Feds Order Chicago School to Allow Locker Room Access for Transgender Student - Polidicks

[QUOTE=hexpunK;49043727]Am I having a stroke?![/QUOTE] You clearly need to pump yourself, along with plenty of minors, with additional oestrogen. It's not as if you're furthering your already profound mental instability.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49043678]Yeah but I'm a guy. I'm not even trans. I sort of understand on principle, but once again, if a girl is uncomfortable with the situation she can just go change in the stalls. I mean, what's the source of the discomfort? Is it thinking "This is just some perv trying to see me naked", or is it "This girl looks has a penis and that makes me uncomfortable". Let's say it's the first. If the intent of the girl is not "I want to see some JB boobies", then is there cause for discomfort? What if there were a lesbian girl in the locker room; a lesbian girl with a massive crush on another girl in the room. It would be inconceivable to kick the lesbian out of the locker room, but it's ok to kick out someone who may have no interest in any of the girls in the room? And if it's the second, what would the reaction be if a ftm trans man was in the girls locker room. Would anybody care? What if this ftm looked quite manly but had a vagina? Would anyone object? What if that man wanted to go to the bone zone with every girl in the room? I can sympathize with feeling discomfort from the situation, but I think the solution for the other girls in the locker room is "go change in private". Who decided its okay for girls to see other girls naked anyways? I don't wanna show off my dick to other GUYS[/QUOTE] Now you are pretty much asking me this question: "Why can't a man have a vagina, why should someone be uncomfortable with seeing a woman with a dick?" Because highschool girls are not fucking used to seeing it, regular people are used to not seeing it. You keep bringing up gay people changing in locker rooms with their own sex, at least many of those people don't say "Hey look I'm having a boner for you I'm gay" No, heres the situation at hand; a bunch of girls go into the locker room to change (which may or may not have stalls, even if their are not nearly enough for all the girls) and this 'trans' student goes and removes their clothing revealing uncomfortable attributes of a male when it's supposed to be appropriate in this manner: Genders don't see each other undressed because male and females seeing each other in this manner unwillingly is INAPPROPRIATE. So yes it's "She has a penis that makes me uncomfortable." Even though she should be accepted among society, it DOES NOT mean that others should have to accept it to the point where it gets private and inappropriate. No matter what, it's not a girl, and even if she should be accepted as one, it is not the same, these 'sexist' standards are completely inapplicable in this situation, the school needs to have her going into a bathroom stall at least. People no matter what should not be forced to deal with this weird awkward type of shit because of "accepting trans students."

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49043720]Just so you know, she shouldn't be referred to as "he." In every area other than the locker rooms, she was recognized as a girl by the school - she is a she.[/QUOTE] I don't care if he thinks he's a damn submarine, and I'm sure as heck not going to submerge beneath the ocean waves for hours on end. [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Bigot and shitposting, go back to permaban thanks" - Craptasket))[/highlight]

This is in the running for the most outrageously bigoted and disgustingly transphobic thread I've ever seen on Facepunch. I don't even know how to respond to these - they aren't reasonable arguments, they're "that's the way we do things" and "but trans people are gross and weird!!" I'm honestly laughing at the absurdity. Do none of you realize how bigoted you're being? We shouldn't let black men change with white men - it might make the [i]normal white men[/i] uncomfortable because of their big dicks, right guys? Christ. Remind me to never enter a thread on trans people again. It depresses me that so many people think like this.

[QUOTE=Sportsfreak.;49043742]I grew up with HIM I was friends with HIM and his younger Brother they live in my neighborhood. All he did was simply change his name from a mans name to the feminine version of it and wear girls clothes. He is a boy until he is over 18 and get's the transplant.[/QUOTE] I'm not in any position to tell you what words to use (I don't believe in any of that micro-aggression stuff), but I just want to explain my view (and the most commonly accepted view among trans people) of the muddled definition of "gender". As I said in my last post, I don't believe that our conceptions of "girl" and "boy" are genetic. Of course, reproduction is genetic, but I don't think there's a genetic reason for girls wearing dresses or makeup. In various cultures and times in history, men have worn dresses or skirts and some still wear makeup today (South Korea, for example), and are totally heterosexual, non-trans men. I think, then that you have to "learn" to be a girl or boy, regardless of who you are. How could one possibly know that men wear pants and girls wear dresses if he had lived in the woods his entire life (in fact, in his view, maybe humans were meant to wear nothing at all). So the idea of gender (once again, non-reproductive; that is "sex") is heavily influenced by society. So most men learn to be men by their fathers and most women learn to be women by their mothers, so they end up in these nice little dichotomies. But when one person decides "I'm not a man; I'm a woman", what does that signify? It of course does not mean that this person has convinced himself that he has a uterus. It means he (now she) has realized that she is more comfortable doing the things that are expected of girls (wearing dresses, makeup, etc). If we accept the definition of gender as "the bullshit society made up to draw the line between those with dicks and those without, not including the aforementioned dicks", then this person is, by all means, a girl now. Sexually? This person will always be a man. Even with surgery, the penis is still there, the chromosomes are still there. So when you say "Until he has had the surgery", then even after she has had the surgery, she will still, sexually, be a man. This is a biological fact that cannot be escaped. But if all one needs to be a girl is to wear a dress and identify as a girl, then the surgery is rather irrelevant. This is also why the preferred word is "transgender", rather than "trangender[B]ed[/B]". The former indicates a static state while the latter implies a process that has been done (namely hormonal therapy or a sex change operation).

[QUOTE=Marceline;49043759]I don't care if he thinks he's a damn submarine, and I'm sure as heck not going to submerge beneath the ocean waves for hours on end.[/QUOTE] I feel like I'm dumber for reading this.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49043788]I'm not in any position to tell you what words to use (I don't believe in any of that micro-aggression stuff), but I just want to explain my view (and the most commonly accepted view among trans people) of the muddled definition of "gender". As I said in my last post, I don't believe that our conceptions of "girl" and "boy" are genetic. Of course, reproduction is genetic, but I don't think there's a genetic reason for girls wearing dresses or makeup. In various cultures and times in history, men have worn dresses or skirts and some still wear makeup today (South Korea, for example), and are totally heterosexual, non-trans men. I think, then that you have to "learn" to be a girl or boy, regardless of who you are. How could one possibly know that men wear pants and girls wear dresses if he had lived in the woods his entire life (in fact, in his view, maybe humans were meant to wear nothing at all). So the idea of gender (once again, non-reproductive; that is "sex") is heavily influenced by society. So most men learn to be men by their fathers and most women learn to be women by their mothers, so they end up in these nice little dichotomies. But when one person decides "I'm not a man; I'm a woman", what does that signify? It of course does not mean that this person has convinced himself that he has a uterus. It means he (now she) has realized that she is more comfortable doing the things that are expected of girls (wearing dresses, makeup, etc). If we accept the definition of gender as "the bullshit society made up to draw the line between those with dicks and those without, not including the aforementioned dicks", then this person is, by all means, a girl now. Sexually? This person will always be a man. Even with surgery, the penis is still there, the chromosomes are still there. So when you say "Until he has had the surgery", then even after she has had the surgery, she will still, sexually, be a man. This is a biological fact that cannot be escaped. But if all one needs to be a girl is to wear a dress and identify as a girl, then the surgery is rather irrelevant. This is also why the preferred word is "transgender", rather than "trangender[B]ed[/B]". The former indicates a static state while the latter implies a process that has been done (namely hormonal therapy or a sex change operation).[/QUOTE] I can't even argue back with this, I agree with mostly everything you said and understand your view point.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;49043691]what is this post?[/QUOTE] It's a Marceline post Edot: Thanks clapbasket

[QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49043750]Now you are pretty much asking me this question: "Why can't a man have a vagina, why should someone be uncomfortable with seeing a woman with a dick?" Because highschool girls are not fucking used to seeing it, regular people are used to not seeing it. You keep bringing up gay people changing in locker rooms with their own sex, at least many of those people don't say "Hey look I'm having a boner for you I'm gay" No, heres the situation at hand; a bunch of girls go into the locker room to change (which may or may not have stalls, even if their are not nearly enough for all the girls) and this 'trans' student goes and removes their clothing revealing uncomfortable attributes of a male when it's supposed to be appropriate in this manner: Genders don't see each other undressed because male and females seeing each other in this manner unwillingly is INAPPROPRIATE. So yes it's "She has a penis that makes me uncomfortable." Even though she should be accepted among society, it DOES NOT mean that others should have to accept it to the point where it gets private and inappropriate. No matter what, it's not a girl, and even if she should be accepted as one, it is not the same, these 'sexist' standards are completely inapplicable in this situation, the school needs to have her going into a bathroom stall at least. People no matter what should not be forced to deal with this weird awkward type of shit because of "accepting trans students."[/QUOTE] Right but who came up with those rules? (that the opposite gender doesn't see each other naked). I can agree to a level of discretion that ones own body is private and they should be able to show themselves naked to whomever they choose (or don't choose), but if that's the case then why do we force people to undress in front of the other gender? Undressing naked in front of a girl would make me just as uncomfortable as undressing naked in front of a man (actually, the man might make me MORE uncomfortable). Who decided that girls have to be okay with undressing in front of other girls? Their parents, probably, as that's who taught them that kind of modesty. I'm just saying that the entire situation is muddled with double and triple standards. I think there ought to be individual changing rooms [I]regardless[/I] of the situation of there being a trans girl in the locker room, because I don't think anybody should be forced to reveal oneself naked to another person, regardless of their gender. Hell, I don't even use urinals in public bathrooms.

[QUOTE=Morbo!!!;49043818]It's a Marceline post[/QUOTE] There isn't enough JIDF shilling to meet the standard. With each new post: my masters changed, along with the words they made me speak. Anyways, can anyone of you care to explain to a poor sod like myself how my first equivalency was false? Gender Dysphoria is scantly different from the symptoms associated with anorexia or Body Integration Identity Disorder (BIID).

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49043773]This is in the running for the most outrageously bigoted and disgustingly transphobic thread I've ever seen on Facepunch. I don't even know how to respond to these - they aren't reasonable arguments, they're "that's the way we do things" and "but trans people are gross and weird!!" I'm honestly laughing at the absurdity. Do none of you realize how bigoted you're being? We shouldn't let black men change with white men - it might make the [I]normal white men[/I] uncomfortable because of their big dicks, right guys? Christ. Remind me to never enter a thread on trans people again. It depresses me that so many people think like this.[/QUOTE] there's a huge difference between being racist and not wanting to have to [B]use the same showers[/B] as someone of the opposite sex. you're incredibly socially ignorant if you can't understand why people would have reasonable issues with this. like, shared bathrooms? sure! but there's absolutely a point with prohibiting locker rooms unless the person in question cuts the nuts and does sexual organ surgery.

[QUOTE=Marceline;49043845]There isn't enough JIDF shilling to meet the standard. With each new post: my masters changed, along with the words they made me speak. Anyways, can anyone of you care to explain to a poor sod like myself how my first equivalency was false? Gender Dysphoria is scantly different from the symptoms associated with anorexia or Body Integration Identity Disorder (BIID).[/QUOTE] Like I said before, Gender dysphoria is simply a misfit in societal roles. One sees oneself fitting better into the role society has given to the biologically female. This is a purely social issue, not a health issue (though unchecked gender dysphoria can lead to depression). BIID is delusion; one simply cannot see that one is at an unhealthy weight. It's a matter of fact that someone suffering BIID is at an unhealthy weight. It's not a matter of fact whether or not someone's gender is Male or Female. Now if someone who was born male came under the delusion that they had a uterus, then that would be comparable [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Monkah;49043858]there's a huge difference between being racist and not wanting to have to [B]use the same showers[/B] as someone of the opposite sex. you're incredibly socially ignorant if you can't understand why people would have reasonable issues with this. like, shared bathrooms? sure! but there's absolutely a point with prohibiting locker rooms unless the person in question cuts the nuts and does sexual organ surgery.[/QUOTE] I really don't get why. Even if you get the surgery, the penis is still there, it's just been ripped inside out. I think people ought to be uncomfortable being naked around ANYONE, regardless of gender. It's just totally arbitrary to choose "I'm afraid of being around dick". Even if that dick is totally not interested in you in any way and doesn't even see you sexually or even attractive. But once again, what if a lesbian girl was in the class, and was very interested in a girl. What if she got off watching this other girl shower at school everyday. Nobody can stop her. What's the girl who is, by product of being in the American public school system, being forced to be the eye candy of this girl, going to do? She can tell her off, but it would be unthinkable for the administration to kick the lesbian girl out of the locker room. They'd simply tell her "Just don't shower around her"

[QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49043646]Dude... I am literally saying, normal people don't wanna deal with it, therefore they should not have to deal with it. I'm not saying someone is doing it to be perverted, that means these girls should still have to be uncomfortable with it? No. There is no way anyone can literally argue this point, they should not have to deal with something creepy. This makes me feel extremely uncomfortable about the country I live in, how far will they let people take this shit? We already have a woman being called out on "discriminating" for not wanting to fucking see a 50 year old man's hairy ass and balls butt-naked, oh he was a FEMALE, yea fucking right what a crock of shit.[/QUOTE] This is a school changing room. There aren't going to be any 50-year-old transexuals in it. And even then, why are you assuming that everyone's going to look at "hairy ass and balls" in the changing room? Even cis men don't do that. I certainly don't look at other people when I'm getting changed in the locker room. There is nothing stopping cis people from being old and hairy, you know.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49043824]Right but who came up with those rules? (that the opposite gender doesn't see each other naked). I can agree to a level of discretion that ones own body is private and they should be able to show themselves naked to whomever they choose (or don't choose), but if that's the case then why do we force people to undress in front of the other gender? Undressing naked in front of a girl would make me just as uncomfortable as undressing naked in front of a man (actually, the man might make me MORE uncomfortable). Who decided that girls have to be okay with undressing in front of other girls? Their parents, probably, as that's who taught them that kind of modesty. I'm just saying that the entire situation is muddled with double and triple standards. I think there ought to be individual changing rooms [I]regardless[/I] of the situation of there being a trans girl in the locker room, because I don't think anybody should be forced to reveal oneself naked to another person, regardless of their gender. Hell, I don't even use urinals in public bathrooms.[/QUOTE] I'm just wondering, why do you find it more uncomfortable if you are a male yourself, to undress infront of a male? As long as they don't have individual changing booths for highschool PE, thats always how it's been, no one should be forced to see something that makes the uncomfortable, for people like you they usually have PE taken off the course or get an exemption to do it with clothes, that is what this 'girl' should do. [editline]4th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Samiam22;49043932]This is a school changing room. There aren't going to be any 50-year-old transexuals in it. And even then, why are you assuming that everyone's going to look at "hairy ass and balls" in the changing room? Even cis men don't do that. I certainly don't look at other people when I'm getting changed in the locker room. There is nothing stopping cis people from being old and hairy, you know.[/QUOTE] Because man... Weird shit makes people uncomfortable, If I were to see a naked 50 year old transexual no matter what, even though I would immediately look away, it would scar me for that day.

[QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49043942]...or get an exemption to do it with clothes, that is what this [B][I]'girl'[/I] [/B]should do.[/QUOTE] Really?

[QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49043942]I'm just wondering, why do you find it more uncomfortable if you are a male yourself, to undress infront of a male? As long as they don't have individual changing booths for highschool PE, thats always how it's been, no one should be forced to see something that makes the uncomfortable, for people like you they usually have PE taken off the course or get an exemption to do it with clothes, that is what this 'girl' should do.[/QUOTE] I don't know. I feel like other guys judge me more than girls do. Or maybe I don't care what girls think at this point because I have a girlfriend and I'm not on the market anymore. People like me? Typically in highschool I just sucked it up (though I did skip a lot and I never actually got naked because nobody ever showered). But I think that anybody uncomfortable getting changed around anyone should be given special accommodation to change in private. At the very least they can use a bathroom stall. But I don't think that they should force the person they're uncomfortable around to change THEIR preferred lifestyle. [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49043942]Because man... Weird shit makes people uncomfortable, If I were to see a naked 50 year old transexual no matter what, even though I would immediately look away, it would scar me for that day.[/QUOTE] Have you ever been to a public pool?

Blue Meanie, you can't just use feelings-based arguments, because it works the other way. The trans person seriously and honestly believes they are the other gender than they're born as, and they're going to be just as hurt at not being able to live as their believed gender, than people like you will be when they get to.

[QUOTE=Marceline;49043759]I don't care if he thinks he's a damn submarine, and I'm sure as heck not going to submerge beneath the ocean waves for hours on end.[/QUOTE] Ah, yes, the ol' "mock trans people by saying a witty joke along the lines of 'I'm a naval warship check you're privilege xd'"

Can't wait to see parents flipping out, because 90% of school policy is dictated by parents flipping shit out There would be a lot less discomfort in the world if men and women weren't so self conscious about being seen naked, Its not like being paranoid about it to pathalogical levels hasn't caused tons and tons of grief and suffering today....

[QUOTE=Sableye;49044072]Can't wait to see parents flipping out, because 90% of school policy is dictated by parents flipping shit out[/QUOTE] parents can flip out at the school board but the federal government doesn't give a fuuuuuuck

Aren't locker rooms/bathrooms separated by sex and not gender? If the person still has male genitalia, then they should use the male facilities.

[QUOTE=DuCT;49044161]Aren't locker rooms/bathrooms separated by sex and not gender? If the person still has male genitalia, then they should use the male facilities.[/QUOTE] Facilities are separated by law; plain and simple

[QUOTE=Sportsfreak.;49043544]I go to this school, the kid they are talking about actually lives near me aswell. He still has his balls which is why the girls wont let him change. He has his own private changing room at school in the Nurse's office. If you guys would like to know anymore real information about this I would be glad to fill you in.[/QUOTE] Well, the fact she still has her balls makes the school have some better argument, especially the actual girl students in the locker room. I really dont like situations like this, on one hand(I read your posts on the first page) she announced in middle school, been going with it since then and is now at the end of high school, and cant transition because she isnt 18. I mean this does seem like someone whos very comitted to it, but just hasnt gone through the transition. The school has been calling her a she, she plays on the girls teams, and she uses the girls bathrooms already. But the fact she still has her balls and cock I really dont think its fair to force the girls in the locker room to just accept the fact she can change with them. Its like none of them matter, only this 1 person. Which isnt how it should be at all. Its 100% fair that the girls dont like it, at the end of the day its still pretty much just a guy(biologically) with a dick and balls wanting to change with girls. Thats how the girls seem too see it, and they arent exactly wrong. It just really sucks because its making two people with valid claims feel shitty one way or another depending on the action taken, and it looks like all the other girls didnt get what they want. If this was like, She just announced this year then id be saying she deserves fuck all, but from the looks of it, shes been committed since middle school.

[QUOTE=KillRay;49041278]While a good thing, I've always been worried abut the bullying that might/will arise from these situations, being high school[/QUOTE] She's ten times more likely to be bullied in the men's locker room. [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Blue Meanie;49043519]Why the hell does everyone think girls should have to remove their clothing in front of someone who (in their head) switched genders, possibly with taking certain medicines to seem more feminine and literally could have done it for any number of reasons in their head which are unconfirmed? I'm sorry but this is weird as hell, a lot of locker rooms don't even have stalls unless their is a toilet part of it. I know most people probably disagree with me, I don't know why though, I don't know why something like this that is weird as fuck gets allowed in a highschool full of kids. This weird shit is not some 'learning to accept' bullshit, it's girls getting forced to be in an extremely uncomfortable situation, what a fucking disgrace. .[/QUOTE] 2 Gay men kissing may make a lot of people uncomfortable, does that mean we should ban gay men from kissing in public?

[QUOTE=Aldawolf;49044183] 2 Gay men kissing may make a lot of people uncomfortable, does that mean we should ban gay men from kissing in public?[/QUOTE] We should get rid of those negroes at highschools too. Think about what it'd be like for a regular couple of white boys having to shower with one of those? Can't they use their own private room? [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] (this is sarcasm but I bet someone's gonna take it seriously anyways) [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] I mean honest to god. Replace "transgender" with "jew", "black", "gay" or some other minority, and you really notice how shitty you happen to sound.

[QUOTE=Sportsfreak.;49043742]I grew up with HIM I was friends with HIM and his younger Brother they live in my neighborhood. All he did was simply change his name from a mans name to the feminine version of it and wear girls clothes. He is a boy until he is over 18 and get's the transplant.[/QUOTE]You probably weren't friends with her if you act like this. I can't imagine many people would want to be friends with someone being willfully ignorant and disrespectful towards them. You know nothing about what trans people go through, what its like, or how to actually respect them. Being 18, getting reassignment surgery, those are not requirement for being trans.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49044174]Well, the fact she still has her balls makes the school have some better argument, especially the actual girl students in the locker room. I really dont like situations like this, on one hand(I read your posts on the first page) she announced in middle school, been going with it since then and is now at the end of high school, and cant transition because she isnt 18. I mean this does seem like someone whos very comitted to it, but just hasnt gone through the transition. The school has been calling her a she, she plays on the girls teams, and she uses the girls bathrooms already. But the fact she still has her balls and cock I really dont think its fair to force the girls in the locker room to just accept the fact she can change with them. Its like none of them matter, only this 1 person. Which isnt how it should be at all. Its 100% fair that the girls dont like it, at the end of the day its still pretty much just a guy(biologically) with a dick and balls wanting to change with girls. Thats how the girls seem too see it, and they arent exactly wrong. It just really sucks because its making two people with valid claims feel shitty one way or another depending on the action taken, and it looks like all the other girls didnt get what they want. If this was like, She just announced this year then id be saying she deserves fuck all, but from the looks of it, shes been committed since middle school.[/QUOTE] She has transitioned; hormonally (AFAIK) and by simply saying "I'm a girl". One doesn't need to surgery to be transgender

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;49044221]We should get rid of those negroes at highschools too. Think about what it'd be like for a regular couple of white boys having to shower with one of those? Can't they use their own private room? [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] (this is sarcasm but I bet someone's gonna take it seriously anyways) [editline]3rd November 2015[/editline] I mean honest to god. Replace "transgender" with "jew", "black", "gay" or some other minority, and you really notice how shitty you happen to sound.[/QUOTE] No no no, THIS time it's justified because __

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49044254]She has transitioned; hormonally (AFAIK) and by simply saying "I'm a girl". One doesn't need to surgery to be transgender[/QUOTE] My argument I guess isnt really if shes transgender or not, its the fact she still has a dick and balls and that is understandably a problem for girls in a locker room at a high school. I do think shes transgender.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49044329]My argument I guess isnt really if shes transgender or not, its the fact she still has a dick and balls and that is understandably a problem for girls in a locker room at a high school. I do think shes transgender.[/QUOTE] I said before: [quote]I really don't get why. Even if you get the surgery, the penis is still there, it's just been ripped inside out. I think people ought to be uncomfortable being naked around ANYONE, regardless of gender. It's just totally arbitrary to choose "I'm afraid of being around dick". Even if that dick is totally not interested in you in any way and doesn't even see you sexually or even attractive. But once again, what if a lesbian girl was in the class, and was very interested in a girl. What if she got off watching this other girl shower at school everyday. Nobody can stop her. What's the girl who is, by product of being in the American public school system, being forced to be the eye candy of this girl, going to do? She can tell her off, but it would be unthinkable for the administration to kick the lesbian girl out of the locker room. They'd simply tell her "Just don't shower around her"[/quote]