There will be no babies born with Downs Syndrom after 2030 in Denmark - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Rebi;31174420]I understand and the logical part of me supports this. But I don't get the people that say they would rather be aborted than have downs syndrome. Downs syndrome doesn't put you in constant, unbearable pain for your life before it kills you at 30, people with downs syndrome can still live fairly normal lives you know.[/QUOTE]No, but it leaves you with an IQ around 50, personally I would rather lose a limb or two than suffer that, when you consider the other complications like heart defects, short life expectancy and the strain I'd put on my family, that makes it about the tipping point for it to me, any condition much worse than that I'd much rather not exist.

this is atrocious, the nazi government is just trying to systematically eliminate the downs community, just like scientists are trying to do to the deaf community with their cochlear implants [editline]17th July 2011[/editline] don't let the government murder people with downs syndrome! we need to protest

Fuck yeah Denmark!

[QUOTE=SteelReal;31172085]For people saying this is terrible, it's equally as terrible having to live a life with down syndrome and if we can prevent it then that's good.[/QUOTE] No offense, but I would never want anyone to choose whether I get to live or die. Since when were we allowed to determine another person's quality of life?

If a person has a chance to prevent someone from having a disability [i]even before they are born[/i], I don't see how you can pass that chance up and look at yourself in the mirror. Because by choosing to have that child you ARE dooming him or her to have to live that way, and how the hell do you justify that? I think it would be wrong, however, for the state(ie government) to force parents to abort for any reason.

I believe this is the right thing to do. Unfortunately that is a hard choice to make, but it is the right thing in my eyes.

A fetus is not self conscient. He doesn't give a fuck if he dies or not. So the argument "Id rather live with down's than not live at all" isn't valid, if you never existed, that wouldn't bother you at all. Also, if the fetus with this birth defect were eliminated for a few generations, this birth defect would have a considerably lower changes of appearing in the future. So you can think of it as a way to save future generations.

[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;31175040]If a person has a chance to prevent someone from having a disability [i]even before they are born[/i], I don't see how you can pass that chance up and look at yourself in the mirror. Because by choosing to have that child you ARE dooming him or her to have to live that way, and how the hell do you justify that?[/QUOTE] What if that child would've ended up having a great life though, and overcame those obstacles that life put forth and had a great perspective on life overall by the time they died? Doesn't matter though because the mom said she didn't want the kid.

[QUOTE=Reimu;31175027]No offense, but I would never want anyone to choose whether I get to live or die. Since when were we allowed to determine another person's quality of life?[/QUOTE] Since the foetuses aren't really people yet and don't have a quality of life. This isn't too dissimilar from wearing a condom. It's birth control. Just very specific birth control. It stops you giving birth to a child with downs.

[QUOTE=Kade;31175116]Since the foetuses aren't really people yet and don't have a quality of life. This isn't too dissimilar from wearing a condom. It's birth control. Just very specific birth control. It stops you giving birth to a child with downs.[/QUOTE] Well that enters the discussion of "When's a person a person?" which branches off into a lot of religious, scientific, and social beliefs.

[QUOTE=Reimu;31175083]What if that child would've ended up having a great life though, and overcame those obstacles that life put forth and had a great perspective on life overall by the time they died? Doesn't matter though because the mom said she didn't want the kid.[/QUOTE]And what if the kid get bullied the whole way through school, can't get a job when he leaves and never has any real friends because people don't want to associate with him and eventually kills himself? That argument works both ways.

LOL, "border control at the cervix" ??? that paints a funny picture in my mind.

[QUOTE=Nerts;31175165]And what if the kid get bullied the whole way through school, can't get a job when he leaves and never has any real friends because people don't want to associate with him and eventually kills himself? That argument works both ways.[/QUOTE] Yes, but you just simply can't assume one way or the other. I don't believe you should be able to juggle between existence or not, because no one is an expert on life and no one is going to be able to tell what that quality is going to be - no matter WHAT disease or illness.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31173043]I'd rather have a life with downs than none at all.[/QUOTE] This argument is so horrible. If you were aborted as a fetus, you'd be incapable of caring or feeling, so it wouldn't matter.

[QUOTE=Robber;31172281]I don't get how this is controversial. No parent wants to have a child with downs syndrome and nobody wants to have downs syndrome himself. It would also be great to be able to check for other things like diabetes. It doesn't hurt anyone. It's horrible being born with a defect and being unable to do anything about it. It would be great if we could at some point reach perfect genetic selection like in GATTACA. That would also counter the problem of us disabling natural selection and therefore deteriorating the human gene pool.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't get the "This is bad" argument... its stupid, backwards and destructive. We don't want children to suffer from terrible, horrible illnesses like this, ever. [QUOTE=sltungle;31172081]So long as the foetus isn't self aware I'm fine with it. I draw the line with anything to do with removing a life when it becomes self aware. That said I don't condone removing all plant life from Earth simply because it's not sentient.[/QUOTE] What the fuck? Human babies aren't self aware until about 3-6. [QUOTE=carcarcargo;31172646]If you can't deal with difficulties you shouldn't have a child.[/QUOTE] if you would let a life live with this, you shouldn't have a child.

[QUOTE=Atlascore;31175205]And what Nerts said is most likely what would happen. The real world isn't all sunshine and rainbows.[/QUOTE] I go to school with children with Downs syndrome, one of my friends suffers from Downs, and my brother's boss has a child who suffers from Downs. Are they most likely going to be commit suicide when they're older, even though they have a lot of friends, feel very comfortable in their environments, and are receiving the proper care they need? In the end it all depends on what environment the person grows up in, and proper medical care (which includes mental health). We should focus as a society on improving our environment our people live in, which is tied to a lot of aspects besides the quality of life for someone suffering from Downs.

[QUOTE=Reimu;31175204]Yes, but you just simply can't assume one way or the other. I don't believe you should be able to juggle between existence or not, because no one is an expert on life and no one is going to be able to tell what that quality is going to be - no matter WHAT disease or illness.[/QUOTE]I disagree, I hold intelligence and knowledge in high regard, being mentally retarded leaves someone unable or make it incredibly difficult to do an awful lot of the things that I think make life worth living.

[QUOTE=Nerts;31175275]I disagree, I hold intelligence and knowledge in high regard, being mentally retarded leaves someone unable or make it incredibly difficult to do an awful lot of the things that I think make life worth living.[/QUOTE] But that's just your perspective. As important as it is to you, someone with Downs may have a completely opposite view on life. I don't share that same view on life. I think community, personal relationships, self-respect, and personal achievement are key to life.

[QUOTE=HeadshotDCS;31174677]Would you want to live with downs? Or better yet - Would you rather raise a child with downs, or not raise one at all? Riddle me that.[/QUOTE] I don't want to raise a child fullstop so there's no point in asking me that question [editline]17th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;31175233] if you would let a life live with this, you shouldn't have a child.[/QUOTE] There are plenty of people with Downs who live happily.

[QUOTE=CSOD;31173025]Eugenics? This isn't eugenics it's mercy. People who bring children into this world knowing full well they will be disabled are self-righteous scumbags. There is nothing heroic or brave about damning a child to a short and difficult life.[/QUOTE] It's even worse when the parents keep popping out one kid after another who have downs. You'd think that after the second kid that they'd get the hint.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31175300]I don't want to raise a child fullstop so there's no point in asking me that question [editline]17th July 2011[/editline] There are plenty of people with Downs who live happily.[/QUOTE] Does that mean its any better? No.

[QUOTE=J!NX;31175375]Does that mean its any better? No.[/QUOTE] Well it means that their lives are still worth living.

[QUOTE=Fatal-Error;31173754]It's not ethical to remove a relatively crippling disability before someone is even born, what, do you think they want to be inferior?[/QUOTE] i meant that as in - what if the procedure goes wrong and downs syndrome 2 is created

You think you miss the 90's? Wait until you start wishing you lived in a simpler time before selected genetics and augmented intelligence.

On the other side, it makes it rarer to see people with downs, then won't it make them even more discriminated?

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;31175414]On the other side, it makes it rarer to see people with downs, then won't it make them even more discriminated?[/QUOTE] That also means there will be less quality of care for people suffering from Downs syndrome, because there would be no Business or Governmental benefit in that industry.

People will argue about this forever, but honestly I would rather not have a child at all than have one with some serious disability that is going to result in them having a shittier life, aswell as degrading the quality of my own. It must be horrible having to look after a disabled child all the time. I can see people being against it, because the disabled person still has a right to live and everything. But, is it worth giving them a lesser standard of life aswell as potentially ruining their family's lives when it can be prevented before they even know what is going on?

[QUOTE=Reimu;31175292]But that's just your perspective. As important as it is to you, someone with Downs may have a completely opposite view on life. I don't share that same view on life. I think community, personal relationships, self-respect, and personal achievement are key to life.[/QUOTE]So basicly it's down to [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5636656/yeah%20well%20thats%20just%20like%20your%20opinion%20man.gif[/img], which is why I think it should be an option for parents, someone might think their kid being born a cripple would be too horrible to bare, others might think that's the lighter end of severe disabilities, could be vice versa for other problems. At the end of the day though, it's their kid and their choice.

[QUOTE=ChaosUnleash;31175487]People will argue about this forever, but honestly I would rather not have a child at all than have one with some serious disability that is going to result in them having a shittier life, aswell as degrading the quality of my own. It must be horrible having to look after a disabled child all the time. I can see people being against it, because the disabled person still has a right to live and everything. But, is it worth giving them a lesser standard of life aswell as potentially ruining their family's lives when it can be prevented before they even know what is going on?[/QUOTE] It's a bit of a moral grey area to be honest.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;31175403]Well it means that their lives are still worth living.[/QUOTE] And what if we could genetically modify a baby so that downs never would be a part of their life? He'd be exactly like any other non-disabled child, nothing more or less. Then again, thats obvious.