TIME- "Exclusive: Marvel’s New Iron Man Is a Black Woman" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;50661246]i've been asking direct questions and responding clearly[/QUOTE] You responded with the clearness of a surly drunk being told to walk in a straight line, missing the line, and heading into oncoming traffic.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;50661227]what a nice way to escape actual argument[/QUOTE] I'm at a loss for words

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;50661246]i've been asking direct questions and responding clearly[/QUOTE] You aren't self aware it seems Because you've been doing the exact opposite You have been constantly strawmanning and ignoring the points that directly contradict you.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;50661218] looks a bit like it[/QUOTE] Nice. All of the lack of self awareness and self deception of a bad f2p pub.

So, I've read the whole thread. [QUOTE=SleepyAl;50661208]This whole thread just shows which people don't care about Marvel comics. The people who comes in, with no attachment to any of the characters, no understanding of how fans are attached to said characters, no idea about the writing involved and story telling, and just get up on their high horse, claim "you guys are insecure about your race, this is fine" while boldly ignoring every thoughtful and purposeful post fans have made about why they are displeased about this trend of replacing established characters with walking cardboard. People shitposting, misinterpreting posts to portray those who don't think like them as bigots, acting "progressive" just for an inflated sense of ego, wanting to feel that they are better than others because they are more "accepting" of race, when the majority of comic book fans have favorite superheroes who are of different races/sexes/genders/sexualities and are perfectly okay with the creation of new heroes of different backgrounds. These new characters replacing established characters are flat, poorly written, and solely exist to gain new fans while throwing old ones under the bus. It'd be like replacing Cyborg from Teen Titans/Justice League with a female Asian out of the blue because the old one retired or died or something, and every so often she has to remind people she's Asian mid battle and has a vagina, and by the way she's way better than the old Cyborg in every way and is [I]totally[/I] not a Mary Sue guys, honest. It's so pretentious. Seriously. Nobody here has any good arguments for this character change other than "why not." Blah blah blah No True Scotsman but its obvious who here reads the particular comics affected, knows who the hack writer is, and who doesn't give a crap but won't pass up an opportunity to feel superior. I mean the amount of times AaronM202 has retold his exact same points yet nobody cares enough about the topic to read it and only came into the thread to be smug is disheartening.[/QUOTE] This, right here. This sums up the whole thread, and the attitude behind the posters who just act all holier-than-thou and belittle those who know more about a comic book character than what's portrayed in a movie. It's truly comical how many of the "lol you're just offended, grow up" types rage at the sane and well-adjusted fans saying (and elaborating valid arguments) that this is a terrible idea, but what do they do? they whine incessantly, dropping every ad hominem they can think of, or even worse, they can follow along a convo. It's so annoying and it adds absolutely nothing of value.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;50661246]i've been asking direct questions and responding clearly[/QUOTE] You've literally been asking people why over and over again and your first post in this thread may as well have been a shitpost

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;50661246]i've been asking direct questions and responding clearly[/QUOTE] Yeah, no you havent. It seems more likely you chase after shadows thats not really there instead of doing anything directly or clearly.

I think a young teen prodigy master in their field is a lame character background and reason for Iron Man to notice her. To reverse engineer a complex piece of tech like the iron man suit at 15 would mean she probably did not have a childhood for the shit tonnes of work she would have had to put in to understand all of the things that would be needed to make it. And pass her classes, graduate high school before 15 and then go through college at 15. Unless this is her 3rd or 4th year of college, she would have had to go through at minimum: Aerospace Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Computer Science and Nuclear Engineering. I doubt they have any of that in primary school, and theres no way she could get all of that in 3-4 years of college and still be mentally sane.

[QUOTE=Hey I'm Grump;50661287]I think a young teen prodigy master in their field is a lame character background and reason for Iron Man to notice her. To reverse engineer a complex piece of tech like the iron man suit at 15 would mean she probably did not have a childhood for the shit tonnes of work she would have had to put in to understand all of the things that would be needed to make it. And pass her classes, graduate high school before 15 and then go through college at 15. Unless this is her 3rd or 4th year of college, she would have had to go through at minimum: Aerospace Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Computer Science and Nuclear Engineering. I doubt they have any of that in primary school, and theres no way she could get all of that in 3-4 years of college and still be mentally sane.[/QUOTE] This is a comic book though

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;50661208]This whole thread just shows which people don't care about Marvel comics. The people who comes in, with no attachment to any of the characters, no understanding of how fans are attached to said characters, no idea about the writing involved and story telling, and just get up on their high horse, claim "you guys are insecure about your race, this is fine" while boldly ignoring every thoughtful and purposeful post fans have made about why they are displeased about this trend of replacing established characters with walking cardboard. People shitposting, misinterpreting posts to portray those who don't think like them as bigots, acting "progressive" just for an inflated sense of ego, wanting to feel that they are better than others because they are more "accepting" of race, when the majority of comic book fans have favorite superheroes who are of different races/sexes/genders/sexualities and are perfectly okay with the creation of new heroes of different backgrounds. These new characters replacing established characters are flat, poorly written, and solely exist to gain new fans while throwing old ones under the bus. It'd be like replacing Cyborg from Teen Titans/Justice League with a female Asian out of the blue because the old one retired or died or something, and every so often she has to remind people she's Asian mid battle and has a vagina, and by the way she's way better than the old Cyborg in every way and is [I]totally[/I] not a Mary Sue guys, honest. It's so pretentious. Seriously. Nobody here has any good arguments for this character change other than "why not." Blah blah blah No True Scotsman but its obvious who here reads the particular comics affected, knows who the hack writer is, and who doesn't give a crap but won't pass up an opportunity to feel superior. I mean the amount of times AaronM202 has retold his exact same points yet nobody cares enough about the topic to read it and only came into the thread to be smug is disheartening.[/QUOTE] Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50661300]This is a comic book though[/QUOTE] shit excuse for something. Hand waves, while they might be used, are not a satisfactory excuse for why a 15 year old can master a shit ton of sciences and stuff and not have gone crazy from the pressure of mastering it all by 15. A good story explains why and how they got somewhere, not just fucking say "oh, they just know it and can do it cause its a comic booook"

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661309]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] Christ would you please just take the time to read, i've gone over this.

[QUOTE=Hey I'm Grump;50661287]I think a young teen prodigy master in their field is a lame character background and reason for Iron Man to notice her. To reverse engineer a complex piece of tech like the iron man suit at 15 would mean she probably did not have a childhood for the shit tonnes of work she would have had to put in to understand all of the things that would be needed to make it. And pass her classes, graduate high school before 15 and then go through college at 15. Unless this is her 3rd or 4th year of college, she would have had to go through at minimum: Aerospace Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Computer Science and Nuclear Engineering. I doubt they have any of that in primary school, and theres no way she could get all of that in 3-4 years of college and still be mentally sane.[/QUOTE] Unrealistic geniuses who have more in common with tech wizards than actual scientists are a staple of superhero settings since early 20th century

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50661317]Christ would you please just take the time to read, i've gone over this.[/QUOTE] Who said I was addressing you? I really don't care about you anymore.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661309]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] Have you read anything on the last 10+ pages? Most posters do not agree with the character being replaced, period. No one mentioned anything about the content of the color of the replacement. It could have been an 11-year-old Irish boy and people would still disagree with the replacement.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661325]Who said I was addressing you? I really don't care about you anymore.[/QUOTE] Because i EXPLAINED why it was brought up. Damn, just like Sirius, you cant read. You dont care cause im not saying racist shit, right? I bet thats it. Im not throwing slurs around, right? Only reason i can think of for you bringing race back into it is so you can find some reason to call somebody racist.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661309]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] It's NOT about the fact that she's black. It's about that Marvel is using her race to pander to an audience meanwhile pissing off their main readers because its an illogical replacement to be honest. Do you not get that?

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50661300]This is a comic book though[/QUOTE] No one says "it's a video game" or "it's a movie" to excuse story and character logic in such forms of media that have those elements be prominent. A comic book, Marvel, DC or otherwise can't just be explained away with such a simple statement. Yes, these are the same universes that make up science and give a middle finger to logic time and time again (like the time Kitty Pride made a gigantic bullet aimed to destroy the entire Earth turn intangible to phase through the planet and [i]lived[/i]), but considering the circumstances of the character here, it's going to be under intense scrutiny. And to play Devil's Advocate, Tony himself created the Iron Man suit in pretty implausible circumstances while simultaneously suffering the danger of a failing heart, but he's considered a huge badass for it. I'm sure there's teen or child geniuses in the Marvel universes that have done things that make an MIT graduate creating her own Iron Man suit look like child's play. We don't even know how functional Riri's new suit is, and I doubt it's even military-armed off the bat. Judging by the description i'd assume she essentially got a functional system together like a power armor of sorts based off of the Iron Man suit but not as capable outright.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661309]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] hey do me a favor read the thread or at the very least the last couple pages sincerely everyone

[QUOTE=RikohZX;50661372] And to play Devil's Advocate, Tony himself created the Iron Man suit in pretty implausible circumstances while simultaneously suffering the danger of a failing heart, but he's considered a huge badass for it. I'm sure there's teen or child geniuses in the Marvel universes that have done things that make an MIT graduate creating her own Iron Man suit look like child's play. We don't even know how functional Riri's new suit is, and I doubt it's even military-armed off the bat. Judging by the description i'd assume she essentially got a functional system together like a power armor of sorts based off of the Iron Man suit but not as capable outright.[/QUOTE] To be fair, Tony's first suit was pretty much scrap metal being held together by duct tape made out of i think spare missile and vehicle parts.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50661385]To be fair, Tony's first suit was pretty much scrap metal being held together by duct tape made out of i think spare missile and vehicle parts.[/QUOTE] That too. Like I said, it was pretty extreme circumstances. Someone having plenty of spare time and education in a less stressful environment is probably a lot easier time in creating a suit like this.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50661383]hey do me a favor read the thread or at the very least the last couple pages sincerely everyone[/QUOTE] Nah then they wouldn't be able to use a tired canned argument (that in order to even be valid, loads of words had to be shoved in other peoples mouths).

One time when I was in middle school I wanted to start my own comic and was like hell yeah this is gonna be great but as I sat down to get started I had the legitimate concern that "is it legal for me to make my own character. do i NEED A PERMIT????" I have no idea why I thought that was the case and I wound up making shitty sprite comics instead because I wouldn't get in trouble with the law then. Just fucking stupid and I'm glad this thread reminded me of that.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;50661397]That too. Like I said, it was pretty extreme circumstances. Someone having plenty of spare time and education in a less stressful environment is probably a lot easier time in creating a suit like this.[/QUOTE] yeah, but where is she getting the money for reverse-engineering the suit and making one of her own? it was obviously good enough to get Tony's attention. Now i'm no story writer, but i'd like it better if she was an obvious bright student by 15 and was noticed by Tony Stark and developed a relationship with him in that he funded her advancements and work and like when she was some age she managed to fully remake an iron man suit, it makes more sense and still capitalizes on her being a child prodigy and moving forward from that. I dunno if theres gonna be a deeper backstory with her, but i feel thats better in some ways. I dunno, just throwing out some tired thoughts looking at her backstory now, she worked solo on the armor as a secret project and stole the parts needed to make the suit until she had made it. Then she just flew away from campus essentially.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50661335]Have you read anything on the last 10+ pages? Most posters do not agree with the character being replaced, period. No one mentioned anything about the content of the color of the replacement. It could have been an 11-year-old Irish boy and people would still disagree with the replacement.[/QUOTE] Plenty of people have mentioned the skin color or brought up her gender. Just look on the first page. Yes. I didn't bother to read the back and forth between sinus and aaron because it was just flaming between the both of them. [QUOTE=AaronM202;50661343]Because i EXPLAINED why it was brought up. Damn, just like Sirius, you cant read. You dont care cause im not saying racist shit, right? I bet thats it. Im not throwing slurs around, right? Only reason i can think of for you bringing race back into it is so you can find some reason to call somebody racist.[/QUOTE] You need to chill. I don't read your posts because they're not worth reading. You bitch and whine about people misunderstanding you, then you bitch and whine that people aren't reading you posts. You should put two and two together. I took 1 look at the argument between you and Sinus and said "This is not a person I want to have an adult conversation with." You're further proving my point by comparing me to someone you don't like, and that I'm only avoiding you because you're not saying any racist shit. It would be the best for both of us to ignore eachother.

I would like the people who are disagreeing/arguing about this topic to read these two posts very carefully, as they seem to do a pretty good job of summarizing the arguments made. Please read and respond to these posts: [QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;50660648]Chalking up everything as simply 'insecurity' is a blatant disregard to any reasonable points people have made and makes a poor generalization of the matter. In this thread, people have voiced their displeasure with Marvel's current trend of marketing towards the ~progressive~ crowds making these changes appear contrived and just lazy; where the creators blatantly and poorly introduce these characters for the sole purpose of catering to that demographic (Pointed out extensively by their own self-awareness). It's so easy to just say that someone dislikes it because they're racists/homophobes/what have you whilst ignoring other points regarding characterization or storytelling; it's a scapegoat answer, especially knowing that the double standard exists. These are beloved, and established characters, whose namesake is being used to push a 'progressive' image in their comics- I believe- because they lack the confidence to come up with brand new properties.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=SleepyAl;50661208]This whole thread just shows which people don't care about Marvel comics. The people who comes in, with no attachment to any of the characters, no understanding of how fans are attached to said characters, no idea about the writing involved and story telling, and just get up on their high horse, claim "you guys are insecure about your race, this is fine" while boldly ignoring every thoughtful and purposeful post fans have made about why they are displeased about this trend of replacing established characters with walking cardboard. People shitposting, misinterpreting posts to portray those who don't think like them as bigots, acting "progressive" just for an inflated sense of ego, wanting to feel that they are better than others because they are more "accepting" of race, when the majority of comic book fans have favorite superheroes who are of different races/sexes/genders/sexualities and are perfectly okay with the creation of new heroes of different backgrounds. These new characters replacing established characters are flat, poorly written, and solely exist to gain new fans while throwing old ones under the bus. It'd be like replacing Cyborg from Teen Titans/Justice League with a female Asian out of the blue because the old one retired or died or something, and every so often she has to remind people she's Asian mid battle and has a vagina, and by the way she's way better than the old Cyborg in every way and is [I]totally[/I] not a Mary Sue guys, honest. It's so pretentious. Seriously. Nobody here has any good arguments for this character change other than "why not." Blah blah blah No True Scotsman but its obvious who here reads the particular comics affected, knows who the hack writer is, and who doesn't give a crap but won't pass up an opportunity to feel superior. I mean the amount of times AaronM202 has retold his exact same points yet nobody cares enough about the topic to read it and only came into the thread to be smug is disheartening.[/QUOTE] Please read and response to the above posts. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661461]Plenty of people have mentioned the skin color or brought up her gender. Just look on the first page. Yes. I didn't bother to read the back and forth between sinus and aaron because it was just flaming between the both of them. You need to chill. I don't read your posts because they're not worth reading. You bitch and whine about people misunderstanding you, then you bitch and whine that people aren't reading you posts. You should put two and two together. I took 1 look at the argument between you and Sinus and said "This is not a person I want to have an adult conversation with." You're further proving my point by comparing me to someone you don't like, and that I'm only avoiding you because you're not saying any racist shit. It would be the best for both of us to ignore eachother.[/QUOTE] To be fair, everyone else in this thread is complaining about you or SIRUIS or whoever not reading posts, maybe there's something to it? And besides, if you aren't going to bother reading the posts people make, why are you posting in this thread?

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661461]Plenty of people have mentioned the skin color or brought up her gender. Just look on the first page.[/QUOTE] Because. Marvel. Has. A. Habit. Of. Replacing. White. Characters. With. Minorities. People were making an observation. People took note of it. And people speculated she was created solely for diversities sake. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661461]Yes. I didn't bother to read the back and forth between sinus and aaron because it was just flaming between the both of them.[/QUOTE] Good thing most of my points were made against you then, right? [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661461]You need to chill. I don't read your posts because they're not worth reading. You bitch and whine about people misunderstanding you, then you bitch and whine that people aren't reading you posts. You should put two and two together. I took 1 look at the argument between you and Sinus and said "This is not a person I want to have an adult conversation with." You're further proving my point by comparing me to someone you don't like, and that I'm only avoiding you because you're not saying any racist shit. It would be the best for both of us to ignore eachother.[/QUOTE] So to justify ignoring my arguments you're just telling me to fuck off for getting fed up with people ignoring my arguments.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661461]Plenty of people have mentioned the skin color or brought up her gender. Just look on the first page. Yes. I didn't bother to read the back and forth between sinus and aaron because it was just flaming between the both of them. You need to chill. I don't read your posts because they're not worth reading. You bitch and whine about people misunderstanding you, then you bitch and whine that people aren't reading you posts. You should put two and two together. I took 1 look at the argument between you and Sinus and said "This is not a person I want to have an adult conversation with." You're further proving my point by comparing me to someone you don't like, and that I'm only avoiding you because you're not saying any racist shit. It would be the best for both of us to ignore eachother.[/QUOTE] Please provide proof that any of those comments were actually serious for your first point. [QUOTE]I don't read your posts because they're not worth reading. [/QUOTE] No, you don't read them because they contradict you and you don't want to be proven wrong. Also, what is your response to my post because clearly it seems my post wasn't worth reading either and instead you continue strawmanning like usual.

I'd hardly call AaronM202 trolling or flaming, that guy has his head in the right place during most of this. He's explained everything and hasn't just set up a ton of strawman arguments so good on him.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;50661352]It's NOT about the fact that she's black. It's about that Marvel is using her race to pander to an audience meanwhile pissing off their main readers because its an illogical replacement to be honest. Do you not get that?[/QUOTE] I never claimed that anyone here was upset because they're racist. Only thing I've ever said remotely similar to that was that people were making some really questionable jokes about transgendered people. I don't think I recall ever getting upset with anyone here if they thought that the writer was pandering. Here are my points so that people have an understanding of what I'm saying. It seems that I'm unclear. - Wait and see if the comic is actually bad before making a judgement on whether or not the comic is going to be trash. - If you're mad at Tony Stark getting replaced, then that's fine. - If you're mad at the fact that this is pandering, then that's fine. [QUOTE=joshuadim;50661513]Please provide proof that any of those comments were actually serious for your first point.[/quote] Them being serious was irrelevant. If you read my posts before (oh boy) you would see my explanation on why I found them questionable. [QUOTE=joshuadim;50661513][quote]I don't read your posts because they're not worth reading.[/quote] No, you don't read them because they contradict you and you don't want to be proven wrong. [/quote] Please prove this. [quote] Also, what is your response to my post because clearly it seems my post wasn't worth reading either and instead you continue strawmanning like usual. [/QUOTE] I literally agreed with your post, I don't know what else you want me to say. [QUOTE=AaronM202;50661477]So to justify ignoring my arguments you're just telling me to fuck off for getting fed up with people ignoring my arguments.[/QUOTE] Just like how marvel has a habbit of pandering to people, you have proven to have a habbit of getting heated. I don't want to argue with people who do this.