy as they always are, but that's what happens during war. If the pilots are investigated and found to be guilty of killing the civilians in an unlawful manner, then fuck them. But if they followed all of the rules, I think it is wrong to hold this against them.
Well at least they came clean about it fairly soon.
I request to see the gun camera footage. Remember, gunship cameras do not see in normal view. They are FLIR which means that anything with heat just shows up as a black hot or white hot silhouette. We should be allowed to see the footage, and THEN we can speculate.
I thought we were supposed to be helping Afghanistan, not killing their kids. :rolleyes:
This war has been fucking stupid since day 1.
[QUOTE=The LocalFlavor;28406708]
in ALL cases of things like this. You always hear shit like "well they had something that LOOKED somewhat like a weapon" without giving any consideration to the fact these guys A: WANT to shoot because they're bored or whatever and B: act quickly, irrationally and don't question if the people they're going to kill are children or journalists or what have you.
[editline]3rd March 2011[/editline]
I saw the clip, lol, looked like a tripod and a camera. Stop defending it.[/QUOTE]
Just two things, firstly i doubt that the helicopter pilots would have opened fire without some sort of confirmation, and secondly, as someone else has pointed out before you have the luxury of going back and KNOWING they were holding a tripod+camera.
You can pause the video, go "hey look, there are the legs of the thing that i already knew was a tripod" and come to the conclusion that pilots are trigger happy and out to murder civilians. Its probably a little bit more difficult to tell when it could mean the death of other people on the ground, and it could be anything
Yes, this is a tragedy. But for every one of these im sure there are 100s of successful operations that arnt publicised. Stop just thinking that the military is out to murder civilians.
[QUOTE=99% More Fail;28406440]Wow. Seriously?
Reminds me of the time a destroyer shot down an Iraqi commuter jet because the radar signal showed an Iranian F-14. GG Modern Technology.[/QUOTE]
Wow, I hadn't heard about this. Do you have a source? This seems like a pretty big failure somewhere along the line.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;28401158]Last time when I checked, this is also a deviate version of the AK47
[img_thumb]http://i.fosfor.se/i07/070707_3a.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
There was some picture in the LMAO thread a while ago that was some chart identifying the enemies and a guy standing with a camera on a tripod was like some rocket launcher or something and a bunch of others.
[QUOTE=hansjurgen;28407112]I think everyone with strong feelings about this topic should read The Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrel.
The book is a first hand account about the kind of stuff that goes on in Afghanistan and does a very good job explaining how the ROE affect the soldiers and how they operate.
It may not change your mind completely, but it will give you some perspective when it comes to tragedies like this.
Personally I think the civilian deaths were a horrible tragedy as they always are, but that's what happens during war. If the pilots are investigated and found to be guilty of killing the civilians in an unlawful manner, then fuck them. But if they followed all of the rules, I think it is wrong to hold this against them.[/QUOTE]
I am so sick of people using the excuse 'oh shit happens in war' as a justification for these atrocities.
I think I would make sure those things were guns and they were planning on using them before I killed children. But thats just me.
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