Feds Order Chicago School to Allow Locker Room Access for Transgender Student - Polidicks

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49044329]My argument I guess isnt really if shes transgender or not, its the fact she still has a dick and balls and that is understandably a problem for girls in a locker room at a high school. I do think shes transgender.[/QUOTE]Its a highschool lockerroom. Half of them at least have likely had sex and know what a dick is. Their minds won't break and their world view destroyed if they see a dick.

I don't know what kind of fucked up high school you guys went to, but guys didn't whip around their dicks and ladies didn't flash their bare breasts to each other in my high school locker rooms.

I can't really imagine a shared shower room/change room, I've seen shared bathrooms but they are always just a toilet with a lock on them and in the rare case that it isn't people are usually polite enough to wait outside while the lady or gentlemen does whatever they are doing.

[QUOTE=Boaraes;49044053]Ah, yes, the ol' "mock trans people by saying a witty joke along the lines of 'I'm a naval warship check you're privilege xd'"[/QUOTE] It's an easy way to spot idiots that don't want to outright say they think trans people are freaks, so there's a slight benefit of finding which people's opinions I should ignore.

[QUOTE=Banhfunbags;49044563]I don't know what kind of fucked up high school you guys went to, but guys didn't whip around their dicks and ladies didn't flash their bare breasts to each other in my high school locker rooms.[/QUOTE] How did you guys figure out which one was the straightest without a good old fashioned gentleman's sword fighting tournament?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;49044352]I said before:[/QUOTE] People arent all you, guess thats all there is too it. Is it really so strange some people are uncomfortable with other peoples privates they have no interest in? Especially the opposites sex in high school? Sure plenty of kids have sex in high school and dont care, plenty of others do. Thing is, apparently they cant matter.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49044866]People arent all you, guess thats all there is too it. Is it really so strange some people are uncomfortable with other peoples privates they have no interest in? Especially the opposites sex in high school? Sure plenty of kids have sex in high school and dont care, plenty of others do. Thing is, apparently they cant matter.[/QUOTE] Instead of saying "people are uncomfortable, we need to protect them from feeling like that," why don't we just do what we did with black people and gay people and [i]push people towards feeling less uncomfortable through understanding[/i]? I was in theatre in high school and I regularly had to get into costume around gay men. Was I uncomfortable? At first, maybe, and then I realized that there was no reason to be because I wasn't interested in them anyways and because the public perception of gays as crazy sexual deviants was shot out of the sky through huge social movements. Let's do the same for trans people. Would you prevent a woman with an oversized clitoris from changing in the same room? She looks like a man down there. It's uncomfortable for the other girls. What about an obese girl? It's uncomfortable for the other girls to look at her, she should be moved away. At some point, protecting the comfort of the "normal" people begins to impinge on the rights of the "unusual" people. If the Federal Government can recognize that, everyone else should start realizing the same.

I am really confused and don't get the whole transgender thing and I don't know if I have a bad mindset on this but I kinda support just either, whatever physical gender you are is where you go, or trans having their own thing. I'm reading this thread and it's just confusing how it can be justified and I just don't understand this topic at all [editline]4th November 2015[/editline] it just feels like there's so much that goes awry l, I mean your could suffer from certain complexes and be confused or maybe you really are a girl in your mind and think and act like that, or maybe your just creepy and wanna say you're a girl when you're a guy like I feel there's so much ambiguity to this and it's so confusing. I don't view trans as a bad thing, but I mean I just think it's weird and everybody should be comfortable not just regular people but I don't know how do you please everyone

[QUOTE=Chaseymusica;49045094]I am really confused and don't get the whole transgender thing and I don't know if I have a bad mindset on this but I kinda support just either, whatever physical gender you are is where you go, or trans having their own thing. I'm reading this thread and it's just confusing how it can be justified and I just don't understand this topic at all[/QUOTE] In short, someone who's transgender is simply someone whose gender identity is different from their biological sex. Allowing things like these makes transgender folks feel more comfortable about themselves and their body (whether or not that's pre or post surgery). [QUOTE=Chaseymusica;49045094] it just feels like there's so much that goes awry l, I mean your could suffer from certain complexes and be confused or maybe you really are a girl in your mind and think and act like that, or maybe your just creepy and wanna say you're a girl when you're a guy like I feel there's so much ambiguity to this and it's so confusing.[/QUOTE] There's been studies on this. Plenty of them. The simple answer is that their brains are naturally wired more like the gender they identify as, rather than the gender dictated by the sex organs they were born with.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;49044920]Instead of saying "people are uncomfortable, we need to protect them from feeling like that," why don't we just do what we did with black people and gay people and [i]push people towards feeling less uncomfortable through understanding[/i]? I was in theatre in high school and I regularly had to get into costume around gay men. Was I uncomfortable? At first, maybe, and then I realized that there was no reason to be because I wasn't interested in them anyways and because the public perception of gays as crazy sexual deviants was shot out of the sky through huge social movements. Let's do the same for trans people. Would you prevent a woman with an oversized clitoris from changing in the same room? She looks like a man down there. It's uncomfortable for the other girls. What about an obese girl? It's uncomfortable for the other girls to look at her, she should be moved away. At some point, protecting the comfort of the "normal" people begins to impinge on the rights of the "unusual" people. If the Federal Government can recognize that, everyone else should start realizing the same.[/QUOTE] Theres a very big difference between being gay, black, or any race/sexuality, vs showing your genitals in a locking room. How can you even compare lol? That stuff makes people uncomfortable and there really isnt anything wrong with that at all. Why dont you start going showing your parents your junk, I mean why be uncomfortable? Why not around your friends?

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49045134]Theres a very big difference between being gay, black, or any race/sexuality, vs showing your genitals in a locking room. How can you even compare lol? That stuff makes people uncomfortable and there really isnt anything wrong with that at all. Why dont you start going showing your parents your junk, I mean why be uncomfortable? Why not around your friends?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=.Isak.;49044920]Instead of saying "people are uncomfortable, we need to protect them from feeling like that," why don't we just do what we did with black people and gay people and [i]push people towards feeling less uncomfortable through understanding[/i]? I was in theatre in high school and I regularly had to get into costume around gay men. Was I uncomfortable? At first, maybe, and then I realized that there was no reason to be because I wasn't interested in them anyways and because the public perception of gays as crazy sexual deviants was shot out of the sky through huge social movements. Let's do the same for trans people. Would you prevent a woman with an oversized clitoris from changing in the same room? She looks like a man down there. It's uncomfortable for the other girls. What about an obese girl? It's uncomfortable for the other girls to look at her, she should be moved away. At some point, protecting the comfort of the "normal" people begins to impinge on the rights of the "unusual" people. If the Federal Government can recognize that, everyone else should start realizing the same.[/QUOTE] Just read it again. Your strange and fear-ridden associations regarding nudity are a problem that can be treated through education, like anybody else. Eventually people can come to learn that seeing other people naked is in fact, harmless. We did it for thousands of years.

In reality, the picture of a little man and woman stand for penis-room and vagina-room, but ofcourse you can't just put a picture of a penis or a vagina on the door. It does't matter what gender you identify as. If you have a penis, you go in the penis-room. It doesn't matter how badly you want to get a vagina in the future, or whether you wear women's clothing. It's irrelevant. Penises go in the penis-room. You complain about your wishes of going in the vagina-room don't get respected, eventhough you wear the name and the clothes of the vagina? How about you first learn to respect the wishes of vaginas to not be confronted with a penis when they are in the vagina-room. You are not the center of the world and you cannot expect the world to accomodate the wishes of a single person if those wishes end up seriously discomforting everyone else.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49045134]Theres a very big difference between being gay, black, or any race/sexuality, vs showing your genitals in a locking room. How can you even compare lol?[/QUOTE] He didn't compare them, he used them as an example of past discomfort being tackled by pressing the issue rather than tip-toeing around the problem. [QUOTE]Why dont you start going showing your parents your junk, I mean why be uncomfortable? Why not around your friends?[/QUOTE] He didn't remotely suggest anyone do anything like that, but nice attempt to put words in other's mouths.

[QUOTE=V12US;49045230]In reality, the picture of a little man and woman stand for penis-room and vagina-room, but ofcourse you can't just put a picture of a penis or a vagina on the door. It does't matter what gender you identify as. If you have a penis, you go in the penis-room. It doesn't matter how badly you want to get a vagina in the future, or whether you wear women's clothing. It's irrelevant. Penises go in the penis-room. You complain about your wishes of going in the vagina-room don't get respected, eventhough you wear the name and the clothes of the vagina? How about you first learn to respect the wishes of vaginas to not be confronted with a penis when they are in the vagina-room. You are not the center of the world and you cannot expect the world to accomodate the wishes of a single person if those wishes end up seriously discomforting everyone else.[/QUOTE] Except telling that to a transgender person makes all of their efforts and sacrifices look vain and can push them to suicide. You've got to think about who they are and not what's between their legs. In an extreme case, even after sex reassignment surgery you could STILL have someone tell you that you still belong with the boys because "you were born as one". That is utterly ridiculous and insulting to say the least. You need to understand trans folks are very sensitive about this topic, and can really traumatize them.

[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;49045259]You've got to think about who they are and not what's between their legs.[/quote] No, I don't have to think about "who they are" at all. I don't care. In a society with millions of people, you cannot expect everyone to be treated like a super special snowflake individual. We have these rules about male and female changing rooms because men and women feel uncomfortable with undressing themselves in front of people of the other sex. You can't tell girls to just deal with a penis in their dressing room, because the person it's attached to calls themselves female. We created dressing rooms for different sexes exactly to avoid this issue. [QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;49045259]In an extreme case, even after sex reassignment surgery you could STILL have someone tell you that you still belong with the boys because "you were born as one". That is utterly ridiculous and insulting to say the least. You need to understand trans folks are very sensitive about this topic, and can really traumatize them.[/QUOTE] Utterly irrelevant to this discussion.

[QUOTE=TheDrunkenOne;49045259]Interesting quote.[/QUOTE] It sounds like your saying that we should have a third room? because you have a penis but your trying to go into the vagina room. so instead why not just have a gender neutral toilet that can be used for both while having the two different rooms. although the disability toilets kinda fills that role already.

[QUOTE=V12US;49045396]No, I don't have to think about "who they are" at all. I don't care. In a society with millions of people, you cannot expect everyone to be treated like a super special snowflake individual. We have these rules about male and female changing rooms because men and women feel uncomfortable with undressing themselves in front of people of the other sex. You can't tell girls to just deal with a penis in their dressing room, because the person it's attached to calls themselves female. We created dressing rooms for different sexes exactly to avoid this issue. Utterly irrelevant to this discussion.[/QUOTE] lol no if shit was made because people get uncomfortable then we'd still have racial segregation both issues is people uncomfortable with other people just being what they are and in both issues the problem is people having shit mentality about it because just like why should people be uncomfortable about skin colour, why should anyone be uncomfortable about sexual organs?

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;49045582]lol no if shit was made because people get uncomfortable then we'd still have racial segregation both issues is people uncomfortable with other people just being what they are and in both issues the problem is people having shit mentality about it because just like why should people be uncomfortable about skin colour, why should anyone be uncomfortable about sexual organs?[/QUOTE] Wasting your time replying to him, every thread about trans stuff he posts in he posts the same dumb shit until someone gives a good indepth reply then he just vanishes and doesn't post in the thread again.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;49045582]lol no if shit was made because people get uncomfortable then we'd still have racial segregation both issues is people uncomfortable with other people just being what they are and in both issues the problem is people having shit mentality about it because just like why should people be uncomfortable about skin colour, why should anyone be uncomfortable about sexual organs?[/QUOTE] Sexuality and racism have nothing to do with each other. You cannot justify this whole debacle by comparing it to racial segregation. It's like arguing racism against pedophiles because people don't recognize their love for children. [editline]4th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Tomo Takino;49045608]Wasting your time replying to him, every thread about trans stuff he posts in he posts the same dumb shit until someone gives a good indepth reply then he just vanishes and doesn't post in the thread again.[/QUOTE] No, I just don't see the point in sticking around for ten+ pages after everyone's already made their points. This is a discussion, not a debate. You don't "win" a discussion.

[QUOTE=V12US;49045617]Sexuality and racism have nothing to do with each other. You cannot justify this whole debacle by comparing it to racial segregation. It's like arguing racism against pedophiles because people don't recognize their love for children.[/QUOTE] dude this is about being trans[B]gender[/B], gender and sexual orientation are different things

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;49045661]dude this is about being trans[B]gender[/B], gender and sexual orientation are different things[/QUOTE] No, it's about penises in women's dressing rooms. There wouldn't be a fraction of the drama if this person didn't still have his man-bits. You're trying to obfuscate things by turning it into a matter of progressiveness, when in reality it's about girls being upset that they have to deal with a halfnaked man in a room where they are changing clothes.

[QUOTE=V12US;49045692]No, it's about penises in women's dressing rooms. There wouldn't be a fraction of the drama if this person didn't still have his man-bits.[/QUOTE] If you wanted a legitimate discussion you'd show some respect to the person in question by using the right pronouns in the first place.

[QUOTE=V12US;49045617]No, I just don't see the point in sticking around for ten+ pages after everyone's already made their points. This is a discussion, not a debate. You don't "win" a discussion.[/QUOTE] People make their points in the first few pages, then you blunder in and make the same point over and over despite getting many replies about how garbage your point is. It being a discussion doesn't mean ignore what everyone says to stubbornly hold onto your opinion no matter what. I wouldn't have even mentioned it but you do it in every trans thread I see you in. And that's quite alot as I tend to read them.

[QUOTE=V12US;49045617]Sexuality and racism have nothing to do with each other. You cannot justify this whole debacle by comparing it to racial segregation. It's like arguing racism against pedophiles because people don't recognize their love for children.[/QUOTE] What is intersectionality

[QUOTE=V12US;49045692]No, it's about penises in women's dressing rooms. There wouldn't be a fraction of the drama if this person didn't still have his man-bits. You're trying to obfuscate things by turning it into a matter of progressiveness, when in reality it's about girls being upset that they have to deal with a halfnaked man in a room where they are changing clothes.[/QUOTE] nah its about transgender, there wouldn't be drama if she was born a girl with a dick

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;49045781]nah its about transgender, there wouldn't be drama if she was born a girl with a dick[/QUOTE] Wouldn't she then be a Hermaphrodite then?

[QUOTE=Passing;49045840]Wouldn't she then be a Hermaphrodite then?[/QUOTE] She/he would have to have both female and male sex organs to be a hermaphrodite.

Why do I feel like this whole thing is a shitstorm simply because no one here can stop calling eachother "Transphobic" or "Overly-Progressive". I'm paraphrasing here but goddamn, both sides have a good point. I'm in the camp that "If you have a penis you go to the men's room.", but at the same time I also feel like there is a solution that works for everyone. We simply just haven't found one yet.

[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;49045234]He didn't compare them, he used them as an example of past discomfort being tackled by pressing the issue rather than tip-toeing around the problem. He didn't remotely suggest anyone do anything like that, but nice attempt to put words in other's mouths.[/QUOTE] Was pretty late and made a lazy example. That said, that persons trying to make it seem like being uncomfertable as high school girls around what is still biologically a male with a penis and balls changing in their locking room in front of them is just something that is lacking tolerance. As if those high school girls are some how in the wrong and should just tolerate and understand, for this 1 person. Where as apparently you just cannot be tolerant and understanding of the fact this person is making EVERY girl uncomfortable(going by that poster who goes to the school) So how is putting her in with them and changing with them even a good step forward when every single one of them are opposed to it because it makes them uncomfortable? What are they just gonna be super nice now? Do you think they are magically going to just be less uncomfortable now thats its being forced on them? And unlike something like high school theater which I have never heard being mandatory(in the usa at least) gym/P.E and changing in the locker room generally are, so this isnt so much of a choice thing. In fact, the 3 schools I went to, all 3 marked you down if you didnt change for gym. If a penis and a ballsack are making teenaged high school girls uncomfortable in their changing room at school then thats a pretty god damn valid complaint. Some people really cant get this through their heads and really think this is something that needs to be forced and that those people should just be more "accepting and tolerant" when surprise surprise, the side asking for that cant show it at all.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49046191]Was pretty late and made a lazy example. That said, that persons trying to make it seem like being uncomfertable as high school girls around what is still biologically a male with a penis and balls changing in their locking room in front of them is just something that is lacking tolerance. As if those high school girls are some how in the wrong and should just tolerate and understand, for this 1 person. Where as apparently you just cannot be tolerant and understanding of the fact this person is making EVERY girl uncomfortable(going by that poster who goes to the school) So how is putting her in with them and changing with them even a good step forward when every single one of them are opposed to it because it makes them uncomfortable? What are they just gonna be super nice now? Do you think they are magically going to just be less uncomfortable now thats its being forced on them? And unlike something like high school theater which I have never heard being mandatory(in the usa at least) gym/P.E and changing in the locker room generally are, so this isnt so much of a choice thing. In fact, the 3 schools I went to, all 3 marked you down if you didnt change for gym. If a penis and a ballsack are making teenaged high school girls uncomfortable in their changing room at school then thats a pretty god damn valid complaint. Some people really cant get this through their heads and really think this is something that needs to be forced and that those people should just be more "accepting and tolerant" when surprise surprise, the side asking for that cant show it at all.[/QUOTE] But i think the argument goes back to "if they're not comfortable with it, they can change in private" What's really making them uncomfortable, seeing a penis in the locker room, or being seen by what they think is a boy in the locker room? If it's the former, then that's just an irrational fear. If it's the latter then they need to realize that she's not a boy, and she's likely not even attracted to you. I'm not comfortable going to the locker room at a public pool and being around old naked guys. Do I tell them they have to get out? No I just go change in private