Feds Order Chicago School to Allow Locker Room Access for Transgender Student - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ASIC;49067248]Why did he take a picture of it though?[/QUOTE] to illustrate that keeping those born female in the women's restroom isn't necessarily going to make people more comfortable?

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49067259]to illustrate that keeping those born female in the women's restroom isn't necessarily going to make people more comfortable?[/QUOTE] It's really kind of a fallacious point though. Literally no one would know and/or care if that person went in the men's restroom. It would be like someone posting a picture of a guy perving on women in the women's restroom to show that men shouldn't be allowed in.

For hopefully obvious reasons forcing that man to go in the womens bathroom is absurd. However it becomes more problematic if one is in the middle ground where you are still commonly known as a man and still mostly look like a man. Now its awkward to use both the mens and the womens room.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49067526]It's really kind of a fallacious point though. Literally no one would know and/or care if that person went in the men's restroom. It would be like someone posting a picture of a guy perving on women in the women's restroom to show that men shouldn't be allowed in.[/QUOTE] but the whole point is that people are saying that bathroom use should be strictly divided based on sex this is literally just to demonstrate the flaw with that argument

This whole situation is just sad, I hope science progresses to the point where people won't have to go this.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;49053092]those girls look super comfortable with the guy in the girls bathrooms. :downs: but it's cool, coz maybe he identifies himself as a girl.[/QUOTE] It's kind of amazing how much you proved Jelly's point

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;49067259]to illustrate that keeping those born female in the women's restroom isn't necessarily going to make people more comfortable?[/QUOTE] Isn't taking a picture in a public bathroom also going to make people uncomfortable?

[QUOTE=ASIC;49073843]Isn't taking a picture in a public bathroom also going to make people uncomfortable?[/QUOTE] Yeah but quite clearly thats not whats bothering those ladies.

[QUOTE=ASIC;49073843]Isn't taking a picture in a public bathroom also going to make people uncomfortable?[/QUOTE] [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sSRCYPDk_g[/media] "they're all friends or family"

I don't really understand why Trans people are supposed to be here to make you comfortable. It's not my job to assure that your subjective opinion on what you find acceptable about my transgenderism is what I'm doing. If it makes you uncomfortable, that's [I]your[/I] problem. Sort your own shit out, and [I]get the fuck over it, you big baby.[/I] [t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/101st_Airborne_at_Little_Rock_Central_High.jpg[/t] When 9 black kids were admitted to a white high school and had to be escorted by the fucking soldiers to do that, do you think all the white people were comfortable? No, they weren't. So I guess the modern answer is that the black kids all should have gone home for the sake of the white students comfort. To them it was completely reasonable to not want a black in the class. But we did it anyway, and look at where we are now. Kind of seems like telling people to get over their shit because social progress matters more is the right move to me.

The reason we force integrated blacks and whites is because of the underlying arguments, not some arbitrary idea. The arguments revolved around the separation of blacks and whites being based on unfounded bias and not fact. Black people were in fact people just like white people, and therefore deserved the same exact rights. To differentiate a black from a white based on skin color was illogical. You can't just point to one group and say, "Hey, we did it with them. So we should do it with this other group to." The same arguments that applied to integration of whites and blacks doesn't apply to transgendered individuals, especially pre-transitioned transgendered people. Whites and blacks had no meaningful differences that would logically allow for separation because the rights in question were based on being a human being, and black people are just as much human as white people are. If we were to take this argument and apply it to, say, a pre-transitioned transgender person and a non-trans person, then we see that the same argument doesn't apply. A person who is mentally a woman and physically a man is not identical to a person who is both mentally and physically a woman when it comes to sexually differentiation like bathrooms.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;49046592]Why cant the transgender just change in the stalls of shes so uncomfortable? You asking me long standing societal questions, shit thats been around longer than either of us have been alive. People just give a fuck and there really isnt much wrong with that concerning changing rooms/bathrooms to an extent, at the very least in schools.[/QUOTE] Just gonna leave this food for thought: Why does the transperson have to segregate themselves into a private stall or bathroom because if everyone else's feelings. Who decided that transperson is responsible for everyone else's feelings.

[QUOTE=sgman91;49074950]The reason we force integrated blacks and whites is because of the underlying arguments, not some arbitrary idea. The arguments revolved around the separation of blacks and whites being based on unfounded bias and not fact. Black people were in fact people just like white people, and therefore deserved the same exact rights. To differentiate a black from a white based on skin color was illogical.[/QUOTE] And in every single way that actually matters a trans person is the same as their identified gender. There is no logical reason to disallow trans people from using the correctly gendered locker other then "Eww I saw penis" or "Eww I saw vagina" which has less to do with them being trans and more with the outdated social taboo's we Americans have in regards to genitalia. [quote] You can't just point to one group and say, "Hey, we did it with them. So we should do it with this other group to." The same arguments that applied to integration of whites and blacks doesn't apply to transgendered individuals, especially pre-transitioned transgendered people.[/quote] Segregation in this context is quite comparable though. You cannot argue that there is a logical reason to disallow trans people into their correctly gendered locker room unless you're under ther notion that we're all perverts or that "I saw penis" is a valid reason to make us either use the wrongly gendered facility or use an entirely separate one. [quote] Whites and blacks had no meaningful differences that would logically allow for separation because the rights in question were based on being a human being, and black people are just as much human as white people are.[/quote] And what, pray tell, is the meaningful difference that segregates trans people from their identified gender that so disallows the use of the correct changing facilities? [quote] If we were to take this argument and apply it to, say, a pre-transitioned transgender person and a non-trans person, then we see that the same argument doesn't apply. A person who is mentally a woman and physically a man is not identical to a person who is both mentally and physically a woman when it comes to sexually differentiation like bathrooms.[/quote] The problem with this argument is when do you define someone as "sufficiently female" enough to use the correct facilities? How female someone looks is entirely subjective and segregation based on subjective criteria is a great way to enable and encourage discrimination.

That is amazing news. Really heart warming to see positive lgbt news from the US. To think Texas in the mean time is actually forcing girls into boys locker room and vise versa. Every school should get this ultimatum.

Honestly, there is no simple answer to this issue. No matter what you do, SOMEBODY is going to get their feelings hurt. The trick is to respect everyone's rights. Just forcing acceptance will cause complications but you also can't make her feel like a freak or outcast. If anybody has a better idea than this I'm all ears.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;49075384]Honestly, there is no simple answer to this issue. No matter what you do, SOMEBODY is going to get their feelings hurt. The trick is to respect everyone's rights. Just forcing acceptance will cause complications but you also can't make her feel like a freak or outcast. If anybody has a better idea than this I'm all ears.[/QUOTE] I don't really believe that there's always some magic solution that pleases everyone, and I don't think one is here either. Personally I'd like it if there were some private option that everyone could take because I was extremely uncomfortable changing in a locker room around guys in school, although I guess I'm biased a bit there since I'm trans, but y'know, discomfort is nowhere near uncommon there. I mean we've got changing rooms in almost every clothing and costume store out there, just this past halloween I was in a costume store and they had one even though it was just about made of cardboard and cloth. If nearly every store can have one, why can't schools? Although long term, I'd still prefer a breakdown of nudity taboos and for everyone to just get comfy with being naked around others, so, I guess maybe not. Anyway, to me the solution actually is simple. Keep doing this until nobody gives a shit anymore. The idea that we're trying to push here is that transgendered people are effectively no different from someone else of their gender in every way that matters. You don't get that idea across by treating us different. I don't really think that white people and black people took to sharing bathrooms and schools too well at first either, now we don't think anything about it.

[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;49078182]I don't really believe that there's always some magic solution that pleases everyone, and I don't think one is here either. Personally I'd like it if there were some private option that everyone could take because I was extremely uncomfortable changing in a locker room around guys in school, although I guess I'm biased a bit there since I'm trans, but y'know, discomfort is nowhere near uncommon there. I mean we've got changing rooms in almost every clothing and costume store out there, just this past halloween I was in a costume store and they had one even though it was just about made of cardboard and cloth. If nearly every store can have one, why can't schools? Although long term, I'd still prefer a breakdown of nudity taboos and for everyone to just get comfy with being naked around others, so, I guess maybe not. Anyway, to me the solution actually is simple. Keep doing this until nobody gives a shit anymore. The idea that we're trying to push here is that transgendered people are effectively no different from someone else of their gender in every way that matters. You don't get that idea across by treating us different. I don't really think that white people and black people took to sharing bathrooms and schools too well at first either, now we don't think anything about it.[/QUOTE] I'd prefer a breakdown of the taboo culture as well but this is America where everyone can voice how offended they are. There is nothing that won't "offend" somebody in this country. If we upheld censorship and/or segregation everytime somebody complains life would be bland and....well.....lifeless. I feel for the students who are uncomfortable but there comes a point when you need to get over it. This issue will not change or be addressed if we simply ignore it. As long as everyone's rights are respected I don't see a problem with trans using the restroom/changing room they identify with. We go to these rooms to conduct personal business, whether that be to go to the restroom or changing clothes in the locker room. We do not go to these rooms to socialize or flirt.