• France’s highest court refuses to recognise 'neutral gender' as a category
    255 replies, posted
did you know that dosages go by bodyweight like virtually always
[QUOTE=Thlis;52195242]I'm not arguing against having it on an ID Card. I'm just saying for medical purposes then it should probably be sex and not gender.[/QUOTE] I think having both would solve all problems?
[QUOTE=Thlis;52195242]I'm not arguing against having it on an ID Card. I'm just saying for medical purposes then it should probably be sex and not gender.[/QUOTE] Not sure about you guys but I'm looking at my ID right now and it says "Sex" not "Gender" Could be different in the states, I doubt it though. [editline]6th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=NeonpieDFTBA;52195230]Honestly what medical emergencies require immediate knowledge of sex? Just curious.[/QUOTE] Cardiovascular diseases behave differently between males and females including their symptoms and risk factors. [url]http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heart_vascular_institute/clinical_services/centers_excellence/womens_cardiovascular_health_center/patient_information/health_topics/heart_disease_gender_differences.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195610]Rather than brushing it off as ordinary people brush off insults everyday over the course of their lives, you and others experience intense feelings of hatred, sadness, panic attacks, etc. People are less inclined to believe your struggle because it sounds disproportionate to the situation. To put it bluntly, it sounds a lot like you're really weak minded.[/QUOTE] yeah its totally disproportionate when youve dealt with a lifetime's worth of prejudice and invalidation sure yep how i feel is 100% disproportionate i can totally just brush off these minor things no problem
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195610]I dont think that it reflects poorly on their personality, because the majority of society is not only against [I]full [/I]LGBTQ acknowledgment and rights, they are even less so inclined to use the correct pronouns. For most, the entire issue from the ground up is completely obscure, and people rarely have an idea about the topic to begin with, and so the issue becomes awkward and uncomfortable to both discuss and approach. Labeling someone the wrong pronoun is rarely derogatory in nature but rather a mere lack of understanding and perhaps a hint of skepticism. Before any zingers start flying around, by the way, I'm not talking about myself, but rather the public (and the state) at large as a blanket term. And the reason for this skepticism is because of this rhetoric. Someone referring to you as "he" makes you feel like subhuman garbage. Rather than brushing it off as ordinary people brush off insults everyday over the course of their lives, you and others experience intense feelings of hatred, sadness, panic attacks, etc. People are less inclined to believe your struggle because it sounds disproportionate to the situation. To put it bluntly, it sounds a lot like you're really weak minded. To make matters worse, people who are neutral on the subject are often attacked and labeled as bigots in a barrage of awkward insults and angst. This is an inherent mistake because not only are you pushing people farther away from you, you're also swaying public opinion against you. The result is widespread trans discrimination. I understand that it's completely against your natural instinct to defend yourself and who you are, to turn the other cheek or even simply ignore the insults and attacks on your character, but if society sees trans people as a battered demographic that has endured much and managed to still stay true to who they are, instead of relentlessly crying foul and acting like the skies are falling each time someone misgenders you, the situation would be very different than it is today. Ive made similar posts some months ago in a different thread about how trans people must grow a thick skin in order to be eventually accepted by society, instead of being stuck in this limbo of heated public debate that never goes anywhere - because the core argument of many is - disrespect. A concept that is completely subjective and cannot be argued rationally since it is rooted in individual emotion and is interpreted differently by all. Not a lot of people responded because it wasn't a juicy moral crusade against some other full-fledged bigots who were posting in that thread, so go figure.[/QUOTE] Asking a trans person to simply grow thicker skin and get over their dysphoria is like telling someone with depression to just think positive and snap out of it. It's fucking stupid and it doesn't work that way. Even then, most of my trans friends don't even say [I]anything[/I] when they're misgendered, because it puts them at risk. The idea of "DID YOU JUST ASSUME MY GENDER" is completely, 100% developed by those trying to discredit trans and nb people who would [I]never[/I] put a target on themselves like that. The most I've ever seen someone do is politely ask for others to use the correct pronouns -- saying that trans people "act like the skies are falling" is hilariously uninformed and based entirely on shit you'd see in LMAO pics.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195641]Remembering the amount of struggle you've endured should only strengthen your resolve[/QUOTE] thats a very cute thing to say but sadly the way it works is that it'll just keep wearing me down more and more and me feel like even less of a person and i'll at the very least end up harming myself i dont even care about attacking "bigots" or whatever like that because it'll just put me at more risk so i'll just take it all and not say anything i just don't want to feel bad
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195641]If you cannot brush them off, you need to come to terms with them and work on it. Remembering the amount of struggle you've endured should only strengthen your resolve, not weaken it in the name of solidifying yourself as a victim. It's easier to attack some vague "bigot" boogyman than it is to simply ignore it, I understand, however you must do so if you wish to earn the acceptance of society.[/QUOTE] It can be beyond depressing to fight a struggle for years and know it's never going to be over because politeness and decency are literally beyond the pale for the portion of the populous you're describing. People are weak. I suppose we shouldn't help them eh? If you have a problem down the road would it be fair to classify you as weak because you can't overcome a problem? Surely you've never asked for help least you be called weak eh Marboro?
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195641]If you cannot brush them off, you need to come to terms with them and work on it. Remembering the amount of struggle you've endured should only strengthen your resolve, not weaken it in the name of solidifying yourself as a victim. It's easier to attack some vague "bigot" boogyman than it is to simply ignore it, I understand, however you must do so if you wish to earn the acceptance of society.[/QUOTE] Sounds good in theory, but that's an utter romanticization of the very real issues transgender people face. Why should I or anyone else stay silent in order to gain acceptance? When has staying silent ever helped a marginalized minority? Though to be fair, you were right when you said I was weak-minded. Gender dysphoria has pretty much destroyed my resolve. However, I still stand by the idea that using correct pronouns is a necessary part of respect, and me asking to not be intentionally misgendered isn't a catalyst for transgender discrimination. Trans people aren't at fault for the prejudice society holds against us. (also, I want to be called he, not the other way around, and I actually state that in my post.)
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195718]Your indecisiveness, reluctance to accept regurgitated advice pieces on the basis that they're overstated and thus have no value to them is what's wearing you down. Try adopting a different perspective, you've nothing to lose. [/QUOTE] what [editline]7th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Marbalo;52195718]The analogy to depression is fallacious, while both are rooted in the mind only one is fluid, in the sense that gender dysphoria doesn't dictate the actions of an individual and does not serve as a catalyst for suicide or other irrational thought patterns like medical depression does. Dysphoria is merely feeling uncomfortable in ones own body.[/QUOTE] oh gee oh wow WOW just WOW this is the most uninformed piece of shit text i've EVER read just holy cow! "Dysphoria is merely feeling uncomfortable in ones own body." might seriously be the most invalidating, understating sentence i've read. just no words unbelievable "does not serve as a catalyst for suicide or other irrational thought patterns like medical depression does" seriously, no words. i mean jesus even if i didn't have borderline personality disorder to make me an ever bigger mess of a person i'd STILL be totally fucked in the head because of dysphoria sure go ahead and ignore the fact that theres a 40% suicide attempt rate for trans people yeah nice not like i have frequent suicidal ideation and wish i was dead and cut myself because i'm this fucked up thing as many think who'll never be a real womanTM
Dysphoria is a medical diagnosis just like depression. It's not just a bad feeling. When you misgender someone, there is a distinct possibility that you are not the only one who's done that. Misgendering does not stop at a simple usage of a "he" instead of a "she" or vice versa. It can be traumatic following other instances in a trans person's life such as being disowned by their families, abandoned by friends, discriminated against in the workplace and by medical professionals, and physical/verbal abuse by people they know or complete strangers. Trauma builds up. And depression as a [I]result[/I] of dysphoria is absolutely a thing. Not to mention mental illness can be something that was already present in a trans person before they even knew they were trans. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. You can have both and have one thing affect the other. To presume that you know everyone's resolve, their past, and their ability to "brush off" things like misgendering and verbal abuse is ridiculous. It's not that easy. And as I've said previously, it's not easy to access professional help either. You do nothing but belittle the issues that trans people face by saying that they should just ignore it and fend for themselves. Life shouldn't be that way. And you should not expect people to accept life as is.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195759]growing thicker skin[/QUOTE] its easy to do that while being constantly worn down
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195759]Not staying silent, but growing thicker skin. There is a difference. A virtue that has always helped marginalized minorities, or is at least, far better than being hyper sensitive which merely detracts from the issues you're trying to bring light to. It has an opposite effect on society. Also, it's only a romanticization if you allow it to be as such. Besides, romanticization has inherent values and may even help you understand how to cultivate a more resolute character, don't be so quick as to dismiss it. I dont think Ive used a single gender-specific pronoun in any of my posts.[/QUOTE] Expecting everyone to grow a thicker skin is a nice thought, but sometimes mental illness makes it extremely difficult to just ignore people. I'm already cowed by societal prejudice into not correcting people when they use female pronouns, now I have to ignore belligerent people in order to be seen as a reasonable person who doesn't deserve to be discriminated against? Dysphoria and the depression/anxiety stemming from that dysphoria makes me hyper-sensitive, true, but it's not like I'm screaming at people who call me she. I just internalize the self-hatred caused by my brain and body's disconnect, that's it, I don't act like a "belligerent freak of nature" or "mentally confused individual." And sorry, but romanticization doesn't magically wave away my mental illnesses or other issues, as much as wishful thinking may say otherwise. Also, I'm referring to when you said that me being called "he" made me feel like a piece of shit. I was correcting you.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;52195624]yeah its totally disproportionate when youve dealt with a lifetime's worth of prejudice and invalidation sure yep how i feel is 100% disproportionate i can totally just brush off these minor things no problem[/QUOTE] not for nothing, but you're kind of proving his point when you keep making posts like this, where you're talking honestly in a very whiny and annoying fashion. quite frankly you're setting a bad example for non-transgender people when you act like this. Have you ever considered that maybe its the fault of people who react in the way you do, as well as biased/prejudiced people, that trans people are misperceived in the ways they are? (This is assuming you're trans, which afaik you've heavily implied without outright saying. If youre not, it still applies to certain others in this thread)
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195776]not for nothing, but you're kind of proving his point when you keep making posts like this, where you're talking honestly in a very whiny and annoying fashion. quite frankly you're setting a bad example for non-transgender people when you act like this. Have you ever considered that maybe its the fault of people who react in the way you do, as well as biased/prejudiced people, that trans people are misperceived in the ways they are? (This is assuming you're trans, which afaik you've heavily implied without outright saying. If youre not, it still applies to certain others in this thread)[/QUOTE] Yeah I hate it when mentally ill people act like they're mentally ill.
How about we stop fucking accusing people of being "whiny" and "annoying" when we know nothing of what it's like to be them and have been comfortable in our gender and bodies our entire life when they haven't, hmmm? What is so FUCKING HARD about "live and let live" and just fucking calling people what they want to be called, Jesus Christ.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52195754]Dysphoria is a medical diagnosis just like depression. It's not just a bad feeling. When you misgender someone, there is a distinct possibility that you are not the only one who's done that. Misgendering does not stop at a simple usage of a "he" instead of a "she" or vice versa. It can be traumatic following other instances in a trans person's life such as being disowned by their families, abandoned by friends, discriminated against in the workplace and by medical professionals, and physical/verbal abuse by people they know or complete strangers. Trauma builds up. And depression as a [I]result[/I] of dysphoria is absolutely a thing. Not to mention mental illness can be something that was already present in a trans person before they even knew they were trans. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. You can have both and have one thing affect the other. To presume that you know everyone's resolve, their past, and their ability to "brush off" things like misgendering and verbal abuse is ridiculous. It's not that easy. And as I've said previously, it's not easy to access professional help either. You do nothing but belittle the issues that trans people face by saying that they should just ignore it and fend for themselves. Life shouldn't be that way. And you should not expect people to accept life as is.[/QUOTE] And not for nothing, but I generally expect people to accept life as not pandering to all of their needs. Obviously these people can't help that they are depressed and they can't help their dysphoria, but it really would help them if they could strive to have a harder resolve. People need to realize that life isn't so nice as they would like. Not to imply that trans people are like little kids, but this realization is part of growing up.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195776]not for nothing, but you're kind of proving his point when you keep making posts like this, where you're talking honestly in a very whiny and annoying fashion. quite frankly you're setting a bad example for non-transgender people when you act like this. Have you ever considered that maybe its the fault of people who react in the way you do, as well as biased/prejudiced people, that trans people are misperceived in the ways they are? (This is assuming you're trans, which afaik you've heavily implied without outright saying. If youre not, it still applies to certain others in this thread)[/QUOTE] Middle school. Some kid gets bullied every single day. One day, the kid decides to commit suicide. You: "Maybe if he wasnt such a loser and just laughed along. this wouldn't have happened!"
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195776]not for nothing, but you're kind of proving his point when you keep making posts like this, where you're talking honestly in a very whiny and annoying fashion. quite frankly you're setting a bad example for non-transgender people when you act like this. Have you ever considered that maybe its the fault of people who react in the way you do, as well as biased/prejudiced people, that trans people are misperceived in the ways they are? (This is assuming you're trans, which afaik you've heavily implied without outright saying. If youre not, it still applies to certain others in this thread)[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure it's the fault of certain cis people (no, not all of them) that discriminate against us and treat us like freaks or people undeserving of equal rights, not the trans people who are upset by or made to feel subhuman because of said discrimination.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195798]And not for nothing, but I generally expect people to accept life as not pandering to all of their needs. Obviously these people can't help that they are depressed and they can't help their dysphoria, but it really would help them if they could strive to have a harder resolve. People need to realize that life isn't so nice as they would like. Not to imply that trans people are like little kids, but this realization is part of growing up.[/QUOTE] hey lemme give you like a life tip: "have a harder resolve" is not advice that any good therapist would ever give one of their patients and it means even less coming from someone who seems to have no concept of mental illness lol
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195798]And not for nothing, but I generally expect people to accept life as not pandering to all of their needs. Obviously these people can't help that they are depressed and they can't help their dysphoria, but it really would help them if they could strive to have a harder resolve. People need to realize that life isn't so nice as they would like. Not to imply that trans people are like little kids, but this realization is part of growing up.[/QUOTE] I see that this has gone way beyond you not understanding transgenderism or dysphoria. Please, never try to help anyone with depression or any form of mental illness
Not being a dick =/= pandering.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195798]And not for nothing, but I generally expect people to accept life as not pandering to all of their needs. Obviously these people can't help that they are depressed and they can't help their dysphoria, but it really would help them if they could strive to have a harder resolve. People need to realize that life isn't so nice as they would like. Not to imply that trans people are like little kids, but this realization is part of growing up.[/QUOTE] You've never been mentally ill in your life have you? You've never had that sort of issue, right? To have your own self be your enemy? You can't get over that by ~~growing up~~ or ~~having a harder resolve~~.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52195809]You've never been mentally ill in your life have you?[/QUOTE] Nah but one time she was called a retard and that's probably the same thing or something.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52195793]How about we stop fucking accusing people of being "whiny" and "annoying" when we know nothing of what it's like to be them and have been comfortable in our gender and bodies our entire life when they haven't, hmmm?[/QUOTE] First of all, I don't know what he's been through and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me. Right now my concern in having made that post was that every time somebody says something that doesn't agree with his worldview's, even if it only sounds vaguely Anti Trans, he posts kind of like a little kid. I'm not accusing them of being whiny and annoying, I'm pointing out that they are whiny and annoying, and this threads discussion would be a lot less skewed if they would post in a civil way.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52195793]How about we stop fucking accusing people of being "whiny" and "annoying"[/QUOTE] yeah it's kinda difficult when people tell you to just "grow thicker skin" when you wake up every day in fear and stress 100% anxiety when you know that you'll never FULLY be who you feel like you are and when you not infrequently have to worry for your very life even when at home and you just don't feel like a human being at all it just gets tiring when people tell you shit like "lol youre just being dramatic" idk doesn't feel right i mean what i just described doesnt describe even like 5% of whats going on in my mind at any given time its just fucking tiring thats all. i can barely even write because my mind is such a broken mess i guess having a broken body on top of all that is just the icing on the cake
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195815]First of all, I don't know what he's been through and quite frankly it doesn't matter to me. Right now my concern in having made that post was that every time somebody says something that doesn't agree with his worldview's, even if it only sounds vaguely Anti Trans, [B]he posts kind of like a little kid.[/B] I'm not accusing them of being whiny and annoying, I'm pointing out that they are whiny and annoying, and this threads discussion would be a lot less skewed if they would post in a civil way.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]"trans people's rights are more important than those of anybody else. some people understand trans people but aren't entirely comfortable with them, and those people are bigots because they don't have the same pronoun-usage rights as trans people, because i know a trans person and so i take it personally" [/QUOTE] Strawmanning. Check. [QUOTE]how hypocritical is it to expect people to act the way you want them to just because you are different from them? am i supposed to disregard my personal comfort and bend over to your will because you feel different?[/QUOTE] Acting like a child. Check. Try again. You're the kid here. Answer me this: do any of these issues, such as calling people by the gender they want to be called, or acknowledging that certain people prefer gender neutral terms [I]actually[/I] affect you or cause you harm?
[QUOTE=da space core;52195799]Middle school. Some kid gets bullied every single day. One day, the kid decides to commit suicide. You: "Maybe if he wasnt such a loser and just laughed along. this wouldn't have happened!"[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure I posted a story about myself earlier when I went through several years of school having dealt with several years of stigmatize ation. I was in fact able to make it through that because I learned a little bit of self-deprecation, along with of course seeking help from counselors. As a matter of fact, being able to just shrug off people being a dick to you is something the entire world could benefit from.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195829]I was in fact able to make it through that because I learned a little bit of self-deprecation[/QUOTE] yeah me too, only it worked so well that i can no longer stop calling myself a fucked up tranny among other things lol
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195829]I'm pretty sure I posted a story about myself earlier when I went through several years of school having dealt with several years of stigmatize ation. I was in fact able to make it through that because I learned a little bit of self-deprecation, along with of course seeking help from counselors. As a matter of fact, being able to just shrug off people being a dick to you is something the entire world could benefit from.[/QUOTE] Not everyone is as strong or as capable as being strong as you. Not everyone is going to be able to learn those skills or be able to handle that kind of abuse 100% of the times. Don't assume your personal experiences apply to everyone.
[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52195828]Strawmanning. Check. Acting like a child. Check. Try again. You're the kid here. Answer me this: do any of these issues, such as calling people by the gender they want to be called, or acknowledging that certain people prefer gender neutral terms [I]actually[/I] affect you or cause you harm?[/QUOTE] Actually yeah. I feel legitimately uncomfortable with referring to somebody who I know was born a given sex as a member of the other sex. It gives me anxiety, much like I'm certain Saturn feels as they just described. Its something I've tried to help myself get over because I rationally know and understand what trans people go through (as much as a CIS WHITE PERSON can at any rate), but its a feeling I can't dismiss as hard as I try. Its funny that you mention my post about hypocrisy, and then act like a hypocrite in the process lmao
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