[QUOTE=Mingebox;29340578]But for people like psychopaths who couldn't feel guilt even if they wanted to, it might as well be toast. To make matters worse, psychopaths are extremely good at lying and mimicking normal people.[/QUOTE]
The fact that you're using a defunct term leads me to believe you don't know much about the condition
Alternate sentence: put them all under permanent house arrest and have them live in the same cramped, one bedroom house for life.
[QUOTE=teh pirate;29340644]you either are or aren't a psychopath, there's no "like" a psychopath
having known Amber from kindergarten to 4th and considering she's the only one out of these 6 that isn't all tatted up and covered in body piercings i'm going to assume she was done in by peer pressure. she wouldn't do this on her own.[/QUOTE]
I meant "like" as in "such as." I'm not talking about this case in particular, I'm just saying that there are people who can't be rehabilitated.
[QUOTE=GoldenGnome;29340753]Alternate sentence: put them all under permanent house arrest and have them live in the same cramped, one bedroom house for life.[/QUOTE]
fuck off
burn the fuckers alive
[QUOTE=teh pirate;29340774]fuck off[/QUOTE]
sorry for describing your home life
[QUOTE=GoldenGnome;29340804]sorry for describing your home life[/QUOTE]
do you seriously not see anything wrong with this or
[QUOTE=GoldenGnome;29340804]sorry for describing your home life[/QUOTE]
teh pirate knew one of the perpetrators so it's probably best not to be a condescending prick to him
[QUOTE=Sanius;29340834]teh pirate knew one of the perpetrators so it's probably best not to be a condescending prick to him[/QUOTE]
just went back and read, my bad
however, that doesn't absolve her of her crime. the fact that she [i]fucking helped to murder[/i] someone over a [i]fucking facebook fight[/i] is just absurd, and she and her cronies ought to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
i understand that killers are not always fucking creepy sickos. i get that. im usually against death penalty and such. but this is utterly inexcusable, and i will continue to believe that these people don't deserve the air they breathe in until i see some compelling evidence otherwise, and maybe a fucking sensible motive for this heinous crime, at the very least.
i'll give you an example. i'm sure you've all read Truman Capote's [i]In Cold Blood[/i]. If not, you should. I'm not going to give you a full synopsis, but here's the gist: some guys murder a family for money, one guy had a fucked up childhood, one guy didnt even want to kill them in the first place, but things got out of hand. in any case, these guys were probably salvageable, but the law had them killed, and i happen to disagree with that penalty, because evidence was given to support the case that they were salvageable. i personally don't see anything salvageable in a person willing to fucking torture, burn, and murder some kid over a fucking facebook fight.
if anyone can present evidence to the contrary i'd be willing to reconsider.
not that an internet fight is going to alter their sentence but i dunno.
this shit is suppose to only happen in movies
[QUOTE=YouWithTheFace.;29340991]this shit is suppose to only happen in movies[/QUOTE]
Love and paint cans with ashes - The movie
What were they looking to accomplish with this?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29340684]The fact that you're using a defunct term leads me to believe you don't know much about the condition[/QUOTE]
The fact that so many people here simply say, [i]"Oh- well if they're violent psychopaths/sociopaths just rehabilitate them using medicine and everything will work out fine,"[/i] leads me to believe that [b]many[/b] here know next to nothing about the condition, have never even had to meet much less diagnose/treat a person with the condition, and regularly enjoy acting like armchair theoreticians on the Internet.
Psychopathy/sociopathy has no cure or fix or whatever you wish to call it as of 2011. And it's unlikely it will anytime soon, for that matter, given how unsure even the doctors and scientists, who deal by profession in this area of mental health, I might add-- are about the disorder itself. No consensus has even been reached on whether or not the two terms can be used interchangeably, or whether or not they represent distinctively independent disorders. Some say they are distinct, others argue that they are not. Therapy, drugs, and physical approaches (ranging from electroshock treatment to actual surgery on the brain) are the only ways currently to go about even attempting to treat it, and their effectiveness is not even known; it's purely speculative. Some claim it works, some claim it doesn't. It's not even known how exactly it develops- this accounting for the wide range of supposed treatments.
A little more on ASPD can be found here:
[url]http://www.accg.net/antisocial.htm[/url]
[editline]21st April 2011[/editline]
Oh- and they also point out what Minge was saying: they tend to be very manipulative and lie a lot, particularly when put under pressure (making treatment ineffective entirely, difficult, or impossible altogether using the group therapy method several here have suggested).
[QUOTE=SilverDragon619;29340782]burn the fuckers alive[/QUOTE]
An eye for an eye makes the whole world look funny because nobody has eyes.
You should listen to Gandhi.
[QUOTE=Kagrenak;29339143]One, please stop posting in a format where you have
a
line break
after every three
words.
It's really annoying and it makes your posts incredibly tedious to read and to respond to. By my statement saying they haven't done anything wrong yet, I mean that all persons are innocent until proven guilty. As of yet, none of them have done a single thing related to this case. So by definition, they are all completely innocent, and it's wrong of us to assume otherwise.
(This is when you would begin a new paragraph, when your subject changes, or you've completely expanded upon a point. You can also begin new paragraphs that expand on the old for formatting reasons as well.) Now, responding to your first point, you devised a scenario in your original post that I was responding to that depicts these people as clearly being criminally insane, and said that that original scenario is worse than if they were killing for revenge or for money. So based on your response to your self-created little scenarios, you view the criminally insane as fit for murder, which is a human rights violation.[/QUOTE]
But they didn't kill him because they were insane. It was because of that facebook drama or something, name calling, telling about someone being addicted to meth or some shit. Obviously it wasn't just some criminally insane psychopath who randomly killed someone. They all planned the murder and executed it, or maybe not all of them were part of the plan for murder. But they even attempted to get rid of the evidence by burning the body.
So if it's okay I assume things like that, I think it's safe to assume things went down pretty much like that. They'll come to whatever verdict at the courthouse then, hell maybe the murderers walk free. Or.. in that case they wouldn't be the actual murderers of course.
So what are we even talking about here? We both want the same. If they, or some of them, are criminally insane, they should spend some time in a looney bin. But as how things so far suggest otherwise, I'm "hoping" for sentences varying from 10 to 40 years up to death for the persons involved, if anyone even gets convicted and this case drops in the unsolved mysteries box.
[QUOTE=breakyourfac;29339393]You don't get killed by 6 people for nothing. The had [b]HAD[/b] to do something.[/QUOTE]
Yup, he insulted one of the girls on facebook.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29340489]Believe it or not there are critical psychological differences between people who kill and people who put peanut butter on toast that allow this rehabilitation to be possible[/QUOTE]
Care to prove that btw?
Because has the idea ever crossed your mind that these people who kill might just actually be people? I mean, there have been killers, killings and whatever for as long as I bother turning the history book pages.
Critical psychological differences.. yeah, people are different. I don't suppose you are saying that anyone who pulls out a kill is psychologically abnormal? Some have more tendency to commit a murder when pushed far enough, some can't commit a murder at all, some kill because they are actually insane, some kill only in extreme consequences. There's so much people you know..
Also peanut butter toast sounds delicious.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;29343278]Care to prove that btw?
Because has the idea ever crossed your mind that these people who kill might just actually be people? I mean, there have been killers, killings and whatever for as long as I bother turning the history book pages.
Critical psychological differences.. yeah, people are different. I don't suppose you are saying that anyone who pulls out a kill is psychologically abnormal? Some have more tendency to commit a murder when pushed far enough, some can't commit a murder at all, some kill because they are actually insane, some kill only in extreme consequences. There's so much people you know..
Also peanut butter toast sounds delicious.[/QUOTE]
yes. they are people.
people who [i]maim and kill[/i] over [i]facebook fights[/i].
so... uh... why?
Holy shit
Another reason why facebook should be taken down.
It's times like these I remember that most people are not like this. Most people are just trying to live their lives, and deal with issues as they present themselves. A very few actually do horrible things like this. That these things happen is the only reason we must be aware.
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;29341332]post[/QUOTE]
Antisocial Personality Disorder can be managed with therapy and/or medication in a lot of cases
You also need to remember that only something like 1 in 1000 people with ASPD ever actually hurt other people
That's .1% percent
And facepunch, stop using the term psychopath to describe murders because it's wrong and derogatory in the way that using faggot as an insult against idiots is wrong and derogatory
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29348191]Antisocial Personality Disorder can be managed with therapy and/or medication in a lot of cases
You also need to remember that only something like 1 in 1000 people with ASPD ever actually hurt other people
That's .1% percent[/quote]
[quote]Antisocial personality disorder is sometimes referred to as psychopathy or sociopathy. However, these two are not the same. Rather, psychopathy and sociopathy are generally considered subsets of ASPD. Some researchers believe that ASPD and psychopathy may be separate conditions altogether.[2][/quote]
Doesn't sound very outdated to me, the meaning is still the same. Sociopath might describe your ASPD when people aren't hurt, Psychopath when they are or something else entirely. It still implies they feel no remorse, are nearly unable to be rehabilitated and the distinction between the two is based on the criteria i mentioned previously.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29348191]And facepunch, stop using the term psychopath to describe murders because it's wrong and derogatory in the way that using faggot as an insult against idiots is wrong and derogatory[/QUOTE]
[b]No[/b]. It's [i]extremely[/i] [b]not[/b] like that. They might be wrong but you of all people should really not be tossing that shit around.
They might be wrongly labelled as a psychopath but they weren't born to murder people.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;29348191]Antisocial Personality Disorder can be managed with therapy and/or medication in a lot of cases[/quote]
Not really. The link points out that there is not a known effective way to treat it that doctors and researchers are in agreement on. Therapy and drugs are often tried, but they guarantee no success. The condition is not understood well enough from a physiological standpoint for a drug that actually works to be developed, and therapy often, because the people themselves are good liars and very manipulative in nature.
[quote]Currently, there is no widely accepted effective method of treating sociopathic personality types. They tend to be very manipulative during treatment and tend to lie and cover up personal faults in themselves and have little insight into their behavior patterns. They tend to exhibit short-term enthusiasm for treatment, particularly after an incident which has brought them into contact with society or the law, however, once this anxiety is relieved and reduced, they frequently drop out of treatment and fall back into the same sociopathic patterns that brought them into treatment initially. In most cases, the prognosis remains unfavorable throughout the individual’s life-span.[/quote]
No controlled studies have found an effective treatment, either. Reward systems have only shown [b]moderate[/b] success at best.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder#Treatment[/url]
So no, to claim that ASPD can be effectively managed with therapy and medication willy-nilly is absolute bunk. More often than not, it does not work. Which is exactly what's important here.
[quote=Zeke129]You also need to remember that only something like 1 in 1000 people with ASPD ever actually hurt other people
That's .1% percent[/quote]
Where did these statistics come from then? Because, according to the sources I've consulted, statistics show that a quarter of all people arrested for violent crimes have ASPD/psychopathy ([url]http://www.fmhac.net/Assets/Documents/2011/Presentations/HoronRobertsHenderson.pdf[/url] page 4; note that this report is less than a month old).
[quote=Zeke129]And facepunch, stop using the term psychopath to describe murders because it's wrong and derogatory in the way that using faggot as an insult against idiots is wrong and derogatory[/QUOTE]
We're not. Stop claiming that drugs and therapy can effectively manage it when we don't even know enough about the physiological roots of it to develop an effective medication, and when therapy has been proven to be ineffective; the only treatment to show moderate success at best is the reward system of treatment (at best, mind you).
[QUOTE=faze;29335247]Those people are fucking asshats. I vote for death penalty. Who agrees?[/QUOTE]
Fuck that, a 1.5m x 1.5m x 1.5m cell with no windows and starvation rations. Pad the walls so they can't kill themselves and leave them there.
First the murder of the two british tourists now this, way to go Miami.
[QUOTE=s0beit;29348484]Doesn't sound very outdated to me, the meaning is still the same. Sociopath might describe your ASPD when people aren't hurt, Psychopath when they are or something else entirely. It still implies they feel no remorse, are nearly unable to be rehabilitated and the distinction between the two is based on the criteria i mentioned previously.
[b]No[/b]. It's [i]extremely[/i] [b]not[/b] like that. They might be wrong but you of all people should really not be tossing that shit around.
They might be wrongly labelled as a psychopath but they weren't born to murder people.[/QUOTE]
I've actually had this conversation with my cousin who is a Forensic Psychologist as well as worked extensively with other judicial originations. He's met, studied and spoken to extensively with Criminal 'psychopaths'. He does not believe there is a tangible reason to call them that. Mostly because, and this is something any rational person should agree with, most people diagnosed with that have many, many other issues to contend with. No human being is without any portion of emotion or thought of their actions. Even then, the term is a set list of things the person supposedly contends to.
These are the same terms grouped in with Organised and Disorganised perpetrators. They are SO outdated and do not factor non-similarities in when most of the time there are.
Honestly I'd believe psychologist who's dealt with these people for a few decades over Sobeit posting a vague quote on wikipedia.
[editline]22nd April 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=LunchboxOfDoom;29348917]
Where did these statistics come from then? Because, according to the sources I've consulted, statistics show that a quarter of all people arrested for violent crimes have ASPD/psychopathy ([url]http://www.fmhac.net/Assets/Documents/2011/Presentations/HoronRobertsHenderson.pdf[/url] page 4; note that this report is less than a month old).[/QUOTE]
They label a person if they show at least half of the symptoms, which is mainly why it's outdated
American criminal psychology is corrupt. Only up until a few years ago, they used to arrest you as being criminally insane for doing drugs. And the AMA had classified Homosexuality as being a mental disorder.
I see people vote this and that, but where's the poll?
[QUOTE=Earthen;29350762]Fuck that, a 1.5m x 1.5m x 1.5m cell with no windows and starvation rations. Pad the walls so they can't kill themselves and leave them there.[/QUOTE]
1.5^3 is pretty big.
Atleast for what they have done.
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