Monument to soldiers who died liberating Ukraine from Nazis toppled
58 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;44018133]I don't understand why you'd go around fucking up monuments.
It's history.
No matter what you do you can't escape it.
Why did they fuck up the lenin statues though, off-topic but why?[/QUOTE]
Because people don't want to look at monuments of forced heroes from a country that helped with a mass genocide on it's people. It would be like the Germans forcing Israel to keep statues to Himmler and Mengele.
[QUOTE=Ezhik;44018936]It's still pretty fucked up. True, Soviet Union was bad, but celebrating people fighting with the Nazis as the liberators, drafted or not, is wrong.[/QUOTE]
Honestly, with how Ukraine was treated under Soviet rule, the Nazis may aswell of been liberators.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor]Holodomor is equally bad, if not fucking worse then a great deal of the Holocaust[/url].
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;44019229]What would happen if they erected a monument of any of these people and added a plaque reading 'X was a faget' instead?
Sure, it's a really tasteless joke, but would people consider that to be satire or a cleverly concealed tribute?[/QUOTE]
Satire probably. Hell some old era monuments are sometimes left as well, more in a sense of remembrance of what happened in the past. But most of the idol worship is gone.
Basically it was worse than Nehru in India. There was a leninthis, a stalinthat, statues in jut about every city.
Basically take all Nehruplaces in Delhi and make it worse.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;44019243]Honestly, with how Ukraine was treated under Soviet rule, the Nazis may aswell of been liberators.
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor]Holodomor is equally bad, if not fucking worse then a great deal of the Holocaust[/url].[/QUOTE]
And completely ignored by most westerners, since the USSR had a lock-and-key on the info for a long while
[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;44019085]Oh god ahahahaaha fuck I can't stop laughing[/QUOTE]
Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fun, but imagine what if it will happen with some monument to U.S. soldiers that fought in ww2. Will it still be fun to you?
I mean, you can hate Soviet Union, but this has nothing to do with politics, these people were just fighting and giving their lifes on the land of the foreign countries just to finish the war. It's a monument not to the Soviet Union or anything connected with it, it's a monument to the people. I just don't understand.
[QUOTE=antianan;44019358]Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fun, but imagine what if it will happen with some monument to U.S. soldiers that fought in ww2. Will it still be fun to you?
I mean, you can hate Soviet Union, but this has nothing to do with politics, these people were just fighting and giving their lifes on the land of the foreign countries just to finish the war. It's a monument not to the Soviet Union or anything connected with it, it's a monument to the people. I just don't understand.[/QUOTE]
The U.S never engaged in genocide against Ukraine during WW2. There is a connection between a soldier and its governments actions. If a monument to U.S soldiers was erected in Hiroshima I would expect outrage and understand that.
[QUOTE=antianan;44019358]Yeah, yeah, it's pretty fun, but imagine what if it will happen with some monument to U.S. soldiers that fought in ww2. Will it still be fun to you?
I mean, you can hate Soviet Union, but this has nothing to do with politics, these people were just fighting and giving their lifes on the land of the foreign countries just to finish the war. It's a monument not to the Soviet Union or anything connected with it, it's a monument to the people. I just don't understand.[/QUOTE]
If the US erected statues in a country that they helped with genocide in, then yeah, it would be fun as hell to rip those fuckers down.
Those statues are monuments to the Soviet union's fighting men, which are apart of the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Union helped with mass murder and genocide in the Ukraine and in several other Eastern bloc countries.
What if Japan had erected post-war monuments in Nanking, China? "It's nothing political, it's just monuments to the men that fought there and gave their lives!". What if the Russians erected more monuments in Katyn for the Russian soldiers who executed 15,000 POW's and Civilians? "They were only doing their duty and what their commanders told them to! We should honor them, not damn them!"
Bull Shit.
[QUOTE=Adsone;44017910]They're not being very good to themselves by burning every single car and trashing every public monument they find.
I understand it's a revolution but fuck, you need to live in this country when you're done, stop trashing it just because you can.[/QUOTE]
Look up Deindividuation theory. You would probably start doing the same if you were there right now.
[editline]23rd February 2014[/editline]
Facepunch always seems to leave these horribly detached posts that mock the protesters and revolutionaries whenever something like this happens in a county, even when I'm pretty sure they'd end up doing the same if it ever came to them.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;44019436]If the US erected statues in a country that they helped with genocide in, then yeah, it would be fun as hell to rip those fuckers down.
Those statues are monuments to the Soviet union's fighting men, which are apart of the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Union helped with mass murder and genocide in the Ukraine and in several other Eastern bloc countries.
What if Japan had erected post-war monuments in Nanking, China? "It's nothing political, it's just monuments to the men that fought there and gave their lives!". What if the Russians erected more monuments in Katyn for the Russian soldiers who executed 15,000 POW's and Civilians? "They were only doing their duty and what their commanders told them to! We should honor them, not damn them!"
Bull Shit.[/QUOTE]
I like how nobody in this thread acknowledges the fact that Germans had the actual intentions of exterminating everybody in the Ukraine, demolishing anything they had built, and replacing it with Germans.
Facepunch's Russian-hate boner really has to stop getting in the way of common sense.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;44024136]I like how nobody in this thread acknowledges the fact that Germans had the actual intentions of exterminating everybody in the Ukraine, demolishing anything they had built, and replacing it with Germans.
Facepunch's Russian-hate boner really has to stop getting in the way of common sense.[/QUOTE]
it ain't so much russia, as it is the old red scare, most folks tend to associate everything with the soviets as evil incarnate or something , its amusing seeing people who think stalin was worse than hitler, considering what the latter had in plan for pretty much everyone east of germany if he had won.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;44024136]I like how nobody in this thread acknowledges the fact that Germans had the actual intentions of exterminating everybody.[/QUOTE]
The Facists in Germany were evil. That doesn't make the USSR good in the eyes of the Ukrainian people.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;44024136]I like how nobody in this thread acknowledges the fact that Germans had the actual intentions of exterminating everybody in the Ukraine, demolishing anything they had built, and replacing it with Germans.
Facepunch's Russian-hate boner really has to stop getting in the way of common sense.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, what the Soviet Union did was basically the same as Nazi Germany in the long run.
Both pushed for essentially insane policies, were politically isolated, were run by paranoid politicians, pursued unsustainable economic policies, committed genocide on the scale of millions, had vast prison camp complexes, were totalitarian, and incredibly expansionist, equating success with that of strengthening the state and their ideology worldwide.
Hitler and his plan died early, but the Soviet Union had another half century to go, where it continued with intensive policies of Russification, crushing human rights organisations, claiming political dissenters were "mentally ill" and throwing them into asylums, and preventing national sovereignty movements.
It's no surprise that when it collapsed, nobody ran to save it.
[QUOTE=1nfiniteseed;44024136]I like how nobody in this thread acknowledges the fact that Germans had the actual intentions of exterminating everybody in the Ukraine, demolishing anything they had built, and replacing it with Germans.
Facepunch's Russian-hate boner really has to stop getting in the way of common sense.[/QUOTE]
I'm not defending the Germans there anymore than I am the fucking Soviets. I'm just saying that the fucking Soviets were anything but heroes.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44024237]it ain't so much russia, as it is the old red scare, most folks tend to associate everything with the soviets as evil incarnate or something , its amusing seeing people who think stalin was worse than hitler, considering what the latter had in plan for pretty much everyone east of germany if he had won.[/QUOTE]
Stalin was worse then Hitler.
You can say 'oh but hitler wanted to do more evil stuff' but guess what? That never happened so it is basically nothing.
The Sovet Union was a terrible place ran by a paranoid fuck who killed everyone who looked funny at him, this doesn't make Nazi Germany good however and this isn't what we are saying.
We get told at school how terrible the Nazi's were but never about the things the Soviets did.
Shitting on the memory of their own ancestors who fought in the defense of their homeland.
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;44026993]Stalin was worse then Hitler.
You can say 'oh but hitler wanted to do more evil stuff' but guess what? That never happened so it is basically nothing.
The Sovet Union was a terrible place ran by [B]paranoid fuck who killed everyone who looked funny at him[/B], this doesn't make Nazi Germany good however and this isn't what we are saying.
We get told at school how terrible the Nazi's were but never about the things the Soviets did.[/QUOTE]
I found out recently that after suffering a stroke, stalin's personal guards didn't call for medical attention for [B]12 hours[/B] because they were afraid he'd execute them all for acting without his direct orders. It happened in his room and even when he failed to appear for a day after falling ill, everyone was too terrified to even approach his door, though he turned a light on at one point so they were delayed in their worries he may have died.
[url]http://www.surgicalneurologyint.com/article.asp?issn=2152-7806;year=2011;volume=2;issue=1;spage=161;epage=161;aulast=Faria[/url]
[QUOTE=Valiantttt;44026993]Stalin was worse then Hitler.
You can say 'oh but hitler wanted to do more evil stuff' but guess what? That never happened so it is basically nothing.
The Sovet Union was a terrible place ran by a paranoid fuck who killed everyone who looked funny at him, this doesn't make Nazi Germany good however and this isn't what we are saying.
We get told at school how terrible the Nazi's were but never about the things the Soviets did.[/QUOTE]
you make it sound as if hitler pretending to purge nearly everyone east of germany was some kind of "fantasy" , considering what he did to the jews/blacks/homosexuals/disabled/roma, its pretty obvious he would kill a LOT more people than stalin ever did.
but keep going on the delusion that stalin was worse than hitler lol.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032077]you make it sound as if hitler pretending to purge nearly everyone east of germany was some kind of "fantasy" , considering what he did to the jews/blacks/homosexuals/disabled/roma, its pretty obvious he would kill a LOT more people than stalin ever did.
but keep going on the delusion that stalin was worse than hitler lol.[/QUOTE]
Stalin was big on ethnic cleansing as well.
I do believe that if Hitler had stayed alive he would have killed more.
Can't deny though, Stalin probably killed more and possibly in a slightly less humane manner, working people to death on the bone road. The road was built over the corpses of the people who built the previous stretch.
[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;44032188]Stalin was big on ethnic cleansing as well.
I do believe that if Hitler had stayed alive he would have killed more.
Can't deny though, Stalin probably killed more and possibly in a slightly less humane manner, working people to death on the bone road. The road was built over the corpses of the people who built the previous stretch.[/QUOTE]
as bad as they were, nothing the soviets did was as inhumane as the holocaust.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032275]as bad as they were, nothing the soviets did was as inhumane as the holocaust.[/QUOTE]
hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
because killing between like 20-60 million people isn't inhumane
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44032349]hahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha
because killing between like 20-60 million people isn't inhumane[/QUOTE]
hitler would easily top that, if he had the time/resources stalin did.
well he fucking didn't, and if you seriously think the soviets were better off in their Siberian death camps than people in concentration camps than I seriously think you need to reconsider what you're actually going on about
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032077]you make it sound as if hitler pretending to purge nearly everyone east of germany was some kind of "fantasy" , considering what he did to the jews/blacks/homosexuals/disabled/roma, its pretty obvious he would kill a LOT more people than stalin ever did.
but keep going on the delusion that stalin was worse than hitler lol.[/QUOTE]
Read his post again. Second line. Hitler was a mean guy but most of what he wanted to do was never accomplished. Stalin and the Soviets had half a century more time to play around with genocide and starving people to death.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032403]hitler would easily top that, [b]if[/b] he had the time/resources stalin did.[/QUOTE]
[i]IF[/i] he had the resources, [i]IF[/i] he had the time. But he didn't and thats the point here. Stalin and the Soviets were worse than Hitler because they "achieved" more in their time than Hitler did.
[editline]24th February 2014[/editline]
And another thing is, the Soviets had camps set up quite like the concentration camps Germany were using. The Soviet union was also sending back refugees, who fled from Nazi death squads, back into the Ukraine and Germany.
not only starving people to death, but forcing people to essentially work themselves to death by mining gold and other resources that were used for luxury purposes back in moscow.
[QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;44032894]not only starving people to death, but forcing people to essentially work themselves to death by mining gold and other resources that were used for luxury purposes back in moscow.[/QUOTE]
I think we have established that Stalin and his successors were bad people who did terrible things.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032275]as bad as they were, nothing the soviets did was as inhumane as the holocaust.[/QUOTE]
are you fucking serious
do you fucking know what the holodomor was???
the soviets did literal fucking genocide, killing millions of fucking ukrainians
they purposefully cut the food supply to ukraine and exported every last grain knowing full well that they are killing people
[QUOTE]By the end of 1933, millions of people had starved to death or had otherwise died unnaturally in Ukraine and the other Soviet republics. The total number of population losses is estimated as 6–7 million[/QUOTE]
people were literally so fucking starved that [B][I]eating your own children was a common thing[/I][/B]
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/Holomor_Art_Denysenko_1.jpg/448px-Holomor_Art_Denysenko_1.jpg[/IMG]
[editline]24th February 2014[/editline]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Z8x0DZ3.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032275]as bad as they were, nothing the soviets did was as inhumane as the holocaust.[/QUOTE]
my family was arrested for who they happened to be, were deported to a camp in Archangelcansk, and then most of them died there, before the remainder was broken up and spread across eastern europe while the family lands were taken by the state
is it not inhumane to destroy the slavic nations? in the name of some shit and warped philosophy about "liberation" from some vague notion that somehow the people in these countries are being oppressed by themselves, and therefore should be killed?
whole generations of people were uprooted, broken apart, shot, starved, and left to work as slaves in "peoples republics" while all of the resources and goods they produced was sucked out and used to prop up the dying parasitical regime of moscow? all in the name of communism? berlin had the same plan for these people, to move them to make room for their own ethnic group, and to use the undesirables as slaves to feed their military machine
any country which wants to establish what was in Russia from 1917 until 1991 is an inhumane one, on par with germany under hitler
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032403]hitler would easily top that, if he had the time/resources stalin did.[/QUOTE]
In one year, Stalin had managed to wipe out a serious chunk of the Ukrainian population. One year. Seven million people. More then the entirety of the Holocaust.
Stalin, the USSR, the Soviet way of enslaving people, it was fucking disgusting. I cannot even begin to describe my hatred for the things the Soviet Union has done. The Russians are my true hatred, and whatever elite was within the SSRs during those periods of time... The Russians could live oh-so-blissfully, while people in the "Democrat Republics" and other SSRs were tortured and enslaved. The USSR was nothing but a giant North Korea. It was a terrible, terrible thing, and it's entire existence would of sickened Marx.
[QUOTE=Wizards Court;44032077]you make it sound as if hitler pretending to purge nearly everyone east of germany was some kind of "fantasy" , considering what he did to the jews/blacks/homosexuals/disabled/roma, its pretty obvious he would kill a LOT more people than stalin ever did.
but keep going on the delusion that stalin was worse than hitler lol.[/QUOTE]
Dont be an asshole, he is not saying that. He said Hitler didnt manage to fulfill his plans which doesnt equal to saying it was some kind of "fantasy".
The holodomor, invasion of eastern european countries, making guerilla forces who fought agaisnt the nazis in poland, Chezch republic and Ukraine dissapear, shooting officers from the polish army, forced marches of german prisoners to siberia and keeping them there for years. Killing ALL dissidents and POSSIBLE opposition after taking power. Moving Chechnya people around like if they were chess pieces not giving a fuck about them dying or kicking them out of their land.
I can keep going on. Stalin was way fucking worse than Hitler. I dont give a fuck about their planned intentions, for all I could care then the Kim's from NK are the worst people of the world.
Please.
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