• Nine Afghan boys collecting firewood killed by NATO helicopters
    233 replies, posted
The entire thing was insinuating that the NATO forces are no better than the Taliban, and the Taliban have more support than I put forth. Aside from that, this still isn't about Iraq. It's about Afghanistan, which came first - if you want to talk about US entry into Iraq, get a different thread.
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[QUOTE=hegrec;28399800]We need to just jump ship. You can't force the ideals of a democracy on these guys anyways. We are making too many mistakes over there. I wish the US government would just admit they fucked up, and pull all the troops home.[/QUOTE] Is forcing democracy on someone democratic in any way?
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28400366]Mostly the United States though.[/QUOTE] America was the majority of the Allied force in Western Europe during WW2, are we going to say that it`s all their doing for Alled victory ? Or do we just want to pick and choose who we blame in the pool of guilty ? [editline]22nd February 2013[/editline] Oh my, did not realize this thread is ancient. Sorry !
Way to necro the thread guys, I didn't realize this was two years old until I had already read the whole story
[QUOTE=Ridge;28431278]Usama bin Laden? [editline]4th March 2011[/editline] How old would you say this guy on top of the mountain is? Because that is how the gunners see pretty much everything... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xOgzR.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Um yeah if this is how gunners see things then they definitely shouldn't be allowed to make kill calls with vision like this.
[QUOTE=Strongbad;28401118]If you think THIS is fucked up you need to hear why they'd think that. Insurgents can and do train children as young as 8 to run into targeted places with bombs strapped to them. [url]http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/03/28/2010-03-28_taliban_schools_teach_kids_the_abcs_of_terror.html[/url] [url]http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/02/taliban-buying-children-to-serve-as-suicide-bomber/[/url][/QUOTE] Oh shit I wonder why! Maybe its because we fuck them up so much that they resort to such measures. When we go into a country for more than 10 years shit gets old for everyone, so of course they result to this crap. It's like a game of push and shove. But with more murder and a lot more helicopters.
[QUOTE=Ridge;28431278]Usama bin Laden? [editline]4th March 2011[/editline] How old would you say this guy on top of the mountain is? Because that is how the gunners see pretty much everything... [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xOgzR.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] actually this video shows how gunners see things, where the hell is that image even from? [video=youtube;is9sxRfU-ik]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is9sxRfU-ik[/video]
Oh wow I remember this thread, can't believe it's already been nearly two years, feels like it was just a couple months ago.
[QUOTE=Electrocuter;39681376]Oh wow I remember this thread, can't believe it's already been nearly two years, feels like it was just a couple months ago.[/QUOTE] welp, i was fooled :downs: :suicide:
Goddamn people have to read fucking dates before you post.
[QUOTE=Eluveitie;28399780]Oh that's fucking pathetic. I mean, it's wood. It doesn't look like a gun.[/QUOTE] I think if anything, wood is one of the most 'accidentally gun like' things I can think of. [img]http://evansheline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/from-stick-wood-to-toy-gun.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=hegrec;28399800]We need to just jump ship. You can't force the ideals of a democracy on these guys anyways. We are making too many mistakes over there. I wish the US government would just admit they fucked up, and pull all the troops home.[/QUOTE] Welcome to Vietnam 2.0
[QUOTE=Pantz76;28400331]You know the UK invaded too. And Germany. And Poland. And Turkey. And many others.[/QUOTE] NATO basically I thought NATO is suppossed to be a defense program,not "good glorious holy god the killed some random guy let's go there and fuck shit up and cause more problems just because someone commited human rights violations!"
[QUOTE=IPK;39681917]NATO basically I thought NATO is suppossed to be a defense program,not "good glorious holy god the killed some random guy let's go there and fuck shit up and cause more problems just because someone commited human rights violations!"[/QUOTE] You sure are on an Anti-NATO kick today, aren't you? You honestly can't expect the US or NATO not to react when over 2,000 innocents are killed in a single day.
[quote]according to a statement on Wednesday by NATO, which apologized for the mistake. [/quote] "lol sry for massacring your families, we r stil the gud guys we promise!1" [editline]22nd February 2013[/editline] oh wow this is a late thread
[QUOTE=GunFox;28439527]The thing can automatically swap between HE and AP belts through an [B]unusual gearbox system. [/B][/QUOTE] dual feed systems are pretty common in autocannons. Also major sympathies to the gunners as well as the families of the dead, all parties must feel horrible.
[QUOTE=trotskygrad;39682136]dual feed systems are pretty common in autocannons. Also major sympathies to the gunners as well as the families of the dead, all parties must feel horrible.[/QUOTE] You sympathies are two years late.
[quote]Published: March 2, 2011[/quote] edit: oh
[QUOTE=Madman_Andre;28399707]How the fuck did fucking helicopter gunners with high resolution gun cams manage a fuck-up this colossal?[/QUOTE] Who said they did? [editline]22nd February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Chickens!;28400778][img]http://www.homesandgardenjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/firewood.jpg[/img] Clearly an Ak47 if ever i've seen one. Do these guys even receive target recognition training?[/QUOTE] if you carry a long piece longways one piece at a time it could possible look like a weapon from far away. And they don't always carry Ak47s.
i just like how, despite everything, whenever civilians are killed it's "woops, sorry" But I bet if armed police/army did the same thing to civilians over here (killed them), they'd be tried with manslaughter at the very least. But because it's <middle eastern country>, it's okay for civilians to be killed because people are trigger happy and don't believe in proper target acquisition/recognition. It's shit like this that makes me think that if air support should only be used (other than unarmed, unmanned drones etc) when actually called in with accurate information. I understand that when your FO is being fucked from several angles and you desperately call in AS to help thin the numbers, it's great, but the amount of innocent people killed is unacceptable. It's "war," and innocents die, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't avoid it at all costs.
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;39682654]It's "war," and innocents die, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't avoid it at all costs.[/QUOTE] Even that excuse is just getting utterly tiresome. There's still no justifiable reason for causing tens of thousands of casualties just to get at the Taliban/Al Qaeda. 9/11 was a reasonable pretext to start the war but once you're at the point that 2-3x the number of non-combatant people who were killed in 9/11 have died in the war I'd say the the war has essentially lost sight of it's purpose.
And, how many unreported times do kids get raped,killed by a mine,ran over,killed by Taliban, or killed by a suicide bomber?
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;39682654]i just like how, despite everything, whenever civilians are killed it's "woops, sorry" But I bet if armed police/army did the same thing to civilians over here (killed them), they'd be tried with manslaughter at the very least. But because it's <middle eastern country>, it's okay for civilians to be killed because people are trigger happy and don't believe in proper target acquisition/recognition. It's shit like this that makes me think that if air support should only be used (other than unarmed, unmanned drones etc) when actually called in with accurate information. I understand that when your FO is being fucked from several angles and you desperately call in AS to help thin the numbers, it's great, but the amount of innocent people killed is unacceptable. It's "war," and innocents die, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't avoid it at all costs.[/QUOTE] Well for one, would you rather them not apologizing? Theres really not a whole lot more that they can do. If they didn't apologize I guarantee you lot would be going "Wow, the bastards didn't even apologize, murderers!!" Perfect definition of "Damned if they do, Damned if they don't" right here folks. [editline]23rd February 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=FLIPPY;39682837]And, how many unreported times do kids get raped,killed by a mine,ran over,killed by Taliban, or killed by a suicide bomber?[/QUOTE] Just because the Taliban kill civilians at a slightly higher or lower rate than NATO air strikes do, does not make it OK or any less tragic that civilians are being killed.
Regardless of whether it was a mistake, these cunts should at minimum be jailed for manslaughter.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;39683102]Well for one, would you rather them not apologizing? Theres really not a whole lot more that they can do. If they didn't apologize I guarantee you lot would be going "Wow, the bastards didn't even apologize, murderers!!" Perfect definition of "Damned if they do, Damned if they don't" right here folks.[/QUOTE] Not a whole lot more they can do? Saying "woops, sorry" is the bare minimum they can do. The people involved need to be sat down and have a nice little talk. If they can't correctly identify targets, and cause the death of 9 innocent kids, then there's a lot more that could be done for them on a professional level. Retraining for one. Another, the families of those killed could have, like, money or some shit. Money for the life of your kids? It's a shit trade, sure, but it's better than nothing. If people were trained better, these things would happen less. They were trigger happy, and innocent people paid for that. Additional discipline would also help prevent these kinds of fuck ups happening - they happen on a pretty regular basis. And, uh, yeah. They're damned if they apologize, and damned if they don't, because they killed 9 innocent people. There's no way not to be damned, and with good reason. Unintentional or not, that's 9 innocent lives. Apologizing won't change that.
[QUOTE=DeeCeeTeeBee;39683193]Not a whole lot more they can do? Saying "woops, sorry" is the bare minimum they can do. The people involved need to be sat down and have a nice little talk. If they can't correctly identify targets, and cause the death of 9 innocent kids, then there's a lot more that could be done for them on a professional level. Retraining for one. Another, the families of those killed could have, like, money or some shit. Money for the life of your kids? It's a shit trade, sure, but it's better than nothing. If people were trained better, these things would happen less. They were trigger happy, and innocent people paid for that. Additional discipline would also help prevent these kinds of fuck ups happening - they happen on a pretty regular basis. And, uh, yeah. They're damned if they apologize, and damned if they don't, because they killed 9 innocent people. There's no way not to be damned, and with good reason. Unintentional or not, that's 9 innocent lives. Apologizing won't change that.[/QUOTE] For one, I'd be willing to bet that the pilot and co pilot weren't let back out into the field for a while after the incident. And do you honestly think throwing money at the families would fix the issue? The reason they were operating in that area was because of the Taliban, if those families accepted money from the NATO and the Talibobs found out, they'd probably be made an example of. You're also not seeing the whole picture when it comes to these pilots and gunners, or how they operate. They operate from [i]very[/i] far away from their targets. This is done for their own safety, but because of it it doesn't let their cameras see everything it needs to. Look at this video [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TZOxlTwAvA[/media] As you can tell, it's hard to distinguish targets at times and see who's carrying what type of weapon. You can also tell they took very careful measures not to hit civilians. They were able to tell who was carrying a rifle and who was carrying a child, but as you can see it's not easy. A long stick will look exactly like a long rifle at that range with those cameras. Issues like this aren't as simple as just throwing money at it. I'm not saying what happened in this issue (which happened [i]2 years ago[/i] and I haven't heard of another once since) is justifiable, but getting mad at NATO press because they fucking apologized is silly.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;39683102]Well for one, would you rather them not apologizing? Theres really not a whole lot more that they can do. If they didn't apologize I guarantee you lot would be going "Wow, the bastards didn't even apologize, murderers!!" Perfect definition of "Damned if they do, Damned if they don't" right here folks. [editline]23rd February 2013[/editline] Just because the Taliban kill civilians at a slightly higher or lower rate than NATO air strikes do, does not make it OK or any less tragic that civilians are being killed.[/QUOTE] Ahahahaha, no buddy, its not "slightly" higher. Its a fuckton higher.
if a kid was carrying a log on his shoulder you might be able to mistake it for a RPG or some kind of rocket launcher and from the right angle it could look like a large gun, or rocket rounds
Maybe Sensationalist Headline threads should auto-lock after a year or so, so this doesn't happen
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