TIME- "Exclusive: Marvel’s New Iron Man Is a Black Woman" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661874] No.[/QUOTE] [b]It was not a yes or no question.[/b] Please response to the question. Are the people who disagree with you in this thread either: A) Disingenuous in their arguments because they are insecure/closested bigots/racist/whatever. I.E. they don't believe what they're saying with regards disliking someone because they don't like the writer. OR B)They have genuine reasons for believing what they do. I.E. they genuinely dislike this writer and the stuff they write because it is badly written.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661979]Some people flipped their fucking shit when Ms. Marvel was released.[/QUOTE] yeah, and where are those people now nowhere, because it came out and it was decently well written and they stopped caring. you know what series people still hate? the poorly written ones. I wonder why that is. like I mean sure there are always going to be a group of people complaining about blackies and whities and brownies and whatever because that's just the fucking human race, but you have to kind of filter that sort of thing to a degree

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661979]Some people flipped their fucking shit when Ms. Marvel was released[/QUOTE] Dont tell me. Show me.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50661974]the phrase is "clap me in irons" if you think someone is racist, just fucking say "I think X is racist for Y reason". Don't dance around it with that passive aggressive shit.[/QUOTE] I didn't think anyone here is racist. No one here is racist, as far as I know (except for that one dude with the title if he hasn't changed). I prefer to dance around it as gracefully as possible to avoid making accusations and/or upsetting the person. I rather be asking "What do you mean by this?" instead of "Are you racist by any chance? You sound racist when you say things like xyz"

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661979]Some people flipped their fucking shit when Ms. Marvel was released. First page dude. Read it.[/QUOTE] [B]No.[/B] [B]Noone in this thread is upset simply because the character is black[/B] [B]I stated this in my previous post, you have either ignored it or misinterpreted it.[/B] [B]Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/B] [B]Your entire argument is based on things people have not said[/B] [B]Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/B] Do you understand what I'm saying? [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662006]I didn't think anyone here is racist. No one here is racist, as far as I know (except for that one dude with the title if he hasn't changed). I prefer to dance around it as gracefully as possible to avoid making accusations and/or upsetting the person. I rather be asking "What do you mean by this?" instead of "Are you racist by any chance? You sound racist when you say things like xyz"[/QUOTE] Are the people in this thread upset because the character is black? [B]No they are not. This is a misinterpretation of people's posts. Your argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts. Maybe instead of 'dancing around' the issue. You make your actual argument clear instead of misinterpreting people's posts and sniping at people.[/B]

[QUOTE=Zyler;50662008] Are the people in this thread upset because the character is black? [B]No they are not. This is a misinterpretation of people's posts. Your argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts. Maybe instead of 'dancing around' the issue. You make your actual argument clear instead of misinterpreting people's posts and sniping at people.[/B][/QUOTE] Calling it, next few minutes he'll make a post claiming the obvious jokes were actually serious statements by the, ahem, "Neoconservatives."

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50661910]People are upset because the character is a black woman. It even says in the article. Could it be people here? Unlikely.[/QUOTE] "Upset", you keep using that word. Most people in the thread [u]disagree[/u] with the idea of completely tossing away a character, and injecting one, just for sheer and blatant pandering purposes. And specially, without even a symbolic "passing of the torch" between the "old" character and the "new" one. People are displeased with the pandering, which is why it's inconsequential if "Iron Man" is replaced, out of the sudden, for a 20+ year old Pakistani Brit trans person. The content of the character is not what we're questioning, it's the clear and undeniable pandering. In this case, "Iron Man" happens to be a black woman -- quite stereotypical looking one, at that. No one is "upset" (your words, not mine) at the new character because she's a) a woman and b) she's black, people are "upset" because it's just sheer pandering on Marvel's part, and most people, as shown in this thread, are frankly tired at this trend. Simple as that. Displeased != upset. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Janus Vesta;50661682]You know what the worst part is? They do this shit every fucking time too. It's always the same people who come in on their high horses and act like people who are upset are racist, or sexist, or insecure. All while they couldn't give half a shit about comics unless it's pandering to them. They pat themselves on the back for being progressive and accepting these 'new' heroes and they never bother to read the absolute garbage that these changes result in.[/QUOTE] You can say that again -- I've been called a "fascist shill" on another thread. It's quite annoying to have an exchange of opinions on FP without people calling you a racist bastard, apparently.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50662059]"Upset", you keep using that word. Most people in the thread [u]disagree[/u] with the idea of completely tossing away a character, and injecting one, just for sheer and blatant pandering purposes. And specially, without even a symbolic "passing of the torch" between the "old" character and the "new" one. People are displeased with the pandering, which is why it's inconsequential if "Iron Man" is replaced, out of the sudden, for a 20+ year old Pakistani Brit trans person. The content of the character is not what we're questioning, it's the clear and undeniable pandering. In this case, "Iron Man" happens to be a black woman -- quite stereotypical looking one, at that. No one is "upset" (your words, not mine) at the new character because she's a) a woman and b) she's black, people are "upset" because it's just sheer pandering on Marvel's part, and most people, as shown in this thread, are frankly tired at this trend. Simple as that. Displeased != upset. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] You can say that again -- I've been called a "fascist shill" on another thread. It's quite annoying to have an exchange of opinions on FP without people calling you a racist bastard, apparently.[/QUOTE] Also tired of being labelled a racist for disliking these terrible attempts at pandering. No one would DARE make a white Power Man replace Luke Cage.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50661992]yeah, and where are those people now nowhere, because it came out and it was decently well written and they stopped caring. you know what series people still hate? the poorly written ones. I wonder why that is. like I mean sure there are always going to be a group of people complaining about blackies and whities and brownies and whatever because that's just the fucking human race, but you have to kind of filter that sort of thing to a degree[/QUOTE] Really you hit the nail on the head. Apparently this writer is trash, but we'll have to wait and see how this happens. If it ends up being as shit as people claim it will be, then Marvel will have to rethink their equality game. [QUOTE=Zyler;50661986][b]It was not a yes or no question.[/b] Please response to the question. Are the people who disagree with you in this thread either: A) Disingenuous in their arguments because they are insecure/closested bigots/racist/whatever. I.E. they don't believe what they're saying with regards disliking someone because they don't like the writer. OR B)They have genuine reasons for believing what they do. I.E. they genuinely dislike this writer and the stuff they write because it is badly written.[/QUOTE] Going off their points, B? Whats the point of question? I never said Aaron was a biggot/racist or even implied such a thing. [QUOTE=AaronM202;50662001]Dont tell me. Show me.[/QUOTE] [quote]In February 2014, they introduced a new Ms. Marvel: Kamala Khan, a 16-year-old Muslim girl struggling to fit in who uses her shape-shifting powers to protect her hometown of Jersey City, N.J. Some fans blasted the new story line–a few even accused Amanat and Wilson of somehow promoting jihad–but the book quickly earned a spot on the New York Times list of best-selling paperback graphic books.[/quote] [url]http://time.com/4014894/marvel-female-superheroes-thor-ms-marvel/[/url]

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662077] [url]http://time.com/4014894/marvel-female-superheroes-thor-ms-marvel/[/url][/QUOTE] Oh. So a one off thing. No forum posts. Nothing from /co/ Not even some racist thread from /pol/? Just an isolated incident? This is people "flipping their fucking shit". THIS is the best you have?

[QUOTE=Zyler;50662008][B]No.[/B] [B]Noone in this thread is upset simply because the character is black[/B] [B]I stated this in my previous post, you have either ignored it or misinterpreted it.[/B] [B]Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/B] [B]Your entire argument is based on things people have not said[/B] [B]Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/B] Do you understand what I'm saying? [/quote] It really isn't but keep pushing that narrative. Take the time to read my posts. [quote]Are the people in this thread upset because the character is black? [B]No they are not. This is a misinterpretation of people's posts. Your argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/quote] Whats the point of this snippet? You're saying exactly what I'm saying. [quote]Maybe instead of 'dancing around' the issue. You make your actual argument clear instead of misinterpreting people's posts and sniping at people.[/B][/QUOTE] I'll do that in the future to avoid a multi-page argument, if you really want me to.

Am I the only one that thinks this thread should probably be closed

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662077]Really you hit the nail on the head. Apparently this writer is trash, but we'll have to wait and see how this happens. If it ends up being as shit as people claim it will be, then Marvel will have to rethink their equality game. Going off their points, B? Whats the point of question? I never said Aaron was a biggot/racist or even implied such a thing. [URL]http://time.com/4014894/marvel-female-superheroes-thor-ms-marvel/[/URL][/QUOTE] So noone in this thread actually dislikes the comic because the character is black, they dislike it because they dislike the writer. correct? [b]Then there's no argument here, you are in agreement with everybody else in this thread. We're done. That's it.[/b]

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50662091]Oh. So a one off thing. No forum posts. Nothing from /co/ Not even some racist thread from /pol/? Just an isolated incident? This is people "flipping their fucking shit". THIS is the best you have?[/QUOTE] Do you want me to post blogs? The only people who are reporting on this issue area left wing blogposts from news website and right-wing extremist sites. Non-Bias news outlets don't care about shit like that, and if they do (The Times cares because it's new york) then they usually briefly touch on it. [url]https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/02/marvel-comics-muslima-superhero-on-a-jihad-against-free-speech[/url] [url]https://theburningbloggerofbedlam.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/the-new-muslim-ms-marvel-and-the-cultural-controversies-in-comics/[/url] [QUOTE=Pretiacruento;50662059]You can say that again -- I've been called a "fascist shill" on another thread. It's quite annoying to have an exchange of opinions on FP without people calling you a racist bastard, apparently.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't call you a fascist shill, but you were commending a fascist government to kill people without a fair trial.

Here's a question Does the concept of a 15 year old super genius stereotypically 1970's black styled kid Iron Man really interest anyone here in anyway? Does anyone who does not read comics feel attracted to this concept enough to pick up a comic book?

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662104]It really isn't but keep pushing that narrative. Take the time to read my posts. Whats the point of this snippet? You're saying exactly what I'm saying. I'll do that in the future to avoid a multi-page argument, if you really want me to.[/QUOTE] Noone in this thread has said anything you disagree with. You misinterpreted one guy's post and saw it as racist, then realized your mistake. You then misinterpreted a bunch of other people's posts and have yet to realize that. The last 4 or so pages have been people telling you that you misread their posts and you complaining that people haven't been reading your posts. [B]But noone has actually said anything you disagreed with, the only posts you disagreed with were ones that you misinterpreted to mean something that they didn't[/B]. [b]The last 4 or so pages have just a bunch of people going back and forth not understanding each other.[/b] Understand? [B]Everyone in this thread agrees that they dislike the comic book because of the writer who writes badly, no one has a black with the character themself purely on the face of it or their fictional characteristics. Agree? Yes? Then there's no argument here. We all agree.[/B]

here's how I view diversity diversity of thought, perspective, and experience is what's important. The same 5 people writing different colored characters doesn't make comics more diverse. More writers writing new and different kinds of stories makes comics more diverse. Just reskinning tony stark or thor or whoever to be black or female or trans or gay or whatever doesn't bring anything new to comics. It just makes a bunch of nerds feel progressive. The real thing comics need to do is find a foothold in new markets. Just look at manga. Fucking everyone buys manga in japan. Young, old, male, female, everyone. And that's what allows them to publish all sorts of different stuff. What we should want is an expanded and more diverse market for comics, along with new artists to cater to that market. That's the kind of diversity that makes the world a better place.

[QUOTE=Zyler;50662135]Noone in this thread has said anything you disagree with. You misinterpreted one guy's post and saw it as racist, then realized you're mistake. You then misinterpreted a bunch of other people's posts and have yet to realize that. The last 4 or so pages have been people telling you that you misread their posts and you complaining that people haven't been reading your posts. [b]But noone has actually said anything you disagreed with, the only posts you disagreed with were ones that you misinterpreted to mean something that they didn't[/b]. Understand?[/QUOTE] What posts am I misinterpreting? The ones that joke about transgenderism? Also I think that's the entire point here, I don't disagree with anyone. Really my entire purpose here was to explain what humor is, and how those posts came off as questionable when it came to motive. I'm not really complaining about people who don't read my posts. I don't care if people don't read my posts, I was simply complaining to point out that you, or someone else, was complaining that I didn't read someone else's posts.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662152]What posts am I misinterpreting? The ones that joke about transgenderism? Also I think that's the entire point here, I don't disagree with anyone. Really my entire purpose here was to explain what humor is, and how those posts came off as questionable when it came to motive. I'm not really complaining about people who don't read my posts. I don't care if people don't read my posts, I was simply complaining to point out that you, or someone else, was complaining that I didn't read someone else's posts.[/QUOTE] You were complaining that people don't understand your posts, but you're weren't really complaining that people don't understand your posts? You misinterpreted several of my posts where I asked you a question and it took almost 2 pages to get an answer from you. You also misinterpreted the two points I was making, which I explain here: [QUOTE=Zyler;50661801]Can you answer the question I asked instead of avoiding it please. I'm not persecuting you for a mistake you corrected. I was making two points. First of all, you stated that you didn't bring up race in the thread, but you did, and you were being disengenious. Second of all, [B]I very specifically stated that you're continuing the make the same mistakes over and over again with regards to misinterpreting people's posts and citing that as an example.[/B] [B]You even did it once again by ignoring the question I very specifically asked you to answer and misinterpreting the contention of my post.[/B] [B]Your only argument is that people are saying bad things, but your claim that people are saying bad things is based solely on the fact that you're misinterpreting people. And you continue to misinterpret people when they state that you're misinterpreting them.[/B] So are people actually racist/bigotted/insecure or disengenious or do you actually have a problem with the storytelling conventions they are bringing up (which is the actual argument they are making in the first place)? [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [B]What makes you think people are bitching about the character being a black woman? People are not upset because the character is a black woman, period. People have stated multiple times that they support black super heroes but they dislike the work of this specific writer because of the bad writing they produce. You are misinterpreting people's posts. Your entire argument is based on misinterpreting people's posts.[/B][/QUOTE] You have also misinterpreted posts by several other posters, so much so that it would take me forever to go through it.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50662141]here's how I view diversity diversity of thought, perspective, and experience is what's important. The same 5 people writing different colored characters doesn't make comics more diverse. More writers writing new and different kinds of stories makes comics more diverse. Just reskinning tony stark or thor or whoever to be black or female or trans or gay or whatever doesn't bring anything new to comics. It just makes a bunch of nerds feel progressive. The real thing comics need to do is find a foothold in new markets. Just look at manga. Fucking everyone buys manga in japan. Young, old, male, female, everyone. And that's what allows them to publish all sorts of different stuff. What we should want is an expanded and more diverse market for comics, along with new artists to cater to that market. That's the kind of diversity that makes the world a better place.[/QUOTE] That's pretty much exactly how I think about it. I really don't care for whatever Bendis thinks _____ from _____ place is like primarily because he has no business writing something he doesn't know in such an insensitive way. What I would care about is someone from that background or something similar writing it because they could bring some authenticity to it. You can write sci fi of any sort as anyone, but if you're going to talk about the here and now in the real world as best you can, there's somethings that probably won't come across right if you don't have any experience there.

[QUOTE=Zyler;50662159]You were complaining that people don't understand your posts, but you're weren't really complaining that people don't understand your posts?[/QUOTE] To be absolutely correct, I was complaining that people weren't reading my posts to point out that everyone makes mistakes.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662128]Do you want me to post blogs? The only people who are reporting on this issue area left wing blogposts from news website and right-wing extremist sites. Non-Bias news outlets don't care about shit like that, and if they do (The Times cares because it's new york) then they usually briefly touch on it. [url]https://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/02/marvel-comics-muslima-superhero-on-a-jihad-against-free-speech[/url] [url]https://theburningbloggerofbedlam.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/the-new-muslim-ms-marvel-and-the-cultural-controversies-in-comics/[/url] .[/QUOTE] So you've got next to nothing besides regular internet activity, got it. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50662141]here's how I view diversity diversity of thought, perspective, and experience is what's important. The same 5 people writing different colored characters doesn't make comics more diverse. More writers writing new and different kinds of stories makes comics more diverse. Just reskinning tony stark or thor or whoever to be black or female or trans or gay or whatever doesn't bring anything new to comics. It just makes a bunch of nerds feel progressive. The real thing comics need to do is find a foothold in new markets. Just look at manga. Fucking everyone buys manga in japan. Young, old, male, female, everyone. And that's what allows them to publish all sorts of different stuff. What we should want is an expanded and more diverse market for comics, along with new artists to cater to that market. That's the kind of diversity that makes the world a better place.[/QUOTE] Not to sound like a weab, but im planning on getting into Comics as an Illustrator and writer, and im considering if it'd ever be possible to promote stuff in any meaningful capacity in Japan just because their comic industry is in so much better shape.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50662141]The real thing comics need to do is find a foothold in new markets. Just look at manga. Fucking everyone buys manga in japan. Young, old, male, female, everyone. And that's what allows them to publish all sorts of different stuff. What we should want is an expanded and more diverse market for comics, along with new artists to cater to that market. That's the kind of diversity that makes the world a better place.[/QUOTE] 100% agreed. But the problem with this, is... that it'd require Marvel and DC to actually get creative and do some fucking work, instead of being lazy and re-skinning characters, for affirmative action's sake. It speaks volumes about both companies, how they barely can't compete with the Japanese Anime and Manga industry, to the point that they just cut corners instead of churning out good, worthwhile material *oriented at* various demographics.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662169]To be absolutely correct, I was complaining that people weren't reading my posts to point out that everyone makes mistakes.[/QUOTE] But [B]you were[/B] complaining about people not reading your posts. You can't be not doing something by doing something. "I was mowing your lawn yesterday, but I wasn't actually mowing your lawn because I didn't do it because I liked you." "I punched you in the face just now, but I didn't actually punch you in the face just now because I didn't mean it." Either you do the thing or you don't do the thing. What you're talking about is like a superposition of quantum mechanics, like the Schrodinger's Cat of complaining about people not reading posts. It's both true and not true at the same time. If this is how you "dance around" things, [b]then please don't ever "dance around" things ever again.[/b]

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50662176]So you've got next to nothing besides regular internet activity, got it.[/QUOTE] "Racism/Extremism is normal, so this means nothing." Say this instead of wasting my time looking for shit. You would've said the same thing if I looked for a /pol/ article.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662208]"Racism/Extremism is normal, so this means nothing." Say this instead of wasting my time looking for shit. You would've said the same thing if I looked for a /pol/ article.[/QUOTE] That's not what Aaron was saying, [B]you are misinterpreting people's posts.[/B] One or two people being idiots and getting upset on twitter is not a significant backlash. It's like how one or two people on twitter call for white people to be killed and it's "POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD" (that was sarcasm, btw). I'm gonna keep saying this until you get it or the thread gets closed. The only way you are able to disagree with Aaron's post is if you misinterpret what he is saying.

[QUOTE=Sift;50662108]Am I the only one that thinks this thread should probably be closed[/QUOTE] yep thats why i stopped posting [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] fuck

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662208]"Racism/Extremism is normal, so this means nothing." Say this instead of wasting my time looking for shit. You would've said the same thing if I looked for a /pol/ article.[/QUOTE] Here we go again. No, my point was, theres always fringe individuals with loud voices. Always will be. Always has. They complain about everything and anything, always have, always will, always do. You pointed out an example of that, its nothing special. People LIKE Kamala Khan. You're wrong. Admit it.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50662208]"Racism/Extremism is normal, so this means nothing." Say this instead of wasting my time looking for shit. You would've said the same thing if I looked for a /pol/ article.[/QUOTE] Racism, /pol/... why do you keep labeling people who share a different opinion than yours as an average /pol/ acolyte? This is what I mean, right here. "Everyone who doesn't think like me must be a /pol/ shitposter". Your mental gymnastics are on point.

[QUOTE=Zyler;50662159]You were complaining that people don't understand your posts, but you're weren't really complaining that people don't understand your posts? You misinterpreted several of my posts where I asked you a question and it took almost 2 pages to get an answer from you. You also misinterpreted the two points I was making, which I explain here: You have also misinterpreted posts by several other posters, so much so that it would take me forever to go through it.[/QUOTE] I'll be real here and say that I don't read your statements. If I see another stupid accusation from you, I ignore it. Sometimes a question is between those stupid accusations, so that's my fault. [quote]What makes you think people are bitching about the character being a black woman?[/quote] Do you mean the people here, or the people on the internet? I already addressed the people here. [QUOTE=Zyler;50662198]But [B]you were[/B] complaining about people not reading your posts. You can't be not doing something by doing something. "I was mowing your lawn yesterday, but I wasn't actually mowing your lawn because I didn't do it because I liked you." "I punched you in the face just now, but I didn't actually punch you in the face just now because I didn't mean it." Either you do the thing or you don't do the thing. What you're talking about is like a superposition of quantum mechanics, like the Schrodinger's Cat of complaining about people not reading posts. It's both true and not true at the same time. If this is how you "dance around" things, [b]then please don't ever "dance around" things ever again.[/b][/QUOTE] I was but the main meaning behind those complains was to point out the hypocrisy, which I explained before.