• Showdown as anti-Putin protesters and police hit Russia's streets
    54 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Stopper;52353626]With the government owning the media, it's not a surprise. Doesn't mean they don't need to happen. That's why Navalny is on Youtube - no TV or newspaper wanted to have him.[/QUOTE] Only 65% of adult population have access to the Internet. That's telling.
[QUOTE=antianan;52352663]It's not about dictators, it's about causing problems to regular people that don't care about the protest. They could have done this anywhere in the center, with a crowd that big they would have inevitably drawn attention to their event regardless of the place. I understand this would have still caused a lot of inconvenience, and, as the guy above said, that's the point of any protest, but ruining the reconstruction just for the sake of it is a bit over the top I think.[/QUOTE] Who cares about reconstruction and all the other bullshit, [i]people are being denied their rights, beaten and detained[/i].
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52346949]I know you don't mean anything bad but it's not just because of cultural appreciation that countries such as Russia like to glorify their military (history) so much. I think we can do without military parades and such.[/QUOTE] Actually, he probably does mean something bad.
[QUOTE=gudman;52355611]Who cares about reconstruction and all the other bullshit, [i]people are being denied their rights, beaten and detained[/i].[/QUOTE] Considering that protestors decided to change the place on their own (after they agreed on the first place, and changed it literally in the last second), and decided to crash the celebration, they could be considered a hazard to the common public. Which now hates the opposition even more for that. Nice job, Navalny, dunno what you wanted to do, but you fucked up. Imagine BLM arriving at New York Central Park at 4th of July and protest in here, disrupting the Day of Independence. Most people would not take too kindly to that too.
[QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;52359897]Considering that protestors decided to change the place on their own (after they agreed on the first place, and changed it literally in the last second), and decided to crash the celebration, they could be considered a hazard to the common public. Which now hates the opposition even more for that. Nice job, Navalny, dunno what you wanted to do, but you fucked up. Imagine BLM arriving at New York Central Park at 4th of July and protest in here, disrupting the Day of Independence. Most people would not take too kindly to that too.[/QUOTE] You know what, if the US was in a similar state as Russia I would doubtfully bat my eye at such an event. Heck, the US is so far gone that I question what you say as not meaning what you think it should imply.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52359906]You know what, if the US was in a similar state as Russia I would doubtfully bat my eye at such an event. Heck, the US is so far gone that I question what you say as not meaning what you think it should imply.[/QUOTE] Well, there is an interesting read that about sums it up how I feel about this and Navalny himself [url]http://www.unz.com/akarlin/signifying-navalny/[/url] And I want to note, I am not a fan of our government in general, as I had a lot of troubles just confirming my disability status, yet alone getting all the benefits I am obliged to. And I like some of opposition members, like Varlamov, because they DO something, not just making funny videos, stupid tweets and rallying people on meetings.
[QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;52359897]Considering that protestors decided to change the place on their own (after they agreed on the first place, and changed it literally in the last second), and decided to crash the celebration, they could be considered a hazard to the common public. Which now hates the opposition even more for that. Nice job, Navalny, dunno what you wanted to do, but you fucked up. Imagine BLM arriving at New York Central Park at 4th of July and protest in here, disrupting the Day of Independence. Most people would not take too kindly to that too.[/QUOTE] Anyone who puts the blame on opposition is an idiot and their opinion is invalid. Sure, hate the peaceful and calm protesters, not the, you know, armoured human-shaped vegetables with batons fucking shit up for no reason other than that their masters don't like it when people speak up with no government approval.
Alexei Navalny will never be president by democratic means. The only way Putin is leaving office is the through the same door that Viktor Yanukovych took
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52361314]Alexei Navalny will never be president by democratic means. The only way Putin is leaving office is the through the same door that Viktor Yanukovych took[/QUOTE] the other alternative is if Putin drank himself to death like Yseltin, but I don't see that happening
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52361314]Alexei Navalny will never be president by democratic means. The only way Putin is leaving office is the through the same door that Viktor Yanukovych took[/QUOTE] And thank god for that. Anyone would be better than him at being president.
[QUOTE=gudman;52360611]Anyone who puts the blame on opposition is an idiot and their opinion is invalid. Sure, hate the peaceful and calm protesters, not the, you know, armoured human-shaped vegetables with batons fucking shit up for no reason other than that their masters don't like it when people speak up with no government approval.[/QUOTE] It's insane that you honestly believe these protests and the whole movement behind Navalny did, does, or will do anything other than useless provocations. Navalny is idiotic, he has absolutely no idea what he talks about other than "HURR!!!! CORRUPTION!". Russia is in a dire need of change, but Navalny offers absolutely nothing to the table. He is just there for public outcry and PR on his persona, nothing more.
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52362309]It's insane that you honestly believe these protests and the whole movement behind Navalny did, does, or will do anything other than useless provocations. Navalny is idiotic, he has absolutely no idea what he talks about other than "HURR!!!! CORRUPTION!". Russia is in a dire need of change, but Navalny offers absolutely nothing to the table. He is just there for public outcry and PR on his persona, nothing more.[/QUOTE] True. Navalny merely impersonates opposition and if anything he feels most comfortable in "ongoing" fight rather than reaching some real drastical changes. he benefits from cycle of public actions that get attention and causes an outcry but he's hardly capable of forming a working goverment replacement batch. And to all suggesting same aproach as it happened in Ukraine - hell no. Nationalistic bent goverment living in debt of western support with regressive aproach toward armed militia and army handling in general is far worse than one centralised corruption ball. Only way to change things in russia is to raise next generation with deep understanding of [B]both[/B] national agenda and long term goals for country and humanity. Maybe then, with almost genetically imprinted rejection of greed we will have somebody to rid of clericism and burecratic nightmare. There is no salvation for us right now, all we can do is try to not fuck it up any worse by doing some fake revolution that will install another pack of spoiled wolves in charge of beaten down country.
Can't believe I've missed this! Seems like you occasionally hear about sporadic anti-government protests in Russia. How frequent are they, and have they gained/lost traction over the years?
[QUOTE=Kazumi;52362463]Can't believe I've missed this! Seems like you occasionally hear about sporadic anti-government protests in Russia. How frequent are they, and have they gained/lost traction over the years?[/QUOTE] Once per two-three months\ yup, absolutelly lost traction over years.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52362379]True. Navalny merely impersonates opposition and if anything he feels most comfortable in "ongoing" fight rather than reaching some real drastical changes. he benefits from cycle of public actions that get attention and causes an outcry but he's hardly capable of forming a working goverment replacement batch. And to all suggesting same aproach as it happened in Ukraine - hell no. Nationalistic bent goverment living in debt of western support with regressive aproach toward armed militia and army handling in general is far worse than one centralised corruption ball. Only way to change things in russia is to raise next generation with deep understanding of [B]both[/B] national agenda and long term goals for country and humanity. Maybe then, with almost genetically imprinted rejection of greed we will have somebody to rid of clericism and burecratic nightmare. There is no salvation for us right now, all we can do is try to not fuck it up any worse by doing some fake revolution that will install another pack of spoiled wolves in charge of beaten down country.[/QUOTE] I'm thinking mostly from the west's viewpoint. Yes, a crippled Russia would be bad for Russia[B]ns[/B], but I honestly believe that Vladimir Putin is the most dangerous man in the world and the world would be better overnight if someone just shot him.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52362089]the other alternative is if Putin drank himself to death like Yseltin, but I don't see that happening[/QUOTE] Yeltsin actually left by himself, and died much later.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52362567]I'm thinking mostly from the west's viewpoint. Yes, a crippled Russia would be bad for Russia[B]ns[/B], but I honestly believe that Vladimir Putin is the most dangerous man in the world and the world would be better overnight if someone just shot him.[/QUOTE] It's sad cause it means you attibute all ongoing havok to singular person due to his portrain in media wich indicates your own exposure to propaganda of scapegoat personality used to cover up fuckton of other responsible people. Don't do that. Goverment is always about one man's power projection overshadowing crowd that benefits from him representing their agenda. Replace these gray cardinals and course will instantly change.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52362673]It's sad cause it means you attibute all ongoing havok to singular person due to his portrain in media wich indicates your own exposure to propaganda of scapegoat personality used to cover up fuckton of other responsible people.[/QUOTE] That's a big assumption. No, I've done a lot of reading about the subject. It used to be a handful of powerful oligarchs controlled Russia, but Putin has reorganized the system so that being powerful is synonymous with paying tribute to the czar. Putin really has put himself dead center of all things in Russian politics. Those old oligarchs are either dead, in jail, or have come over to Putin's side. Yes, corruption exists in Russia without Putin, but the Predatory foreign policy is all Putin/Rosnet/Gazprom
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52362681]That's a big assumption. No, I've done a lot of reading about the subject. It used to be a handful of powerful oligarchs controlled Russia, but Putin has reorganized the system so that being powerful is synonymous with paying tribute to the czar. Putin really has put himself dead center of all things in Russian politics. Those old oligarchs are either dead, in jail, or have come over to Putin's side. Yes, corruption exists in Russia without Putin, but the Predatory foreign policy is all Putin/Rosnet/Gazprom[/QUOTE] Um, In very last sentance you placed surname of one person and two corporation brands... soo maybe ithere is more to it than just putin?
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52362683]Um, In very last sentance you placed surname of one person and two corporation brands... soo maybe ithere is more to it than just putin?[/QUOTE] Putin is, of course, directly connected to one corporation brand (his former PM, Zubkov, is the head of Gazprom, along with Alexey Miller, who goes WAY back to the 90s with Putin) and of course Rosneft is [I]owned[/I] by the Russian government, and run by Igor Sechin, aka Putin's #2 Putin has spun a web with himself in the middle, and he will kill anyone who gets caught in it
[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52362309]It's insane that you honestly believe these protests and the whole movement behind Navalny did, does, or will do anything other than useless provocations. Navalny is idiotic, he has absolutely no idea what he talks about other than "HURR!!!! CORRUPTION!". Russia is in a dire need of change, but Navalny offers absolutely nothing to the table. He is just there for public outcry and PR on his persona, nothing more.[/QUOTE] No, it's insane that after I answer your really stupid assertion (everybody hated the protesters hurr durr) you instantly attack Navalny and his movement and assume I give a fuck about him. [QUOTE=karimatrix;52362379] Only way to change things in russia is to raise next generation with deep understanding of [B]both[/B] national agenda and long term goals for country and humanity. Maybe then, with almost genetically imprinted rejection of greed we will have somebody to rid of clericism and burecratic nightmare. There is no salvation for us right now, all we can do is try to not fuck it up any worse by doing some fake revolution that will install another pack of spoiled wolves in charge of beaten down country.[/QUOTE] Because there will be next generation with deep understanding of whatever the fuck under Putin and whoever inevitably replaces him in the future, suuuuuure. Let's all just give up and let these criminals scrape the bottom of the barrel for all that's left. Industry down the shitter, economy down the shitter, social services, medicine, everything down the shitter. Because apparently, Soviet Union's collapse and the following years weren't bad enough, we need to become South Sudan with nukes. All because there's no Jesus anywhere in sight for us all to rally behind and be granted salvation. Because there's a chance of something bad happening, like in Ukraine. Let's just forget that Ukrainian scenario is [i]very[/i] unlikely simply because we have no, you know, fucking Russia next to us? And we have nukes, so no one's going to grab our land (like we did), meddle in our affairs and send armed mob and military to roam around declaring 'independence' all over the place (like we do). Nah, let's just sit on our thumbs, we did it for 17 years after all, we only have to wait some more for the next generation. And the Jesus among them.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52362379]Only way to change things in russia is to raise next generation with deep understanding of [B]both[/B] national agenda and long term goals for country and humanity. Maybe then, with almost genetically imprinted rejection of greed we will have somebody to rid of clericism and burecratic nightmare. There is no salvation for us right now, all we can do is try to not fuck it up any worse by doing some fake revolution that will install another pack of spoiled wolves in charge of beaten down country.[/QUOTE] In Spain my parents and basically all of their generation did their best to do this, but now by the time we are adults we still without being able to change the country and we have no choice but to emigrate. As gudman said, one must act in their timeline to change something, you can't wait for the next generation and hope they will save your homeland. But nobody knows the best way to do it, that's the problem both we face.
[QUOTE=gudman;52363698]No, it's insane that after I answer your really stupid assertion (everybody hated the protesters hurr durr) you instantly attack Navalny and his movement and assume I give a fuck about him. Because there will be next generation with deep understanding of whatever the fuck under Putin and whoever inevitably replaces him in the future, suuuuuure. Let's all just give up and let these criminals scrape the bottom of the barrel for all that's left. Industry down the shitter, economy down the shitter, social services, medicine, everything down the shitter. Because apparently, Soviet Union's collapse and the following years weren't bad enough, we need to become South Sudan with nukes. All because there's no Jesus anywhere in sight for us all to rally behind and be granted salvation. Because there's a chance of something bad happening, like in Ukraine. Let's just forget that Ukrainian scenario is [i]very[/i] unlikely simply because we have no, you know, fucking Russia next to us? And we have nukes, so no one's going to grab our land (like we did), meddle in our affairs and send armed mob and military to roam around declaring 'independence' all over the place (like we do). Nah, let's just sit on our thumbs, we did it for 17 years after all, we only have to wait some more for the next generation. And the Jesus among them.[/QUOTE] It's not about waiting. Oh, ya soo fed up with bad stuff then what you gonna do about? Do you have a solid idea of "fixing" that does not involve foreign involvment? Or mass violence? or endangering the ones you care about? Or succumbin to greed on your own? Romantisation of "fighting NOW, for freedom!" is a poster nonsence since when you start really counting the capapble, turn outs nobody is willing or is fitting to take risk and responsibility, or what is worse, ends up twisting ideals of others for his own personal power grab. Soo yeah, i am not for "waiting", i am just out of option among currently living since as you mentioned, for 17 years nobody, including you and me, has done anything significant to change.
[QUOTE=karimatrix;52364038]It's not about waiting. Oh, ya soo fed up with bad stuff then what you gonna do about? Do you have a solid idea of "fixing" that does not involve foreign involvment? Or mass violence? or endangering the ones you care about? Or succumbin to greed on your own? Romantisation of "fighting NOW, for freedom!" is a poster nonsence since when you start really counting the capapble, turn outs nobody is willing or is fitting to take risk and responsibility, or what is worse, ends up twisting ideals of others for his own personal power grab. Soo yeah, i am not for "waiting", i am just out of option among currently living since as you mentioned, for 17 years nobody, including you and me, has done anything significant to change.[/QUOTE] Anyone who's willing to take the risk and responsibility gets branded as "twisting ideals of others for their own personal gain". This happened in 2011-2012, this is happening now, and in the end nothing gets done because "[i]think rationally![/i]" Dude, if you're saying exactly the same kind of shit that our TV is saying, you've got to stop and think that most likely it's all wrong. The absolute least anyone can do is participate in protests and spread awareness, this can be done by literally anyone. You offer to sit there and [b]wait[/b] (and that's exactly what you're saying, don't deny it, it's blatant) for some messiah who is [i]fitting[/i] to take the risk and responsibility (according to who, you?), but with no violence or endangering anyone because there's some other way, probably, still left. If you're so interested, no, I don't see any other way than through mass violence, at least on the scale of events in Ukraine.
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