France’s highest court refuses to recognise 'neutral gender' as a category
255 replies, posted
[QUOTE=freaka;52193329]Yes the true horror of identifying as a male or a female is really hard. Especially hard when there are only two choices. Otherwise I can't wait until I can identify myself as a non existing object.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the good discussion that's been ongoing in this thread. I've learnt a lot, maybe you should read it all too, no need to be a dick especially about something you clearly don't understand. Conjecture about stuff like this is just insensitive and ignorant.
[QUOTE=Beetle179;52191057]News for you -- ALL gender is completely made up, by definition. It's just sets of roles and behaviors that, historically, we've said "people with penises like the color blue and trucks" and "people with vaginas like pink and perfume".[/QUOTE]
Sick of people peddling this horseshit. Gender is founded in actual psychological and physical differences. It's not a 'social construct'.
I don't really get why is important to separate sex and gender. (linguistically, they both mean the same in many countries)
In my eyes, sex/gender is a way of biologically categorizing a species. I don't feel that it's necessary to expand the categories.
However, this obviously doesn't mean that, for example, a biological man who feels like a woman should be discriminated against.
Does this view make sense to anyone else?
[QUOTE=Cabbage;52193377]Sick of people peddling this horseshit. Gender is founded in actual psychological and physical differences. It's not a 'social construct'.[/QUOTE]
This is largely caused by people seeing the phrase "gender norms are a social construct", and just totally omitting the "norms" part of that. Gender norms are certainly a social construct as different societies throughout history had different norms. From what I've read and understood at the very least Gender itself is an expression of hormonal differences (hence how someone with an imbalance can feel like they have the wrong body, and we can alter this via hormone therapy).
Beetle in particular is definitely talking about gender norms with the whole "blue and trucks/pink and dolls" stuff. None of that has anything to do with gender itself and more what we as a society place on that gender. Come on guys, please stop fucking up a simple phrase like "gender norms are a social construct", you're just feeding bigots more reasons to think the ~~(((left)))~~~ is dumb.
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52193691]I don't really get why is important to separate sex and gender. (linguistically, they both mean the same in many countries)
In my eyes, sex/gender is a way of biologically categorizing a species. I don't feel that it's necessary to expand the categories.
However, this obviously doesn't mean that, for example, a biological man who feels like a woman should be discriminated against.
Does this view make sense to anyone else?[/QUOTE]
It does seem like a view born from a language that doesn't actually have a full distinction between the words "sex" and "gender". They are separate concepts, one being the genetic and physiological component of your person (chromosomes and expressed genitals), the other being the mental component of your identity (I identify as male, which matches my body. Someone suffering gender dysphoria identifies the opposite gender to their sex).
Though it does seem weird to not have a word to differentiate the two properly to me :v:
[QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;52193244]In doing this you [B]contribute to potentially suicidal depression[/B] and at best ruin someone day, at worst y[B]ou are a small part in the reason someone kills themselves[/B]. Just think about that for a bit please.[/QUOTE]
I would write out a long, thought post about this, but my eyes are tearing up from laughing. You are full of such bullshit, my friend. So because there's someone who doesn't agree with your point of view, you literally tell them that they will make someone kill themselves if they use the wrong pronoun?
It's precisely this sort of nonscence that pushes people further and further way from accepting the idea of other genders, whatever they might be. Demanding to be treated differently than others and stating that if everyone simply doesn't play along with you, you could kill yourself(or any other over-the-top reaction) is ludicrous.
There are much, much better and smarter ways to say the same message you wanted to relay.
[QUOTE=Prism;52193862]I would write out a long, thought post about this, but my eyes are tearing up from laughing. You are full of such bullshit, my friend. So because there's someone who doesn't agree with your point of view, you literally tell them that they will make someone kill themselves if they use the wrong pronoun?
It's precisely this sort of nonscence that pushes people further and further way from accepting the idea of other genders, whatever they might be. Demanding to be treated differently than others and stating that if everyone simply doesn't play along with you, you could kill yourself(or any other over-the-top reaction) is ludicrous.
There are much, much better and smarter ways to say the same message you wanted to relay.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, there's a reason I didn't say it's the whole reason, instead "a small part". Someone not going to off themselves the second someone misgenders them, but when it's part of a far larger problem, it contributes.
I think you assume that being misgendered is just like me calling you the wrong gender. For a cis person, that's not really that hurtful, more of an annoyance.
For a trans person it's different. They have spent their whole lives dealing with the fact their body doesn't match up with the way they see themselves, and society trying to force them into being a person they aren't. They have to deal with a body which doesn't feel like their own causing an extreme sense of dissociation all of them time, when they're trying to work, when they're alone, when they're meant to be enjoying themselves. When someone misgenders them, it's basically hitting them where it hurts most, undermining any progress they had made to try and feel like they belong.
Trans people have incredibly high suicide rates because of how awful gender disphoria can be. You don't need to add to the problem. They aren't asking you to bend over backwards, they're asking that you change a single syllable in a sentence. Just because you don't like the fact that you are being incredibly hurtful to vulnerable people because you want to demonstrate an asinine point doesn't mean that's not what you're doing.
If you purposefully misgender someone, you are deliberately hurting another person in a way you can't understand.
Why is there always such a lack of basic respect and outright bigotry in threads about trans issues?
Like I'll be the first to admit that I'm quite ignorant about what it's like to be trans. I've only known a few trans people (that I knew were trans) and I can't say that I got to know them particularly well. I'll confess that the concept of gender fluidity is something that confuses me. But at the very least, I know that trans people are still [B]people[/B], and we don't just ignore or disregard people because we don't understand something about them.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;52191613]as off-putting as it may sound, your girlfriend is a borderline case and i don't think we should reform the entire legal system in such an extravagant way to accommodate her
[/QUOTE]
Like right here, "borderline case" is something that I see a lot in these threads, and it really rubs me the wrong way, because what you're basically saying is that BrickInHead's partner doesn't matter. Not only that, but you're commandeering scientific terminology to give that notion more legitimacy than it deserves. A borderline case in what? Which study proved that this person is an anomaly and should be completely disregarded?
[QUOTE=Nerfmaster000;52192131]Good, they shouldn't pander to Tumblr SJWs who yells there's more than 2 genders and gets triggered if you say otherwise.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=freaka;52193268]Good they came to the conclusion, There are only 2 genders.[/QUOTE]
These posts are particularly obtuse, short and dumb in what seems like a very bait-y way, but they are indicative of a problem in most of these threads; the idea that being trans is "tumblr SJW dolphinkin bullshit". All I really feel obligated to say is that you should remember that this isn't tumblr. You're on facepunch, where at the very least we treat each other with a modicum of respect. These people are telling you that being trans is more complicated than you're making out, and they'd know because most of the biggest posters in these threads actually are trans.
If you won't even listen to other facepunchers then I'm sorry but you really are a bigot.
People tend to forget that complex issues like transgender specifics (and like 90% of issues that are even discussed on this website) exist outside of the internet.
They get so tied to their "Tumblr SJW" rhetoric because they don't bother looking at anything besides their computer screen lol.
I don't know what it's like to be trans either but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend like it's any sort of hard work to refer to someone by their pronouns. If I get confused, most of the time I just use, y'know, their name.
[QUOTE=Cabbage;52193377]Sick of people peddling this horseshit. Gender is founded in actual psychological and physical differences. It's not a 'social construct'.[/QUOTE]
The same psychological and physical differences that say women are predisposed to being good dishwashers and men are predisposed to being good with powertools? Nah
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52192522]I never said trans people would do it to me, amigo! If you could find legit grounds to call me a bigot and a trans/homophobe, that'd be one thing, but you're taking what I'm saying completely out of context. Like literally, I don't think you've even read the entire conversation I've been having in this thread, and instead you just read that one post you quoted and called me a bigot. I said that people don't like being around stranger's genitals. Like, at all. Even behind a stall. But in a single gender bathroom, it's okay because guys understand each other like that, and the same with girls. They've all got the same junk, there's nothing awkward about it because we have things like stalls to keep it like that. But suddenly, when you've got people with one set of genitals in the same bathroom as the others, now it's awkward. That's all I said. I never said "an MTF trans person can't use the women's bathroom". I literally said, "it's based on what junk you've got." [b]What I was saying originally was relevant to the intersex/gender "neutral" shit from the OP. [/b]
BrickinHead said "all due respect i don't think it's an unreasonable request to respect the pronouns that a person prefers and let them use the bathroom they feel comfortable in. it's not difficult and something everyone should understand." This was in response to my first post, [b]which is the third post in the thread[/b], where I was talking about "gender neutrality" and not transgender-ism. Get your facts straight.He was implying that gender "neutral" people could use male or female restrooms regardless of their genital configuration. I said "No that's awkward" with the post you replied to just now and the one that that post was in response to. We were talking about gender "neutrality" because that is the topic of the OP.
Also previously you and Saturn called me a bigot and so forth. I'm not gonna lie, I legit typed a huge post about why you're wrong to do so, but I kept refreshing the preview to see how it looked and the page captcha'd me and I lost my post. I'm not gonna go to the lengths I went there, but essentially you're grasping at straws to call me a transphobe because you think that "I want to use my own words for somebody based on the sex they were born with," and "Trans people are weirdos and fags and I don't like them so we can't consider them people" are the same thing. I said the former. I believe that pronouns are bullshit because they're just words. I respect trans people's right to be whatever sex and gender they feel comfortable with, and I know they don't choose this. Nonetheless, I'm more comfortable referring to what I inherently see as a man/woman that is born feeling like they should be a woman/man.
I know this comparison won't be 1:1, so don't hold it THAT seriously, but I hope this helps you to see my point: Michael Jackson was born black. He had a skin disease (not to imply gender dysphoria is a disease) which caused his skin to turn white. This does not change the fact that he was African American. Translating that to the trans argument: Some people are born as male or female. They don't feel right like this, and so undergo various forms of therapy to change their sex, or to at least become comfortable with their gender in their body. This does not change the fact that they have the biology of the sex they changed from. Do you see what I mean?[/QUOTE]
You flat out stated you won't refer to people as they please because your right to call them whatever you want is more important to you.
You. Are. A. Bigot.
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52192550]I know what it means to be trans, I know that people don't choose to be trans. I understand transgender-ism, believe me. If I didn't, I wouldn't arguing about it in this thread right now.
Yeah, there are people who even kill themselves because they can't come to terms with their dysphoria. I literally mentioned in my second post in this thread ([url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1562924&p=52191621&viewfull=1#post52191621[/url]) that people with gender dysphoria have resources such as various forms of counseling, therapy, etc. to help them come to terms with their problem.
These people don't choose to have a problem, but they also can't choose what biological sex they are. A person born male will always be male. Like that wrestler I mentioned earlier, who was like 39 when he underwent hormone therapy and so wiped out his competition because he was essentially 100% man (bone, muscle, etc.-wise) against women. Even people who undergo therapy at a young age can't change the fact that they have X-sex DNA. Biologically, they are the sex they were born with.
I've been mentioning sex, not gender (or rather, I've been saying gender/sex, because gender is rooted in sex). A person can identify as being male or female gender, I never said they can't or shouldn't do that. I said that the legal system should identify them based on their biological sex, not their gender identity. You're going in the wrong direction in an effort to call me a bigot.[/QUOTE]
I mean you can't even get the facts of the case you're upset about right, so how much do you really expect anyone to take you seriously pal
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;52193997]Why is there always such a lack of basic respect and outright bigotry in threads about trans issues?.[/QUOTE]
actually the thread isn't about trans issues it's about gender neutrality, it got derailed into being about trans people
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194105]You flat out stated you won't refer to people as they please because your right to call them whatever you want is more important to you.
You. Are. A. Bigot.
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
I mean you can't even get the facts of the case you're upset about right, so how much do you really expect anyone to take you seriously pal[/QUOTE]
what facts do i not have right? explain them to me please.
also i'm going to refer to people as they please because i quite frankly don't care if it offends them. i outright said i don't care about political correctness. if i'm more comfortable referring to them as what i see them as, that's what i'm gonna do. and then either they'll go kill themselves if neonpie is correct, or more likely they'll say "wow that guy's a dick but i'm really not that upset about it lol" if they're a reasonable, non tumblr sjw person like pascall said
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194113]
what facts do i not have right? explain them to me please.
also i'm going to refer to people as they please because i quite frankly don't care if it offends them. i outright said i don't care about political correctness. if i'm more comfortable referring to them as what i see them as, that's what i'm gonna do. and then either they'll go kill themselves if neonpie is correct, or more likely they'll say "wow that guy's a dick but i'm really not that upset about it lol" if they're a reasonable, non tumblr sjw person like pascall said[/QUOTE]
So that just makes you an asshole then. Cool! Thanks for clearing it all up for us.
[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52193691]I don't really get why is important to separate sex and gender. (linguistically, they both mean the same in many countries)
In my eyes, sex/gender is a way of biologically categorizing a species. I don't feel that it's necessary to expand the categories.
However, this obviously doesn't mean that, for example, a biological man who feels like a woman should be discriminated against.
Does this view make sense to anyone else?[/QUOTE]
because they dont always align. if they always aligned there would be no distinction.
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194113]actually the thread isn't about trans issues it's about gender neutrality, it got derailed into being about trans people
what facts do i not have right? explain them to me please.
also i'm going to refer to people as they please because i quite frankly don't care if it offends them. i outright said i don't care about political correctness. if i'm more comfortable referring to them as what i see them as, that's what i'm gonna do. and then either they'll go kill themselves if neonpie is correct, or more likely they'll say "wow that guy's a dick but i'm really not that upset about it lol" if they're a reasonable, non tumblr sjw person like pascall said[/QUOTE]
yeah dude i too deal with psychologically tormented people by exacerbating the exact problem they're dealing with
wtf
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194113]actually the thread isn't about trans issues it's about gender neutrality, it got derailed into being about trans people
what facts do i not have right? explain them to me please.
also i'm going to refer to people as they please because i quite frankly don't care if it offends them. i outright said i don't care about political correctness. if i'm more comfortable referring to them as what i see them as, that's what i'm gonna do. and then either they'll go kill themselves if neonpie is correct, or more likely they'll say "wow that guy's a dick but i'm really not that upset about it lol" if they're a reasonable, non tumblr sjw person like pascall said[/QUOTE]
Or you induce gender dysphoria in them and make them very stressed, anxious, etc. A very real phenomenon that has nothing to do with this make-believe "tumblr sjw" idea you hate.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194113]actually the thread isn't about trans issues it's about gender neutrality, it got derailed into being about trans people
what facts do i not have right? explain them to me please.
also i'm going to refer to people as they please because i quite frankly don't care if it offends them. i outright said i don't care about political correctness. if i'm more comfortable referring to them as what i see them as, that's what i'm gonna do. and then either they'll go kill themselves if neonpie is correct, or more likely they'll say "wow that guy's a dick but i'm really not that upset about it lol" if they're a reasonable, non tumblr sjw person like pascall said[/QUOTE]
I think you're a 60 year old woman with a labia that hangs down to the floor. That's who you are to me. That's who I see you as. That's what I'm going to call you as from now on, because fuck you, I don't care about what you feel or think. If you get upset for one fucking second, just remember, this is how you treat people.
You don't even have the transitionary stages described right.
[QUOTE]The wrestler you're talking about is Mack Beggs, who is actually female-to-male, and was forced to fight against women despite wanting to fight other men. Because the system refused to recognize his transgender status.[/QUOTE]
You're ignorant as fuck and proud of it
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52194127]yeah dude i too deal with psychologically tormented people by exacerbating the exact problem they're dealing with
wtf[/QUOTE]
Being a good person is SUCH a hard thing though, why should I put in effort to moderate the slurry of words coming out of my mouth?? /s
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194145]I think you're a 60 year old woman with a labia that hangs down to the floor. That's who you are to me. That's who I see you as. That's what I'm going to call you as from now on, because fuck you, I don't care about what you feel or think. If you get upset for one fucking second, just remember, this is how you treat people.
(Mack Beggs stuff)
You're ignorant as fuck and proud of it[/QUOTE]
the wrestler i was referring to was not mack beggs
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52192096]
6. [url]https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/34720066/kiwi-transgender-weightlifter-laurel-hubbards-win-causes-stir-among-female-aussie-competitors/#page1[/url] I should have gone out of my way to link this article in the first place. Mack Beggs is a good case of anti-trans discrimination, and I agree that the system should have recognized her status in the first place, so that's not on her.[/QUOTE]
you literally don't even know what i was talking about and you're calling me ignorant lmao.
and yeah sure, you're (like myself) kind of a jerk for referring to me as this, but hey at the end of the day it's just somebody being a meanie head. i'm not gonna get upset over it because it's not worth being upset over.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194166]the wrestler i was referring to was not mack beggs
you literally don't even know what i was talking about and you're calling me ignorant lmao.
and yeah sure, you're (like myself) kind of a jerk for referring to me as this, but hey at the end of the day it's just somebody being a meanie head. i'm not gonna get upset over it because it's not worth being upset over.[/QUOTE]
You're not going to get upset about it because you don't have a medically recognized condition with a symptom that gives you extreme stress when people call you a 60 year old woman with labia that hang down to the floor.
[QUOTE=Prism;52193862]I would write out a long, thought post about this, but my eyes are tearing up from laughing. You are full of such bullshit, my friend. So because there's someone who doesn't agree with your point of view, you literally tell them that they will make someone kill themselves if they use the wrong pronoun?[/QUOTE]
haha already having to deal with extreme self loathing and a non-existent self-esteem basically 24/7 cuz i think i'm just a fucked up "tranny", it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that i might be attempting suicide later if some fucking douchebag comes along one day and just reinforces these feelings
[QUOTE=Beetle179;52194173]You're not going to get upset about it because you don't have a medically recognized condition with a symptom that gives you extreme stress when people call you a 60 year old woman with labia that hang down to the floor.[/QUOTE]
and what are you assuming you know about me lmao, but i'm the bigot here
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Saturn V;52194178]haha already having to deal with extreme self loathing and a non-existent self-esteem basically 24/7 cuz i think i'm just a fucked up "tranny", it wouldn't be too far fetched to think that i might be attempting suicide later if some fucking douchebag comes along one day and just reinforces these feelings[/QUOTE]
or tbh you could go get counseling like a reasonable person with a mental issue (not to imply being trans is a disease, of course) to help you come to terms with your feelings that you can't help. here you go [url]http://seta.fi/seta-in-english/[/url]
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194184]or tbh you could go get counseling like a reasonable person with a mental issue (not to imply being trans is a disease, of course) to help you come to terms with your feelings that you can't help. here you go [url]http://seta.fi/seta-in-english/[/url][/QUOTE]
So, like, have you ever done an iota of research into gender dysphoria? Because this indicates you have in fact not done so.
The generally accepted treatment for people suffering gender dysphoria is to transition. It's easier to manipulate your hormones to modify the body than it is to resolve the underlying cause of the dysphoria (as we don't actually understand it yet). This involves living as your preferred gender for however long the psychiatrist needs to verify you are suitable for transitioning.
By insisting that you have some asinine God given right to be a penis and refer to someone by the wrong gender, you're actively impeding the process of coming to terms with gender dysphoria.
Just refer to people by the preferred pronoun, is it so fucking hard?
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194184]and what are you assuming you know about me lmao, but i'm the bigot here
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
or tbh you could go get counseling like a reasonable person with a mental issue (not to imply being trans is a disease, of course) to help you come to terms with your feelings that you can't help. here you go [url]http://seta.fi/seta-in-english/[/url][/QUOTE]
good lord
[QUOTE=Prism;52193862]I would write out a long, thought post about this, but my eyes are tearing up from laughing. You are full of such bullshit, my friend. So because there's someone who doesn't agree with your point of view, you literally tell them that they will make someone kill themselves if they use the wrong pronoun?
It's precisely this sort of nonscence that pushes people further and further way from accepting the idea of other genders, whatever they might be. Demanding to be treated differently than others and stating that if everyone simply doesn't play along with you, you could kill yourself(or any other over-the-top reaction) is ludicrous.
There are much, much better and smarter ways to say the same message you wanted to relay.[/QUOTE]
Trans people experience significantly higher rates of depression and suicidal tendencies. Demanding to be treated with some basic human respect isn't so much "demanding to be treated differently than others", and to suggest that it's about people "playing along" shows how much you don't respect trans people. Or rather reinforces it, because it was already pretty clear.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194184]and what are you assuming you know about me lmao, but i'm the bigot here[/QUOTE]
If you aren't going to address your blatant disregard for gender dysphoria and instead respond with this garbage I'm assuming you're done arguing and content to just be a bigot.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194184]or tbh you could go get counseling like a reasonable person with a mental issue (not to imply being trans is a disease, of course) to help you come to terms with your feelings that you can't help. here you go [url]http://seta.fi/seta-in-english/[/url][/QUOTE]
maybe (EDIT: yeah maybe not you weirdo i thought you were talking about my issues with low self-esteem and etc but apparently youre telling me to pray the trans away????? fucked up)
but my point still stands, when you DELIBERATELY keep misgendering someone who's trans then jfc you seriously are one horrible person
and i really need DBT more than just normal counseling (thx family environment for making me borderline lmao)
also HRT is p good just sayin
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194166]the wrestler i was referring to was not mack beggs
you literally don't even know what i was talking about and you're calling me ignorant lmao.
and yeah sure, you're (like myself) kind of a jerk for referring to me as this, but hey at the end of the day it's just somebody being a meanie head. i'm not gonna get upset over it because it's not worth being upset over.[/QUOTE]
You don't get upset over it because you have no reason to. You have no empathy with the people who do. Do you even know what it feels like to have that occur to you?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194216]You don't get upset over it because you have no reason to. You have no empathy with the people who do. Do you even know what it feels like to have that occur to you?[/QUOTE]
actually yeah, i've got plenty of experience with being mislabeled as something that i'm not. not genderwise but it's similar enough that i think it's relevant here. when i was in 3rd grade i threw a tantrum in school and said i'd kill myself. lo and behold, i end up in a mental hospital for a week. mom took me out of that first shitty school and put me in a new one, but i had to take special classes until 9th grade because the child study team kept telling my mom that i was special. second week of 9th grade i went to my guidance counselor about it because i was sick of being in tard classes and he said "yeah the child study team hasn't even looked at your file since 7th grade, i'm gonna put you in normal classes because you're at the top of all your classes and you clearly don't belong in special ed." for a long time i had to deal with kids calling me a tard and shit. my cocksucker older brother still thinks i'm retarded when i've proven time and again that i'm pretty normal (and before you say it, i act completely different irl than i do on these forums). so yeah, i have an idea of what it's like to be mislabeled. i've also learned not to be bothered by it because it's not worth the trouble lol. i get that there are substantially more extreme cases of gender dysphoria than what i've been trying to refer to, but i think it's pretty likely that for the average trans person, coming to terms with the issue is fairly simple (and by counseling and therapy, i was referring to HRT like saturn refuses to acknowledge lmao)
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52194207]So, like, have you ever done an iota of research into gender dysphoria? Because this indicates you have in fact not done so.
The generally accepted treatment for people suffering gender dysphoria is to transition. It's easier to manipulate your hormones to modify the body than it is to resolve the underlying cause of the dysphoria (as we don't actually understand it yet). This involves living as your preferred gender for however long the psychiatrist needs to verify you are suitable for transitioning.
By insisting that you have some asinine [b]God given right[/b] to be a penis and refer to someone by the wrong gender, you're actively impeding the process of coming to terms with gender dysphoria.
Just refer to people by the preferred pronoun, is it so fucking hard?[/QUOTE]
i never mentioned god. my right to be a peener weener and refer to someone the way i want to is my right as a human being. and yeah, when my brain is telling me "that woman's a guy" it actually is kinda hard to ignore
Not everyone has the luxury of affording professional help.
If you went through that, you should know better than to make the assumption that years of trauma and bullying can just be waved off as just "words". Especially when, for trans people, the fight doesn't end when they visit therapy. Considering the state of our country and the active steps politicians are taking to treat trans people as subhuman and undeserving of certain rights, it's not just a "words" thing.
It's a "this world does not yet accept me for who I fundamentally AM and people would rather see me dead than recognize that I want to be called something else" thing.
You can't downplay it as "just words". It doesn't work that way.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52194247]actually yeah, i've got plenty of experience with being mislabeled as something that i'm not. not genderwise but it's similar enough that i think it's relevant here. when i was in 3rd grade i threw a tantrum in school and said i'd kill myself. lo and behold, i end up in a mental hospital for a week. mom took me out of that first shitty school and put me in a new one, but i had to take special classes until 9th grade because the child study team kept telling my mom that i was special. second week of 9th grade i went to my guidance counselor about it because i was sick of being in tard classes and he said "yeah the child study team hasn't even looked at your file since 7th grade, i'm gonna put you in normal classes because you're at the top of all your classes and you clearly don't belong in special ed." for a long time i had to deal with kids calling me a tard and shit. my cocksucker older brother still thinks i'm retarded when i've proven time and again that i'm pretty normal (and before you say it, i act completely different irl than i do on these forums). so yeah, i have an idea of what it's like to be mislabeled. i've also learned not to be bothered by it because it's not worth the trouble lol. i get that there are substantially more extreme cases of gender dysphoria than what i've been trying to refer to, but i think it's pretty likely that for the average trans person, coming to terms with the issue is fairly simple (and by counseling and therapy, i was referring to HRT like saturn refuses to acknowledge lmao)
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
i never mentioned god. my right to be a peener weener and refer to someone the way i want to is my right as a human being. and yeah, when my brain is telling me "that woman's a guy" it actually is kinda hard to ignore[/QUOTE]
How you go through something like that and come out the other end with as little empathy, understanding, and concern as you do is beyond me.
Good for you, you had help. Other people don't. Step outside of yourself for one fucking minute dude.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52194262]Especially when, for trans people, the fight doesn't end when they visit therapy. Considering the state of our country and the active steps politicians are taking to treat trans people as subhuman and undeserving of certain rights, it's not just a "words" thing.[/QUOTE]
this is true, even if i live in finland ATM. like in finland in order to have your gender change recognized you have to be deemed unable to reproduce so yeah kinda fucked up. a lot of times i don't feel human at all and instead i just feel like a sick animal that should be put down
so someone using the right pronouns would be a really really small thing okay but it'd still mean A LOT, like really a fucking lot and if i don't even deserve that why should i even allow myself to live?
I'm sorry if that makes me sound like a bigot but I'm not buying into that "respect my pronouns" bullshit. Just let people know they should use "they/them" when they're talking about you if you're not comfortable with he or she. Unless a new pronoun started receiving huge support and acknowledgment from the worldwide community, there's no reason I should accommodate your "special snowflake" habits.
People talk about "human decency", but what about it when they get offended when people don't start using their made-up pronouns? It's like when someone shows their new car and every time someone talks about it by just referring to it as a "car" the owner tells them "I'm sorry, but it's not a car. It's a Jaguar. Please don't say it's a car. There's a clear difference."
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