• France’s highest court refuses to recognise 'neutral gender' as a category
    255 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194296]I'm sorry if that makes me sound like a bigot but I'm not buying into that "respect my pronouns" bullshit. Just let people know they should use "they/them" when they're talking about you if you're not comfortable with he or she. Unless a new pronoun started receiving huge support and acknowledgment from the worldwide community, there's no reason I should accommodate your "special snowflake" habits. People talk about "human decency", but what about it when they get offended when people don't start using their made-up pronouns? It's like when someone shows their new car and every time someone talks about it by just referring to it as a "car" the owner tells them "I'm sorry, but it's not a car. It's a Jaguar. Please don't say it's a car."[/QUOTE] If someone wants "he" or "she" or "They" why the fuck is that a problem for you or anyone
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194298]If someone wants "he" or "she" or "They" why the fuck is that a problem for you or anyone[/QUOTE] They're free to choose between those 3, I have no problem with that. Making up words and obliging others to use them under pretense of "human decency" though, I have a problem with it.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194301]They're free to choose between those 3, I have no problem with that. Making up words and obliging others to use them under pretense of "human decency" though, I have a problem with it.[/QUOTE] Oh yay, Tumbler sjw's are your basis for generalizing the conversation. You do know that isn't representative of the community as a whole?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194306]Oh yay, Tumbler sjw's are your basis for generalizing the conversation. You do know that isn't representative of the community as a whole?[/QUOTE] I've read this thread and I saw people making a big deal out of the pronouns. Tumblr had nothing to do with it.
Like I said earlier, If someone's pronouns are a bit beyond the scope of what you feel like you understand, referring to them by their name is the easiest thing you can do. Unless you're writing a novel about them or constantly bringing them up in three way conversations, then you don't have to put forth the apparent [I]monumental[/I] effort it takes to call them by what they want to be called by. Their name is just as good.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194309]I've read this thread and I saw people making a big deal out of the pronouns. Tumblr had nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] Yeah? Because how hard is it to say "He", "She", or "They"? Which is what this thread has been largely about
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194301]They're free to choose between those 3, I have no problem with that. Making up words and obliging others to use them under pretense of "human decency" though, I have a problem with it.[/QUOTE] You realise you're talking about a strawman right? Almost every single trans-person on the planet is going to be fine with he/she or they, they're already going through enough shit just being accepted for what they identify as already. Why would they start making up pronouns that are almost certainly not going to be accepted? Anybody unironically requesting alternative pronouns is mentally ill in some other way. Thankfully they don't actually exist outside of stories on the Internet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a major form of disrespect. It's like if I looked at your name, [B]could[/B] say it right, but chose to butcher it constantly to make you feel bad and awkward except worse.
People who use outlandish pronouns are generally younger kids who are barely figuring out what and who they want to be. Bullying them because they think it's cute to call themselves xe/xir or whatever sort of pronoun they prefer doesn't teach them anything. For people who don't want to "respect someone's pronouns" you can just do everyone a favor and not talk to anyone in the third person. Like just mind your business lol.
I saw different people advocating for the use of made-up pronouns, I'm against it. I'm not generalizing trans people, I was talking about the ones who care about using their own pronouns from the start.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194301]They're free to choose between those 3, I have no problem with that. Making up words and obliging others to use them under pretense of "human decency" though, I have a problem with it.[/QUOTE] Your stance is far more respectful than the views of certain posters here. You would actually correct yourself if necessary, and that's some good common courtesy.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194317]It's a major form of disrespect. It's like if I looked at your name, [B]could[/B] say it right, but chose to butcher it constantly to make you feel bad and awkward except worse.[/QUOTE] Except that people's names are widely different for everyone, so everyone is expected to use them appropriately. We're talking about making up words that don't need to. Between people's names and people's pronouns, there's a massive difference.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;52191778]"Off-putting?" Nice. way to be a dick right off the bat with those pronouns! Hey, fuck the months of hormone therapy, right? Thanks for being decent! [/QUOTE] I love you BrickInHead but I think him using the wrong pronoun was a mistake and not intentional, if you told me this story I'd probably make the same mistake. I worry about this shit because I fuck up my words on a constant basis.
[QUOTE=Arctic-Zone;52194333]Your stance is far more respectful than the views of certain posters here. You would actually correct yourself if necessary, and that's some good common courtesy.[/QUOTE] Thanks, I fully respect trans people but I think there's a lot of overboard bullshit in the discussions around them.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194336]Except that people's names are widely different for everyone, so everyone is expected to use them appropriately. We're talking about making up words that don't need to. Between people's names and people's pronouns, there's a massive difference.[/QUOTE] Are you arguing against a fucking non existant person dude
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194298]If someone wants "he" or "she" or "They" why the fuck is that a problem for you or anyone[/QUOTE] Nothing is wrong with that but when you slip-up and call someone a she you shouldn't be vilified for it.
I'm talking about pronouns. Pronouns are not "XE XIR" shit dude. You know that, right? He, she, they, are pronouns. I'm talking about those. Can you at least not act like i'm arguing something I never once did...? [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Arc Nova;52194352]Nothing is wrong with that but when you slip-up and call someone a she you shouldn't be vilified for it.[/QUOTE] No, who said you should be...? We're talking about a person who is intentionally doing this Context is in this thread.
You've kinda lost me, Abyss.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194353]I'm talking about pronouns. Pronouns are not "XE XIR" shit dude. You know that, right? He, she, they, are pronouns. I'm talking about those. Can you at least not act like i'm arguing something I never once did...? [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] No, who said you should be...? We're talking about a person who is intentionally doing this Context is in this thread.[/QUOTE] Loadingue seems to be against only the "xe/xir" neopronoun stuff. They've said already that they're comfortable using he/she/they whenever and switching when they make a mistake.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194353]I'm talking about pronouns. Pronouns are not "XE XIR" shit dude. You know that, right? He, she, they, are pronouns. I'm talking about those. Can you at least not act like i'm arguing something I never once did...? [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] No, who said you should be...? We're talking about a person who is intentionally doing this Context is in this thread.[/QUOTE] yeah right in this thread..? [QUOTE=BrickInHead;52191778]"Off-putting?" Nice. way to be a dick right off the bat with those pronouns! Hey, fuck the months of hormone therapy, right? Thanks for being decent![/quote] I love BrickinHead but I don't think the poster he is replying to here even meant to be offensive
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194362]You've kinda lost me, Abyss.[/QUOTE] You are acting like I'm talking about Pronouns in reference to the "Unique" things people ask to be refered to. I am not. A pronoun is "He", "She", "They". You are acting like being asked to be called those things is the same extension of ridiculousness as "Xe" or "Xir" type shit. It is not.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194314]Yeah? Because how hard is it to say "He", "She", or "They"? Which is what this thread has been largely about[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194317]It's a major form of disrespect. It's like if I looked at your name, [B]could[/B] say it right, but chose to butcher it constantly to make you feel bad and awkward except worse.[/QUOTE] Or your own posts for context, kinda reads like I'm an asshole if I screw up and don't use your proper pronouns
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194327]I saw different people advocating for the use of made-up pronouns, I'm against it. I'm not generalizing trans people, I was talking about the ones who care about using their own pronouns from the start.[/QUOTE] Well according to Baconator 7 my 'own' pronoun of she is invalid in addressing myself. To stay on topic with the OP: Would it be a serious hassle to have an other gender as an option for those who identify as non-binary?
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52194373]Or your own posts for context, kinda reads like I'm an asshole if I screw up and don't use your proper pronouns[/QUOTE] How...? You "Choose" to mispronoun someone? Or did you slip up? Are you sure you even know what I said? [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] I don't get how you read what I said there, and think i'm saying a slip up and a choice are the same thing. Whatever.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52194377]How...? You "Choose" to mispronoun someone? Or did you slip up? Are you sure you even know what I said?[/QUOTE] Just the way you post seems very angry all the time and you come off as a person who would flip out over a slip up through your posts. Even this post seems like you're in attack mode already and it's just the vibe I get when I read through the thread.
[QUOTE=Loadingue;52194309]I've read this thread and I saw people making a big deal out of the pronouns. Tumblr had nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE] I'm not sure what you're whining about. I was the first person to bring up decency and pronouns because I specifically advised that my non binary partner prefers they/them. So not sure what you're referring to.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52194381]Just the way you post seems very angry all the time and you come off as a person who would flip out over a slip up through your posts. Even this post seems like you're in attack mode already and it's just the vibe I get when I read through the thread.[/QUOTE] Oh well, that's how I come across in text regardless of how I type It's not who I am in real life, and your assumptions about that are just that. Empty assumptions. If you want to assume I'm flipping out over that, fine, you can assume that, and you can be wrong. Or, you could just take the time to thoughtfully read what I said and recognize that I even defined a difference between slip up and choice in the post you think I'm flipping out over. [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] Arc, how about you go and read Baconators posts, and you can get all pissy at me for "Seeming like i'm going to flip out over a slip up" but he's not talking about slip ups. He's intentionally mispronouning people. That's different. That's what I was talking about. If you refuse to read the context of that and you put words and intentions in my mouth because of that, then yes, I assume I'm going to seem angry to you when I rebutt your bullshit.
This thread is a mess to read and I don't want to reply, but this was necessary.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;52194383]I'm not sure what you're whining about. I was the first person to bring up decency and pronouns because I specifically advised that my non binary partner prefers they/them. So not sure what you're referring to.[/QUOTE] Yeah sorry if there's been some confusion, but your partner is doing it right as far as I'm concerned. It's possible I read this [QUOTE=BrickInHead;52191558]all due respect i don't think it's an unreasonable request to respect the pronouns that a person prefers and let them use the bathroom they feel comfortable in. it's not difficult and something everyone should understand. I'm a straight dude. if someone consistently called me "she" and "her" I'd be really frustrated and embarrassed, same with if I was forced to use a womens' restrroom. Trans issues effectively come down to pronouns and bathrooms (of which the non-binary designation for non-binary people is a part, and by extension legal representation is necessary and important from a legal and moral perspective).[/QUOTE] and I actually thought you were talking about made-up pronouns. Then yeah, my bad. It's Tumblr's fault after all.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52194373]Or your own posts for context, kinda reads like I'm an asshole if I screw up and don't use your proper pronouns[/QUOTE] most trans people that I know won't be offended if you use the wrong pronouns as long as you demonstrate at least a modicum of effort to correct that. In fact, someone making a mistake and then correcting themselves on pronouns (in my experience) actually makes trans people super happy because it shows that people are willing to treat them the way they want. There's a key difference between honest mistakes and what some users in this thread talk about with feeling g they have some strange "right" to misgender people
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