TIME- "Exclusive: Marvel’s New Iron Man Is a Black Woman" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661544]- Wait and see if the comic is actually bad before making a judgement on whether or not the comic is going to be trash.[/QUOTE] Brian Michael Bendis, so its confirmed to be garbage. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661544]Just like how marvel has a habbit of pandering to people, you have proven to have a habbit of getting heated. I don't want to argue with people who do this.[/QUOTE] So, does that make me wrong somehow? Does it disprove anything ive said? Somehow invalidating my points?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50661551]So, does that make me wrong somehow? Does it disprove anything ive said? Somehow invalidating my points?[/QUOTE] No it doesn't. Absolutely not. You could be the angriest person in the world, and still be right. I don't want to find out if that person isn't acting like an adult.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661544]I never claimed that anyone here was upset because they're racist. Only thing I've ever said remotely similar to that was that people were making some really questionable jokes about transgendered people. 1)I don't think I recall ever getting upset with anyone here if they thought that the writer was pandering. Here are my points so that people have an understanding of what I'm saying. It seems that I'm unclear. - Wait and see if the comic is actually bad before making a judgement on whether or not the comic is going to be trash. - If you're mad at Tony Stark getting replaced, then that's fine. - If you're mad at the fact that this is pandering, then that's fine. 2)Them being serious was irrelevant. If you read my posts before (oh boy) you would see my explanation on why I found them questionable. 3)Please prove this. I literally agreed with your post, I don't know what else you want me to say. 4)Just like how marvel has a habbit of pandering to people, you have proven to have a habbit of getting heated.[/QUOTE] 1)what??? You have been constantly bringing up the issue of race here when I clearly stated THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE 2)I should read your posts for your "proof" while you do the exact opposite for other people? Logic is amazing here 3)your posts say enough for themselves here 4)what does this have to do with the debate? Absolutely nothing. Go ahead and try to make a bad analogy again

Thing is Bendis has proven to be bad. That's the thing. If this was a totally new writer, someone green they got on the job myself and others might still be wary but this person COULD be good. Bendis hasn't produced a single good thing that I can recall and is infamous for turning stuff to trash. There's no wait and see when his track record is below average at all times. That's why people don't want to give it a chance. I will legit be shocked if this character isn't a mouthpiece/cardboard cutout.

Whether it's pandering or not is debatable. I'm just glad it's not "Tony Stark is now a black woman". There's no reason to overwrite established characters when it's easier to and successful to claim the name of the hero is merely a mantle of an idea and not the person like Batman and Green Lanterns.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661544]I never claimed that anyone here was upset because they're racist. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661309]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. [/QUOTE] What? Seriously read the thread ehbuddy

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661544]I never claimed that anyone here was upset because they're racist. Only thing I've ever said remotely similar to that was that people were making some really questionable jokes about transgendered people.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50658893]people just need a scapegoat to blame for problems, the problem in this case being... wait what exactly is the problem? whats wrong with nick fury being black? is it because he's black?[/QUOTE] You implied that people have a problem with nick fury being black (which they don't) because he's black. Even if that was not your intention and you misread the post you were responding to (which you might've done more than once) you still made the assumption that a poster was racist because you misread their post. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50659236]As much as I dislike BDA for overreacting sometimes I have to defend him here. In the world of extremism, where people are saying that exact same shit unironically and people are defending that say shit ironically, it's really hard to tell if someone is joking. It's Poe's law.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50659311]Clearly not because I know for a fact that 3 of those posters are neoconservatives who believe that it's actually happening and have made unironic posts before defending their stance. Then would it be fair for me to say "It's really hard to see it as a joke without a righist lense that they're seeing everything through, because they mostly agree with what the poster is saying." No it wouldn't be. It wouldn't at all. See the thing with jokes is that there is a time and a place for the right jokes. Let's say that I'm on a forum where 10% of the people who go on it genuinely believe that the jews control everything, and I'm in a thread where there's a news article where the ceo of google has stepped down, and that a man of jewish decent stepped in and people are saying that they don't like the idea of this jewish man running things because of reasons... Would it be a good idea to post stereotypical rhetoric involving how jews control everything?[/QUOTE] Again you (vaguely) imply that posters were proclaiming racist/offensive/bigotted things and continue to misinterpret posts, and then you backpedal when people inform you that the posters were joking but at the same time claim that the posters are still somewhat racist/offensive/bigotted because you couldn't tell they were joking (assuming that it's their fault you keep misinterpreting people). After that, you post pretty much nothing but vague snipes at people like [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50659611]This isn't political commentary! Those are clearly jokes![/QUOTE] Which doesn't really demonstrate any understanding of the situation. Tl;Dr: You came into the thread and came to a conclusion that everyone here was a bigot because you misinterpreted their posts, then you spent the next 9 pages backpedaling and vaguely insulting people because your entire argument is based on a misinterpretation. So I ask you this, do you believe that the people who have disagreed with you in this thread have done so because they are in some way insecure/bigotted/racist or because they have genuine reasons for thinking the way they do with regards to storytelling conventions that you happen to disagree with?

[QUOTE=joshuadim;50661573]1)what??? You have been constantly bringing up the issue of race here when I clearly stated THAT'S NOT THE ISSUE[/quote] Constantly? Can you please give me the posts where I brought up race? I think I brought up race about three times out of my 20 posts here? One was a reply to when I thought someone literally said "Nick Fury was awful because he was black" when it was the opposite. One was when I mentioned jews, but that was in an analogy to compare humor. One was when I talked about "If you made this issue about race [quote]2)I should read your posts for your "proof" while you do the exact opposite for other people? Logic is amazing here[/quote] I read his posts relevant to the humor part. I argued with him about the humor. I didn't read his posts with Saliva or w/e that guys name was because it was a shitshow, and I didn't care to what either of them have to say because all I saw was shitflinging. [quote] 3)your posts say enough for themselves here [/quote] Could you please explain to me what this means? I'm not sure what this means. [quote]4)what does this have to do with the debate? Absolutely nothing. Go ahead and try to make a bad analogy again[/QUOTE] I thought it was obvious that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so I don't get the point of this quip.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661634]Constantly? Can you please give me the posts where I brought up race? I think I brought up race about three times out of my 20 posts here? One was a reply to when I thought someone literally said "Nick Fury was awful because he was black" when it was the opposite. One was when I mentioned jews, but that was in an analogy to compare humor. One was when I talked about "If you made this issue about race I read his posts relevant to the humor part. I argued with him about the humor. I didn't read his posts with Saliva or w/e that guys name was because it was a shitshow, and I didn't care to what either of them have to say because all I saw was shitflinging. Could you please explain to me what this means? I'm not sure what this means. I thought it was obvious that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so I don't get the point of this quip.[/QUOTE] My god how dense can you be. Nope, I'm done arguing with the likes of you. It's clear you cannot comprehend any form of crticism/opposition to your own views/arguments.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661634]Constantly? Can you please give me the posts where I brought up race? [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661309]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661634]Constantly? Can you please give me the posts where I brought up race? I think I brought up race about three times out of my 20 posts here? One was a reply to when I thought someone literally said "Nick Fury was awful because he was black" when it was the opposite. One was when I mentioned jews, but that was in an analogy to compare humor. One was when I talked about "If you made this issue about race I read his posts relevant to the humor part. I argued with him about the humor. I didn't read his posts with Saliva or w/e that guys name was because it was a shitshow, and I didn't care to what either of them have to say because all I saw was shitflinging. Could you please explain to me what this means? I'm not sure what this means. I thought it was obvious that it has nothing to do with the topic at hand, so I don't get the point of this quip.[/QUOTE] Your whole argument exists on the basis that the arguments people have made with regards to whether or not this is good storytelling is irrelevant because in reality those posters are disingenuous and are actually insecure/bigotted/etc. If this is not the argument you're making then you are definitely backpedaling since you have no argument at all aside from meaningless snipes. You misread posts from just about everyone from the moment you came into the thread, is it really that unreasonable that people complain about your inability to read posts correctly? You seem to be unwilling to admit your initial response to people's posts was incorrect and based on misinterpretation. You're clinging onto an argument that doesn't exist. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=AaronM202;50661667]Then people should be complaining about the fact that one of their favorite characters are being replaced, NOT the fact that the new character is a Black Woman. You have every right to be upset that your favorite character is getting replaced, but when you start making the issue entirely about race then tbh you're a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE] Yea thanks, I missed that one

[QUOTE=SleepyAl;50661208]This whole thread just shows which people don't care about Marvel comics. The people who comes in, with no attachment to any of the characters, no understanding of how fans are attached to said characters, no idea about the writing involved and story telling, and just get up on their high horse, claim "you guys are insecure about your race, this is fine" while boldly ignoring every thoughtful and purposeful post fans have made about why they are displeased about this trend of replacing established characters with walking cardboard. People shitposting, misinterpreting posts to portray those who don't think like them as bigots, acting "progressive" just for an inflated sense of ego, wanting to feel that they are better than others because they are more "accepting" of race, when the majority of comic book fans have favorite superheroes who are of different races/sexes/genders/sexualities and are perfectly okay with the creation of new heroes of different backgrounds. These new characters replacing established characters are flat, poorly written, and solely exist to gain new fans while throwing old ones under the bus. It'd be like replacing Cyborg from Teen Titans/Justice League with a female Asian out of the blue because the old one retired or died or something, and every so often she has to remind people she's Asian mid battle and has a vagina, and by the way she's way better than the old Cyborg in every way and is [I]totally[/I] not a Mary Sue guys, honest. It's so pretentious. Seriously. Nobody here has any good arguments for this character change other than "why not." Blah blah blah No True Scotsman but its obvious who here reads the particular comics affected, knows who the hack writer is, and who doesn't give a crap but won't pass up an opportunity to feel superior. I mean the amount of times AaronM202 has retold his exact same points yet nobody cares enough about the topic to read it and only came into the thread to be smug is disheartening.[/QUOTE] You know what the worst part is? They do this shit every fucking time too. It's always the same people who come in on their high horses and act like people who are upset are racist, or sexist, or insecure. All while they couldn't give half a shit about comics unless it's pandering to them. They pat themselves on the back for being progressive and accepting these 'new' heroes and they never bother to read the absolute garbage that these changes result in.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;50661682]You know what the worst part is? They do this shit every fucking time too. It's always the same people who come in on their high horses and act like people who are upset are racist, or sexist, or insecure. All while they couldn't give half a shit about comics unless it's pandering to them. They pat themselves on the back for being progressive and accepting these 'new' heroes and they never bother to read the absolute garbage that these changes result in.[/QUOTE] This is the problem. None of the people these changes are "for" read comics, or ever will, they don't fucking care, they're not interested in the comics, they're interested in us being upset because "What possible reasons could people have to be upset about this besides insecurity?" and they run with it. All of Rofls arguments revolve around how we don't want them because they're black, and ignore the fact the vast, vast majority of us honestly don't give a rat fuck what race someone is if the writing justifies it. And that's the thing, reading these comics, the writing NEVER justifies it. It's always hamfisted, on the nose, on the nail, unsubtle garbage. It isn't a matter of simply preference, the writing in these new books doesn't care about the new characters, and doesn't try and write them well, otherwise, I'd be down with it. What they do is write pandering bullshit, empty crap, over the top crap, on the nose crap, and nothing leaves any room for character development.

[QUOTE=Zyler;50661626]You implied that people have a problem with nick fury being black (which they don't) because he's black. Even if that was not your intention and you misread the post you were responding to (which you might've done more than once) you still made the assumption that a poster was racist because you misread their post.[/quote] I misread their post because I thought it said [QUOTE=DoktorAkcel;50658806]Oh, and another example of[B] UN[/B]successful replacement - Nick Fury. A white man, one of the oldest characters, is now retiring, and then being replaced by his som, who is black. No new super-intelligence, superpowers, being gay helicopter-kin... just a son of original hero, who looks like Samuel Jackson (which probably helped a lot, but still)[/QUOTE] And which I admitted 2 minutes later. [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50659030]I misread the post that was quoted. I thought he was complaining that Nick Fury was a white character being turned into a black character.[/QUOTE] If you're persecuting me for a mistake that I quickly corrected, then I'm sorry. [quote]Again you (vaguely) imply that posters were proclaiming racist/offensive/bigotted things and continue to misinterpret posts, and then you backpedal when people inform you that the posters were joking but at the same time claim that the posters are still somewhat racist/offensive/bigotted because you couldn't tell they were joking (assuming that it's their fault you keep misinterpreting people).[/quote] I never backpedaled. Please tell me where I was backpedaling. I questioned the "tumblr-kin jokes" because I was wondering their intentions. Tumblrkin jokes are mainly used by /pol/-esque users. It's like black jokes. Black jokes can be used by people who aren't racist, but if strangers use them in a thread about politics, you question their intent. [quote] After that, you post pretty much nothing but vague snipes at people like Which doesn't really demonstrate any understanding of the situation. [/quote] If you paid attention to my posts (common theme in the thread here), I implying that it was hypocritical to defend political jokes with a confusing message, then attack political jokes with a confusing message. [quote]Tl;Dr: You came into the thread and came to a conclusion that everyone here was a bigot because you misinterpreted their posts, then you spent the next 9 pages backpedaling and vaguely insulting people because your entire argument is based on a misinterpretation.[/QUOTE] Please tell me where I said that everyone was a bigot, or ever implied that. I never implied that anyone here was a bigot, except for that one guy who I thought was complaining about Nick Fury. Next 9 pages, what? Are you confusing me with someone else? I think I only posted for 3 pages, then took a break, then came back after 6 pages of arguing. I never backpedaled in my time here. Really I can't take you seriously if you're pulling claims and making assumptions out of nowhere.

The fact that people continue to defend this and use race as a shield when their argument is literally "well why can't it happen huh?" Is fucking disgusting.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;50661648]My god how dense can you be. Nope, I'm done arguing with the likes of you. It's clear you cannot comprehend any form of crticism/opposition to your own views/arguments.[/QUOTE] I find this incredibly hypocritical considering this: [QUOTE=joshuadim;50661513]No, you don't read them because they contradict you and you don't want to be proven wrong. [/QUOTE] Really if you don't want to debate, that's fine. Just don't get upset when I actually defend myself from the accusations that you pull out of your ass. [QUOTE=AaronM202;50661667]-post-[/QUOTE] Yeah I brought up race once, to say that people who make this issue about race are idiots, which I thought everyone here was agreeing on?

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661754] Yeah I brought up race once, to say that people who make this issue about race are idiots, which I thought everyone here was agreeing on?[/QUOTE] You brought it up randomly on the last page.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50661771]You brought it up randomly on the last page.[/QUOTE] It was nothing random. The person I was replying to was mentioning how people were only mad at the fact that they were being replaced, and not the fact that it's a black woman. So I chimed in that people should be bitching about that.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50661771]You brought it up randomly on the last page.[/QUOTE] Clearly he is the racist

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661723]I misread their post because I thought it said And which I admitted 2 minutes later. If you're persecuting me for a mistake that I quickly corrected, then I'm sorry. I never backpedaled. Please tell me where I was backpedaling. I questioned the "tumblr-kin jokes" because I was wondering their intentions. Tumblrkin jokes are mainly used by /pol/-esque users. It's like black jokes. Black jokes can be used by people who aren't racist, but if strangers use them in a thread about politics, you question their intent. If you paid attention to my posts (common theme in the thread here), I implying that it was hypocritical to defend political jokes with a confusing message, then attack political jokes with a confusing message. Please tell me where I said that everyone was a bigot, or ever implied that. I never implied that anyone here was a bigot, except for that one guy who I thought was complaining about Nick Fury. Next 9 pages, what? Are you confusing me with someone else? I think I only posted for 3 pages, then took a break, then came back after 6 pages of arguing. I never backpedaled in my time here. Really I can't take you seriously if you're pulling claims and making assumptions out of nowhere.[/QUOTE] Can you answer the question I asked instead of avoiding it please. [QUOTE=Zyler;50661626] So I ask you this, do you believe that the people who have disagreed with you in this thread have done so because they are in some way insecure/bigotted/racist or because they have genuine reasons for thinking the way they do with regards to storytelling conventions that you happen to disagree with?[/QUOTE] I'm not persecuting you for a mistake you corrected. I was making two points. First of all, you stated that you didn't bring up race in the thread, but you did, and you were being disengenious. Second of all, [B]I very specifically stated that you're continuing the make the same mistakes over and over again with regards to misinterpreting people's posts and citing that as an example.[/B] [B]You even did it once again by ignoring the question I very specifically asked you to answer and misinterpreting the contention of my post.[/B] [B]Your only argument is that people are saying bad things, but your claim that people are saying bad things is based solely on the fact that you're misinterpreting people. And you continue to misinterpret people when they state that you're misinterpreting them.[/B] So are people actually racist/bigotted/insecure or disengenious or do you actually have a problem with the storytelling conventions they are bringing up (which is the actual argument they are making in the first place)? [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661790]It was nothing random. The person I was replying to was mentioning how people were only mad at the fact that they were being replaced, and not the fact that it's a black woman. So I chimed in that people should be bitching about that.[/QUOTE] [B]What makes you think people are bitching about the character being a black woman? People are not upset because the character is a black woman, period. People have stated multiple times that they support black super heroes but they dislike the work of this specific writer because of the bad writing they produce. You are misinterpreting people's posts. Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/B]

[QUOTE=Zyler;50661801]Can you answer the question I asked instead of avoiding it please.[/quote] I never avoided it. You edited your post after the fact that I posted. [highlight]Can a mod please confirm this?[/highlight] Never in this thread have I avoided a question in a long series of questions in a post. [quote]So I ask you this, do you believe that the people who have disagreed with you in this thread have done so because they are in some way insecure/bigotted/racist or because they have genuine reasons for thinking the way they do with regards to storytelling conventions that you happen to disagree with?[/quote] No. [quote]I'm not persecuting you for a mistake you corrected. I was making two points. First of all, you stated that you didn't bring up race in the thread, but you did, and you were being disengenious. Second of all, [b]I very specifically stated that you're continuing the make the same mistakes over and over again with regards to misinterpreting people's posts and citing that as an example.[/b][/quote] I honestly didn't think that counted as bringing up race. When you said "Bringing up race", I thought you meant bringing up race in the context of an argument ie "You're only doing this because she's black!" or "You can't talk about this because she's black!" [quote][b]You even did it once again by ignoring the question I very specifically asked you to answer and misinterpreting the contention of my post.[/b][/quote] Again, can a mod confirm that there was an edit? I want to know so I could get my eyes checked. [quote][b]Your only argument is that people are saying bad things, but your claim that people are saying bad things is based solely on the fact that you're misinterpreting people. And you continue to misinterpret people when they state that you're misinterpreting them.[/b][/quote] If you read my argument about humor, you would understand what I'm getting at. [quote]So are people actually racist/bigotted/insecure or disengenious or do you actually have a problem with the storytelling conventions they are bringing up (which is the actual argument they are making in the first place)?[/QUOTE] Not that I know, of no. Instant assumption that everyone here isn't, but when they start posting some questionable shit, you start to question people's intent.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661874]Not that I know, of no. Instant assumption that everyone here isn't, but when they start posting some questionable shit, you start to question people's intent.[/QUOTE] "I'm not saying you're racist, but . . ."

[QUOTE=Zyler;50661801]What makes you think people are bitching about the character being a black woman? People are not upset because the character is a black woman, period. People have stated multiple times that they support black super heroes but they dislike the work of this specific writer because of the bad writing they produce. You are misinterpreting people's posts. Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/QUOTE] People are upset because the character is a black woman. It even says in the article. Could it be people here? Unlikely.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661874] Not that I know, of no. Instant assumption that everyone here isn't, but when they start posting some questionable shit, you start to question people's intent.[/QUOTE] Ahh. Told you he'd try and call somebody racist.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50661903]"I'm not saying you're racist, but . . ."[/QUOTE] Toss me in the irons for questioning shitposters posting tumblrkin memes!

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661910]People are upset because the character is a black woman. It even says in the article. Could it be people here? Unlikely.[/QUOTE] They're not upset because she's a black woman, they're upset that a random black woman is replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661921]Toss me in the irons for questioning shitposters posting tumblrkin memes![/QUOTE] Nobody was doing that. You brought it up.

ITT: "Bad writing is fine, you guys just hate minorities!!!" the fuck is even going on here?

[QUOTE=Monkah;50661961]ITT: "Bad writing is fine, you guys just hate minorities!!!" the fuck is even going on here?[/QUOTE] Excuses.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661921]Toss me in the irons for questioning shitposters posting tumblrkin memes![/QUOTE] the phrase is "clap me in irons" if you think someone is racist, just fucking say "I think X is racist for Y reason". Don't dance around it with that passive aggressive shit.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50661929]They're not upset because she's a black woman, they're upset that a random black woman is replacing Tony Stark as Iron Man.[/quote] Some people flipped their fucking shit when Ms. Marvel was released. [quote]Nobody was doing that. You brought it up.[/QUOTE] First page dude. Read it.