France’s highest court refuses to recognise 'neutral gender' as a category
255 replies, posted
Yeah that's called transphobia.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195850]Actually yeah. I feel legitimately uncomfortable with referring to somebody who I know was born a given sex as a member of the other sex. It gives me anxiety, much like I'm certain Saturn feels as they just described. Its something I've tried to help myself get over because I rationally know and understand what trans people go through (as much as a CIS WHITE PERSON can at any rate), but its a feeling I can't dismiss as hard as I try.
Its funny that you mention my post about hypocrisy, and then act like a hypocrite in the process lmao[/QUOTE]
In what way am I acting like a hypocrit?
Also you are genuinely being transphobic. Or at the very least, very silly, since it doesn't affect you. In the slightest.
Surely it'd be easier to at-least just accept it?
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195850] I rationally know and understand what trans people go through[/QUOTE]
you know literally nothing
Man I wish I was able to be insulted and threatened when someone asked me to say a different pronoun.
God it's like the people who complain about it never spent time outside of the home
also what good is "growing thicker skin" gonna do anyway when my mind is my worst enemy and it's deep within my skin already
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195718]Your indecisiveness, reluctance to accept regurgitated advice pieces on the basis that they're overstated and thus have no value to them is what's wearing you down. Try adopting a different perspective, you've nothing to lose.[/QUOTE]
What a beautiful piece of pseudo-intellectualism this is. Perfection. Utter brilliance!
Not every view point is actually worth the hair between my ass cheeks. Some view points are categorically fucking stupid and why the hell should people waste their time ~~adopting a different perspective~~ when that perspective is one that wishes to wholly invalidate them as a person, despite the component of them that viewpoint despises being entirely fucking harmless.
But thanks again for reaffirming that you also know fucking nothing about mental welfare in general, let alone gender dysphoria. I'm some fucking nerd who studied computing science and programs for a living and even I seem to have done more research into the field than you. Perhaps one should not talk about subjects one does not understand, yes?
[QUOTE=Pascall;52195852]Yeah that's called transphobia.[/QUOTE]
So having an opinion on transgender people that doesn't completely fall in line with how they ask people to think about them is transphobia? Maybe it's being a dick, but I [b]don't[/b]( dislike trans people and I'm certainly not maliciously prejudiced against them. you can correctly argue that I have a prejudice, which is an inexperienced (I do know trans people from school. I won't use the "but i have trans friends!!!" bullshit because I'm not friends with them, nonetheless i have spoken with them about their dysphoria so i'd say i have a fair bit of experience) opinion on something, but to imply that I fear or think lesser of trans people is quite frankly f****** ignorant, given that I've tried as hard as I can to explain that I'm not either of these things. You're actively trying to overgeneralize my opinions on this matter.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195902]So having an opinion on transgender people that doesn't completely fall in line with how they ask people to think about them is transphobia? Maybe it's being a dick, but I [b]don't[/b]( dislike trans people and I'm certainly not maliciously prejudiced against them. you can correctly argue that I have a prejudice, which is an inexperienced (I do know trans people from school. I won't use the "but i have trans friends!!!" bullshit because I'm not friends with them, nonetheless i have spoken with them about their dysphoria so i'd say i have a fair bit of experience) opinion on something, but to imply that I fear or think lesser of trans people is quite frankly f****** ignorant, given that I've tried as hard as I can to explain that I'm not either of these things. You're actively trying to overgeneralize my opinions on this matter.[/QUOTE]
Being uncomfortable and showing prejudice towards trans people is literally transphobia, dude.
That's the definition of transphobia.
Like I don't know what you want me to tell you fam lmao if you don't like being called transphobic then maybe don't be transphobic.
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195902]So having an opinion on transgender people that doesn't completely fall in line with how they ask people to think about them is transphobia? Maybe it's being a dick, but I [b]don't[/b]( dislike trans people and I'm certainly not maliciously prejudiced against them. you can correctly argue that I have a prejudice, which is an inexperienced (I do know trans people from school. I won't use the "but i have trans friends!!!" bullshit because I'm not friends with them, nonetheless i have spoken with them about their dysphoria so i'd say i have a fair bit of experience) opinion on something, but to imply that I fear or think lesser of trans people is quite frankly f****** ignorant, given that I've tried as hard as I can to explain that I'm not either of these things. You're actively trying to overgeneralize my opinions on this matter.[/QUOTE]
i like how you censored fucking as to not offend anyone even though you have said far, far more offensive things than that.
[QUOTE=Arc Nova;52195915]i like how you censored fucking as to not offend anyone even though you have said far, far more offensive things than that.[/QUOTE]
Well actually I'm using text-to-speech on my phone right now thanks, really keeping hypocrisy going with all the assumptions lmao
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195899]Feeling sorry for yourself, angry, confused, letting the most offhanded remarks completely throw you off balance, is not a way to live a life.[/QUOTE]
i recommend you read up on borderline personality disorder
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195899]"mental illness" isn't enough to obfuscate and deem irrelevant healthy yet simple advice. It's not some inherently infinitely complex disease that nobody has the answer to[/QUOTE]
sorry but bpd kinda is something nobody has an answer for
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195922]Well actually I'm using text-to-speech on my phone right now thanks, really keeping hypocrisy going with all the assumptions lmao[/QUOTE]
"hahah u guys is the hypocrities!!" isn't a good response to someone genuinely wondering why the almighty fuck "fucking" was censored considering your earlier posts.
Are you going to actually play nicely and explain your position properly, or keep probing for "gotchas"? Because in 6 pages we've basically gotten no further than finally understanding that you feel genuinely anxious when referring to people by pronouns that don't match their appearance. Which is asinine, after all they're "just words" right? Why should it matter?
-snip-
you're seriously just talking into your phone arguing about this shit here
i hope you aren't in public because goddamn
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195942]It's not the outright advice they give, however they imply it through extensive questioning over several months/years worth of counseling. The end result is the patient himself coming to the conclusion that what he's doing is irrational.
Of course case studies vary, because it's not a hard science, however this is the current common practice among mental health professionals.[/QUOTE]
A chemical imbalance in the brain is not "being irrational" though, man.
It's a legitimate [I]disease[/I] that is, very often, treated with actual medication because "changing how you think" is impossible without assistance.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195953]I was referring to less severe mental illnesses like dysphoria and depression, I should have made that clear.[/QUOTE]
good job invalidating mental illnesses by calling them "less severe"
shows just how much you understand
[QUOTE=Saturn V;52195962]good job invalidating mental illnesses by calling them "less severe"
shows just how much you understand[/QUOTE]
keep moving your goalposts
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195975]keep moving your goalposts[/QUOTE]
This doesn't even make sense.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52195976]This doesn't even make sense.[/QUOTE]
marbalo addressed saturn, and when saturn was confused by it, clarified precisely what he meant. saturn then completely changed the subject from the trans issue at hand to the severity of various mental disorders. he changed the goal of the discussion that marbalo was trying to reach. moving the goalposts.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52195986]This is completely false.
We are capable of controlling, to some extent, the chemical balance in our brain by default. Through actions we consciously decide to take, like for example eating your favourite food, walking on the beach at just the right time, making love to your spouse, etc. we can alter the chemical balance in our brains as such to feel particular emotions, and can force a state of mind unto ourselves practically at will.
If this happens frequently enough, it becomes what we know as a habit. Or if a different chemical is released during a different action we do, it becomes a thing we try to avoid doing.
If a large enough amount of chemicals is released at once we might experience an epiphany, or a total shift in perspective altogether. This is a very crude explanation but claiming that we cant control the chemicals in our brain and can only do so with the help of medication is a lack of understanding of how the brain works.[/QUOTE]
I meant that people with depression cannot always, by themselves, correct the imbalance of chemicals that they are pre-dispositioned to.
Neurotypical people are much more in control of their brain processes because they're not, y'know. Depressed.
[editline]6th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Baconator 7;52195994]marbalo addressed saturn, and when saturn was confused by it, clarified precisely what he meant. saturn then completely changed the subject from the trans issue at hand to the severity of various mental disorders. he changed the goal of the discussion that marbalo was trying to reach. moving the goalposts.[/QUOTE]
Mental illness and transgender issues are related.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52196007]Mental illness and transgender issues are related.[/QUOTE]
i've also read some research suggesting that gender dysphoria might be a subset of borderline personality disorder even though its because being trans can be a very traumatic thing and bpd tends to be correlated with traumatic experiences
from what i've seen and experienced myself, a lot of trans people exhibit signs of BPD
I think people's problems is when they give a name to every single "state of mind" a person who doesn't identifies as any of the binary genders may have.
Theres male, female, and people who are stuck inbetween, be it one more than the other, or maybe both. But then theres people who don't identify at all with any of those and just call it some exotic sounding gender.
I think thats it at least. Correct me and my train of thought if I am wrong.
I mean, why would you say you don't identify with anything other than something that could almost be "measured" in some kind of imaginary system?
[QUOTE=gtanoofa;52196048]Could you provide the research that you just mentioned? I have met a small number of transpeople who have been diagnosed with bpd.[/QUOTE]
exhibiting symptoms doesnt mean you have the disorder and a lot of psychiatrists may refuse to provide a diagnosis because they are already trans, so i've read.
[url]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/[/url]
however there is a lot of contradicting stuff in there but whatever i guess
i have bpd myself so im pretty biased i guess and i just kinda want to not feel alone so maybe im just lying to myself? not sure
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52196046]Of course.
However would you not agree that whilst not everyone is capable of fully controlling their brain processes and emotional patterns, it shouldn't be discouraged to at least try to?
This is why I've been saying to grow thicker skin. It wasn't meant as an insult. It wasn't meant as a backhanded attempt to belittle the real struggles of trans people - because your perceived mental state of mind is just as real as your issues. And what's also real, is the fact that you may be able to consciously take control of at least some of the chemicals in your brain if you truly devote to it, to perhaps alleviate your mental struggles, if not your external ones, by creating a form of severance between the two.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, you're putting this method of recovery up on a pedestal like it's something mentally ill people have never thought of before when, in reality, people who suffer from these illnesses have tried "changing their frame of mind" first and [I]foremost[/I] before they sought out some harder therapy or medication.
I'm depressed. I'm anxious. And while certain things have made the impact of these illnesses on me less, I can't attribute it to just [I]thinking differently.[/I] It took therapists and medication and support and years and years of work and effort and different pathways to make the progress I've made. And I'm [I]still[/I] not "cured".
You can't make the assumption that people haven't attempted that before. Because lots of people have. And it doesn't always work.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52195529]the thing is as much as the world might be a better place if gender norms didnt exist and it wasn't even a concept, it's not gonna happen and people want to identify that way. so why not compromise and be respectful?[/QUOTE]
I don't intend to disrespect anyone. But yeah I too have to go for the boring compromise for now.
While I stand for what I posted, I do refer to trans people as what they want to be referred to as whenever that situation comes up, cause I don't like offending people.
[QUOTE=Beetle179;52194067]The same psychological and physical differences that say women are predisposed to being good dishwashers and men are predisposed to being good with powertools? Nah[/QUOTE]
You are being intentionally obtuse. You obviously know what I mean.
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