Lib Dems win Eastleigh by-election as UKIP come second - Polidicks

[QUOTE=butt2089;39760888]The strangest thing about UKIP is that it doesn't just appeal to conservatives, it has drawn voters from all three major parties. [/QUOTE] 9/10 users have said that UKIP has helped then last longer in bed [quote]Though UKIP draws some support from the left and boasts a hard core of voters furious at all big parties,[B] recent gains have come disproportionately from Tory ranks[/B]. UKIP's current policy platform is a land grab of terrain ceded by Tory modernisers. It includes a five-year freeze on permanent immigration, increased military spending, a return to selective grammar schools, calling global warming “not proven” and ending smoking bans in pubs[/quote] [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2012/06/united-kingdom-independence-party[/url]

UKIP want to strengthen the nation with ethnic i mean cultural unity what could go wrong

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39760925]9/10 users have said that UKIP has helped then last longer in bed [url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2012/06/united-kingdom-independence-party[/url][/QUOTE] That confirms my point..

[QUOTE=butt2089;39760955]That confirms my point..[/QUOTE] No. That the argument that UKIP has support from all the sectors of British politics is just a myth and the reality is that they're just staffed full of old conservatives that find the Tories no longer right wing enough. They're a far right party, get over it.

[QUOTE=Cushie;39760056]People always seem to bring this up in threads but I have never understood it...? I'm open and on the fence even after 3 years of trying to make sense of the rubbish that is UK politics, I have read through the UKIP site and manifesto and I don't understand why they are considered racist, and I thought some of their ideas sounded reasonable? I have also tried a lot to research leaving the EU vs staying but there really is no definitive answer, all I can find is endless arguments and counter arguments so its hard to know what to believe. If someone could explain to me how UKIP is racist/homophobic and why leaving the EU would be a terrible terrible thing to do, either here or via PM, I would really appreciate it, because I havent been able to find anything to support the claims (More so the former) I talked about it with a friend recently and decided that the next time UKIP is brought up in a Facepunch thread I would try to get more informed on why people seem to hate them so much.[/QUOTE] The Labour, Lib Dem and Tory parties are just mad that they might lose their grip on England.

[QUOTE=NoDachi;39760977]No. That the argument that UKIP has support from all the sectors of British politics is just a myth and the reality is that they're just staffed full of old conservatives that find the Tories no longer right wing enough. They're a far right party, get over it.[/QUOTE] It's in the part you quoted: [quote]Though UKIP draws some support from the left and boasts a hard core of voters furious at all big parties[/quote] Look at the results in Eastleigh and Rotherham, the Lib dems have lost a lot of support and it has mostly gone to UKIP with only up to 1% going to Labour.

[QUOTE=butt2089;39760608] Crowd-pleasing policies? Right, because the purpose of political parties in a democracy is to do stuff that the people don't want..[/QUOTE] No, the purpose of political parties in a democracy is to present the people with different policies and a coherent plan to solve national issues and enhance the country, UKIP's policies are just a mishmash of stuff that gets them votes. Even George Galloway has more integrity. [editline]1st March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=butt2089;39760653]Are you saying that we should ignore their views as irrelevant because they don't have a 'huge knowledge of politics'? I think that would apply to most of the electorate. Also, what is a 'daily mail' viewpoint?[/QUOTE] I think that people who don't follow politics very often are very likely to vote for UKIP, because on the surface they have a lot of policies that people agree with (essentially, if there's been enough damning press coverage of something recently UKIP's probably going to adopt a policy abolishing it). A 'daily mail' viewpoint is a right wing viewpoint becoming more disillusioned with the tory party and wishing that immigrants, homos and other groups they don't know much about would just go away. Basically someone who reads stories in the daily mail about binning curved bananas or something due to EU policy (a story the daily mail made up) then uses it to colour their opinion on EU policy. [editline]1st March 2013[/editline] Thankfully they're stealing votes from the tories which just means in a first past the post system that the tories and UKIP will end up with no power, which is just how it should be.

I've started to have an interest in politics and I have been reading up about all the recent hub-bub and I just find it really confusing. I don't want to be that type of person who doesn't want to spoil a vote, yet none of the parties seem to have anything that raises an eyelid for me. I see a lot of positive and negative opinion of UKIP and other parties and it makes me feel that I shouldn't trust anyone. Can anyone help me out? :tinfoil:

Just a quick guide to everyone: the UKIP = reactionary party; radically right on economics and social policies. the BNP = fascistic party; radically left on economics and radically right on social policies. [QUOTE=butt2089;39760888]Except the BNP never got a string of high by-election results like UKIP has. The strangest thing about UKIP is that it doesn't just appeal to conservatives, it has drawn voters from all three major parties.[/QUOTE] Someone didn't do their homework. The BNP's policies (with some PR polishing) would appeal more to non-Rightists more than the UKIP will be. No Leftist would vote for a socially conservative and economically Libertarian party. While frustrated Labour voters are likely to go BNP with their nationalisation, economic protectionism, and other economic socialist tendencies.

[QUOTE=Mrglitch2000;39761178]I've started to have an interest in politics and I have been reading up about all the recent hub-bub and I just find it really confusing. I don't want to be that type of person who doesn't want to spoil a vote, yet none of the parties seem to have anything that raises an eyelid for me. I see a lot of positive and negative opinion of UKIP and other parties and it makes me feel that I shouldn't trust anyone. Can anyone help me out? :tinfoil:[/QUOTE] Read what the party members say and claim, and form your own opinion as to who you want to trust. Really, in politics, you can't let anyone else tell you to vote for X because Y, because it might be bullshit.

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39761098]Thankfully they're stealing votes from the tories which just means in a first past the post system that the tories and UKIP will end up with no power, which is just how it should be.[/QUOTE] Which is why Labour and Lib-Dem aren't doing anything about the UKIP.

[QUOTE=Mrglitch2000;39761178]I've started to have an interest in politics and I have been reading up about all the recent hub-bub and I just find it really confusing. I don't want to be that type of person who doesn't want to spoil a vote, yet none of the parties seem to have anything that raises an eyelid for me. I see a lot of positive and negative opinion of UKIP and other parties and it makes me feel that I shouldn't trust anyone. Can anyone help me out? :tinfoil:[/QUOTE] Don't trust anyone. Remain skeptical of what the parties say, read up on their policies and see what you agree with.

My girlfriend is from Eastleigh, it's very nice over there.

[QUOTE=Mrglitch2000;39761178]I've started to have an interest in politics and I have been reading up about all the recent hub-bub and I just find it really confusing. I don't want to be that type of person who doesn't want to spoil a vote, yet none of the parties seem to have anything that raises an eyelid for me. I see a lot of positive and negative opinion of UKIP and other parties and it makes me feel that I shouldn't trust anyone. Can anyone help me out? :tinfoil:[/QUOTE] In addition to the advice given by others, you should also look at the track record done by the parties. Manifestos are just ink on a paper. What they have proposed/voted for in the parliament reflects their true views.

I watched question time last night, that UKIP guy was the only one who knew what he was talking about.

[QUOTE=Vasili;39761605]I watched question time last night, that UKIP guy was the only one who knew what he was talking about.[/QUOTE] I watched that too and I couldn't disagree more, none of the parties sounded particularly credible but neil hamilton was the worst of the bunch

[QUOTE=Generic.Monk;39761098]No, the purpose of political parties in a democracy is to present the people with different policies and a coherent plan to solve national issues and enhance the country, UKIP's policies are just a mishmash of stuff that gets them votes. Even George Galloway has more integrity. [editline]1st March 2013[/editline] I think that people who don't follow politics very often are very likely to vote for UKIP, because on the surface they have a lot of policies that people agree with (essentially, if there's been enough damning press coverage of something recently UKIP's probably going to adopt a policy abolishing it). A 'daily mail' viewpoint is a right wing viewpoint becoming more disillusioned with the tory party and wishing that immigrants, homos and other groups they don't know much about would just go away. Basically someone who reads stories in the daily mail about binning curved bananas or something due to EU policy (a story the daily mail made up) then uses it to colour their opinion on EU policy. [editline]1st March 2013[/editline] Thankfully they're stealing votes from the tories which just means in a first past the post system that the tories and UKIP will end up with no power, which is just how it should be.[/QUOTE] Please tell me which of the main political parties offers a coherent plan? And one that they will stick to at that. 'Mishmash of stuff that gets them votes' - that's what they all do.. What reactionary policies has UKIP suddenly adopted? You 'think' people who don't follow politics vote for UKIP simply because you don't like UKIP, any argument you were trying to form has been completely blown apart by your last paragraph 'which is just how it should be' - so conservatives should have no power just because you think so? [QUOTE=Mrglitch2000;39761178]I've started to have an interest in politics and I have been reading up about all the recent hub-bub and I just find it really confusing. I don't want to be that type of person who doesn't want to spoil a vote, yet none of the parties seem to have anything that raises an eyelid for me. I see a lot of positive and negative opinion of UKIP and other parties and it makes me feel that I shouldn't trust anyone. Can anyone help me out? :tinfoil:[/QUOTE] Form your own views outside of political parties, then find a party that seems to fit your views. If you're not getting close enough, why not join a political party and try and make a difference? [QUOTE=redhaven;39761227]Just a quick guide to everyone: the UKIP = reactionary party; radically right on economics and social policies. the BNP = fascistic party; radically left on economics and radically right on social policies. Someone didn't do their homework. The BNP's policies (with some PR polishing) would appeal more to non-Rightists more than the UKIP will be. No Leftist would vote for a socially conservative and economically Libertarian party. While frustrated Labour voters are likely to go BNP with their nationalisation, economic protectionism, and other economic socialist tendencies.[/QUOTE] Except barely any voters can be defined on a 'left' or 'right' basis - people are allowed to be 'right wing' economically and 'left wing' on social policies and vice versa and still be Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem, whatever voters.

[QUOTE=butt2089;39761753] Except barely any voters can be defined on a 'left' or 'right' basis - people are allowed to be 'right wing' economically and 'left wing' on social policies and vice versa and still be Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem, whatever voters.[/QUOTE] That doesn't make sense. Aside from a protest vote (which is a self-defeating measure), why would a Leftist vote for the UKIP? Because of Europe? Fat chance.

[QUOTE=redhaven;39761838]That doesn't make sense. Aside from a protest vote (which is a self-defeating measure), why would a Leftist vote for the UKIP? Because of Europe? Fat chance.[/QUOTE] You've completely missed my point, I'm saying that voters aren't so easily categorised into left and right and therefore a Labour voter can still become a UKIP voter. Also I'm intrigued, define a 'Leftist' and why they wouldn't join UKIP.

Aww man, I was being on the Elvis loves Pets Party. :c

[QUOTE=butt2089;39761879]You've completely missed my point, I'm saying that voters aren't so easily categorised into left and right and therefore a Labour voter can still become a UKIP voter. Also I'm intrigued, define a 'Leftist' and why they wouldn't join UKIP.[/QUOTE] Of course, the left right paradigm is awfully simplistic. But nevertheless UKIP appeals primarily towards the far right (by our countries standard).

ukip are about as libertarian as labour is socialist the uk political system is a circus and farage is the silliest clown of all

[QUOTE=butt2089;39761879]You've completely missed my point, I'm saying that voters aren't so easily categorised into left and right and therefore a Labour voter can still become a UKIP voter. Also I'm intrigued, define a 'Leftist' and why they wouldn't join UKIP.[/QUOTE] Again, why would a Labour voter (with the assumption that one hasn't change one's views) vote for the UKIP in the general election? It's like asking a Ron Paul supporter to vote for the US Green Party. UKIP is a party that wants to reduce corporation tax and abolish the inheritance tax. They already dislike the Tories, and you expect that one would vote for UKIP? Of course, you would argue that Labour voters would vote UKIP because of the EU, after all, that's the reason why they exist! But that would be a disappointment. People just don't really care about the EU as much as they care about the economy, crime, or immigration. This is the case because of the lack of knowledge about the EU and its process, so while we frequently hear "Durr! Those damn EU bureaucrats!", things don't go that far in comparison to the later three issues where people have more experience with and find them to be more relevant. Ad that with the FPTP voting rules, this is why we see them getting seats in Brussels but not in Westminster. A Leftist (i.e. a Labour voter*) is someone from the economic-left. I'm using a Leftist as an example on why the UKIP won't get that much appeal from all over the political spectrum as you have claimed. *I know that Labour is difference since Blair, but the core supporter didn't really change that much.

[QUOTE=redhaven;39767212]Again, why would a Labour voter (with the assumption that one hasn't change one's views) vote for the UKIP in the general election? It's like asking a Ron Paul supporter to vote for the US Green Party. UKIP is a party that wants to reduce corporation tax and abolish the inheritance tax. They already dislike the Tories, and you expect that one would vote for UKIP? Of course, you would argue that Labour voters would vote UKIP because of the EU, after all, that's the reason why they exist! But that would be a disappointment. People just don't really care about the EU as much as they care about the economy, crime, or immigration. This is the case because of the lack of knowledge about the EU and its process, so while we frequently hear "Durr! Those damn EU bureaucrats!", things don't go that far in comparison to the later three issues where people have more experience with and find them to be more relevant. Ad that with the FPTP voting rules, this is why we see them getting seats in Brussels but not in Westminster. A Leftist (i.e. a Labour voter*) is someone from the economic-left. I'm using a Leftist as an example on why the UKIP won't get that much appeal from all over the political spectrum as you have claimed. *I know that Labour is difference since Blair, but the core supporter didn't really change that much.[/QUOTE] I believe you said earlier: [QUOTE=redhaven;39767212]Someone hasn't done their homework[/QUOTE] Please read up on UKIPs policies [url=http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies]here[/url] - anything in there about what people really care about? You know, the economy, crime and immigration? If you're defining a 'Leftist' as someone on the economic left then there's still every chance they'll switch to UKIP, read the UKIP policies - not all of them are economic and there's no reason that they can't appeal to core Labour supporters. [QUOTE=redhaven;39767212]This is the case because of the lack of knowledge about the EU and its process[/QUOTE] [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1249095&p=39698542&viewfull=1#post39698542]Here[/url] is a post of mine with a few views on why the EU is shit. Please, as I clearly have a lack of knowledge about the EU and it's process, especially those damn EU bureaucrats, would you be as kind as to explain why we must not question the EU?

[QUOTE=butt2089;39770143] Please read up on UKIPs policies [url=http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies]here[/url] - [/QUOTE] [quote]• Repeal the Human Rights Act to end abuses by convicted criminals and illegal immigrants. • Free the police force from the straitjacket of political correctness and ‘targets’.[/quote] haha

[QUOTE=kenshin6;39760237]Liberal democrat sounds kinda redundant[/QUOTE] They're actually a merger of two left-wing parties, the Liberal Party and the Social Democratic Party. David Lloyd George, Prime Minister in WWI, was a Liberal. The Lib-Dems are yet to win an election though, and I still wonder what the UK would be like if somebody actually gave them a chance.

[QUOTE=thisispain;39770274]haha[/QUOTE] [img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/11/13/1352816942528/Abu-Qatada-leaves-court-A-008.jpg[/img]

I wish I knew more about British politics to understand what all of this means.

[QUOTE=thisispain;39770274]haha[/QUOTE] I especially like how, by repealing the Human Rights act, even Russia and Azerbaijan would technically speaking have a better human rights protection than the UK.

[QUOTE=butt2089;39770333][img]http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2012/11/13/1352816942528/Abu-Qatada-leaves-court-A-008.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] are you gonna make a point or is his picture supposed to inspire patriotic anger