There will be no babies born with Downs Syndrom after 2030 in Denmark - Polidicks

I would've never had a chance to live outside of the womb. It doesn't matter if I would've never been conscious, you're killing the potential to live. Also consciousness =/= life, note bacteria.

"Killing the potential to live" is a shitty argument, because by simply choosing not to have sex in order to conceive a baby, you are in fact killing the potential to live. Consciousness matters. It's what makes it moral to kill 1,000,000,000 bacteria with a single spray of Germ-X: the lack of consciousness.

[QUOTE=SnowCanary;31183886]I would've never had a chance to live outside of the womb. It doesn't matter if I would've never been conscious, you're killing the potential to live. Also consciousness =/= life, note bacteria.[/QUOTE] Abortion is killing the potential to live as much as using birth control is killing the potential to live. Just like bacteria, a fetus isn't sentient or self aware, to the fetus aborting it is the same as it never existing in the first place.

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;31183897]"Killing the potential to live" is a shitty argument, because by simply choosing not to have sex in order to conceive a baby, you are in fact killing the potential to live.[/QUOTE] The difference is most people can agree a child doesn't exist prior to conception, but there's a huge argument as to where life begins once the egg is fertilized. And that argument is based on a lot of different ideas - religious, scientific, social, etc.

Yes, but you're killing a human life undergoing development. It's better to put the kid up for adoption so he'd have a shot at life than killing him. You can't say he should die because he might have a bad life, every life is full of good and bad.

[QUOTE=SnowCanary;31184015]Yes, but you're killing a human life undergoing development. It's better to put the kid up for adoption so he'd have a shot at life than killing him. You can't say he should die because he might have a bad life, every life is full of good and bad.[/QUOTE] So you think that casting off your own child because he is born with a defect is better than aborting it before it's even aware of its own existence?

[QUOTE=Killuah;31172315]I especially hate people who have a birth defect and give interviews like "If this existed 40 years ago I wouldn't exist". Yes you would motherfucker. You just wouldn't have a horrible birth defect. Why are you dooming future generations to endure the same things you went through when we clearly have the technology to prevent that by your stupid self-important pseudo-moral claims?[/QUOTE] Well it really wouldn't be them though. *thatsdeepman.png*

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;31184051]So you think that casting off your own child because he is born with a defect is better than aborting it before it's even aware of its own existence?[/QUOTE] Placing a baby in better care because it has a defect seems like a better option than killing it. I'm not a big fan of bieng or living with retarded kids, but that doesn't mean that he deserves to die. If adoption is a way of letting the kid live, so be it.

[QUOTE=SnowCanary;31184134]Placing a baby in better care because it has a defect seems like a better option than killing it. I'm not a big fan of bieng or living with retarded kids, but that doesn't mean that he deserves to die. If adoption is a way of letting the kid live, so be it.[/QUOTE] By aborting a fetus the child never would have existed in the first place, terminating a clump of cells is hardly comparable to killing a child.

-snipped-

It's on the X chromosome. It's X-linked dominant. He has only one X chromosome. If he has a son, he does NOT give the son the X chromosome. The son will NOT have it. If he has a daughter, he DOES give her the X chromosome. It is dominant, so she will have it, and she will express it. Jeesh and you talk about failing biology class

[QUOTE=Elecbullet;31184408]It's on the X chromosome. It's X-linked dominant. [/QUOTE] oops nevermind then

Elecbullet beat me to it.

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;31184446]No, I would have a 50% chance of having a child with the disease. I inherited it from my mom who in turn inherited it from her dad. It's present on the X chromosome. If I have a daughter she would have one X from my, one from my Mate no matter what my daughter would have the disease. If I had a son, I would contribute the Y chromosome, my mate the X, as long as she doesn't have the disease our son would not inherit it.[/QUOTE] nah dude i fucked up

[QUOTE=hehe;31183493]What I'm most worried about is how far this could possibly go, I'm worried it could get to a stage where parents go "Oh, this child is going to have brown eyes, gross!, better abort it and try again until we get one with blue eyes"[/QUOTE] abortion is an incredibly painful and invasive procedure this is not going to happen

[QUOTE=Lazor;31184685]abortion is an incredibly painful and invasive procedure this is not going to happen[/QUOTE] Obviously my example was sensationalized, my worry is that it's going to get to a point where the scope of eugenics broadens to diseases which aren't that serious. [editline]18th July 2011[/editline] Not that serious, as in the disease doesn't majorly affect somebodies day to day life.

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;31183177]I'd hope mine is a bit more interesting than inanimate objects feeling pain, I have a mild form of Epidermolysis Bullosa. When sheared off my top layer of skin won't regenerate causing even minor scrapes to leave my second layer of skin exposed, inflamed, and prone to blistering. It could always have it worse, but it's definitely not something I want my child to have.[/QUOTE] The joke-----------> Your Head----> I was talking about how they would point at their feet (Wearing only socks) when their feet hurt, and referring to their feet as "shoes".

[QUOTE=Zeke129;31180599]Forcing someone to live with a devastating disorder is much more cruel than just getting an abortion of course, so I'm okay with this If I knew that my kid was going to live a bad life I wouldn't make them live it I just can't help but wonder how far it will end up going[/QUOTE] Do you really think everyone with Down's Syndrome hates their life and would rather be dead? Answer: no.

Can't these people just resort to genetic engineering if they don't want a down baby? But I for one would love my future child, even if they have down syndrome or any other defect.

[QUOTE=certified;31185447]The joke-----------> Your Head----> [/QUOTE] I wasn't being serious at all. In fact if inanimate objects could feel pain, that'd be fucking incredible.

[QUOTE=SteelReal;31172085]For people saying this is terrible, it's equally as terrible having to live a life with down syndrome and if we can prevent it then that's good.[/QUOTE] you poor thing

[QUOTE=Zeke129;31180599]Forcing someone to live with a devastating disorder is much more cruel than just getting an abortion of course, so I'm okay with this If I knew that my kid was going to live a bad life I wouldn't make them live it I just can't help but wonder how far it will end up going[/QUOTE] see the thing is that i've never met a downs syndrome person that seems as though he has a devastating disorder i knew two autistic children and both of them were the happiest kids I've ever met because they got to spend their whole day drawing and playing on a playground and having a good life being autistic is like having bad vision in a way, I doubt the kids ever look at themselves in the mirror and think "I could be smarter than this" like a person with bad vision would never understand how a crisper 20/20 vision would feel in a first world country like denmark these down syndrome kids would probably live great lives

[QUOTE=TBFundy;31186365]see the thing is that i've never met a downs syndrome person that seems as though he has a devastating disorder i knew two autistic children and both of them were the happiest kids I've ever met because they got to spend their whole day drawing and playing on a playground and having a good life being autistic is like having bad vision in a way, I doubt the kids ever look at themselves in the mirror and think "I could be smarter than this" like a person with bad vision would never understand how a crisper 20/20 vision would feel in a first world country like denmark these down syndrome kids would probably live great lives[/QUOTE] That is a bad example, you can get contacts/glasses or get laser surgery to remove your bad vision. You can't with Downs syndrome. We have some friends of the family who's eldest son got a daughter with downs syndrome. But that was because it was discovered too late and it hurt them alot that they would have a baby with downs. They have her now and they love her, but I have no doubt in my mind that personally they would much rather have had the other option of not having her.

[QUOTE=Beafman;31187450] they would much rather have had the other option of not having her.[/QUOTE] i seriously doubt this if they are legitimately good parents

[QUOTE=TBFundy;31186365]see the thing is that i've never met a downs syndrome person that seems as though he has a devastating disorder[/QUOTE] Let me put it into perspective. They are mentally retarded. They are happy regardless. They have the mind of a child, and if you are in their company and play around with them, they will be happy. But will they truly understand? To truly understand it is what makes a person a full person. Am I saying people with downs are less? No. But I am saying they will never, ever, EVER be able to enjoy what it means to truly understand something. They just exist. Granted, there are different levels of downs. Some much worse than others and I did make a blanket statement. I'm know of a people with mild forms of downs that lead fulfilling lives, but that is the far end of the spectrum. Still though, they need constant medical care to deal with their physical disbilities along with their mental disabilities. They do not get to enjoy a normal life. Living your life as a baby/near-child for 30 years? Does that sound like a fulfilling life worth living after having experienced a normal life to you? Once again, I'm asking the fucking question. Would you be willing to raise a child with downs or not have one? Keep in mind going into debt by 7 digits, and having to use federal insurance coverage as no insurance company is going to take a child with a condition like that. Now say you can't take gov handouts because you don't qualify. What then? What the fuck then.

This is not bad in any way, if you think abortion is okay then why not this? If a parent does not want to deal with the resource drain that a mentally handicapped kid is then good! It's a resource drain on everyone, and it's not fun to be born like that either. Sure maybe it'd be bad if they forced abortions of people like this, but I don't know if it would really matter [editline]18th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Lazor;31184685]abortion is an incredibly painful and invasive procedure this is not going to happen[/QUOTE] There are abortion pills though and I'd imagine that's not so painful, but what do I know

[QUOTE=HeadshotDCS;31187528]Let me put it into perspective. They are mentally retarded. They are happy regardless. They have the mind of a child, and if you are in their company and play around with them, they will be happy. But will they truly understand? To truly understand it is what makes a person a full person. Am I saying people with downs are less? No. But I am saying they will never, ever, EVER be able to enjoy what it means to truly understand something. They just exist. Granted, there are different levels of downs. Some much worse than others and I did make a blanket statement. I'm know of a people with mild forms of downs that lead fulfilling lives, but that is the far end of the spectrum. Still though, they need constant medical care to deal with their physical disbilities along with their mental disabilities. They do not get to enjoy a normal life. Living your life as a baby/near-child for 30 years? Does that sound like a fulfilling life worth living after having experienced a normal life to you? Once again, I'm asking the fucking question. Would you be willing to raise a child with downs or not have one? Keep in mind going into debt by 7 digits, and having to use federal insurance coverage as no insurance company is going to take a child with a condition like that. Now say you can't take gov handouts because you don't qualify. What then? What the fuck then.[/QUOTE] How can you say that they're not happy - because it's not your standard of happiness? Just because they're not "normal", whatever the hell that even means, doesn't mean that somehow they'll never be truly happy. If I was suddenly put in that position, I wouldn't be happy, sure - [i]but that's not how happiness works.[/i] There is no objective standard of happiness, at least not one that barrs people with a disability from achieving it. You say it's "not fun to be born like that", Tetracycline - but how can you possibly know?

People with Downs aren't always happy. They, just like us, have a range of emotions.

[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;31188594]How can you say that they're not happy - because it's not your standard of happiness? Just because they're not "normal", whatever the hell that even means, doesn't mean that somehow they'll never be truly happy. If I was suddenly put in that position, I wouldn't be happy, sure - [i]but that's not how happiness works.[/i] There is no objective standard of happiness, at least not one that barrs people with a disability from achieving it. You say it's "not fun to be born like that", Tetracycline - but how can you possibly know?[/QUOTE] It's not all that great to be mentally retarded, I'd imagine

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;31188701]It's not all that great to be mentally retarded, I'd imagine[/QUOTE] But that's only because you've experienced a non-intellectually-disabled life, and you'd feel a sense of loss. Birth-given intellectual-disabilities don't work like that.