TIME- "Exclusive: Marvel’s New Iron Man Is a Black Woman" - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50665237] do you even read comics or anything?[/QUOTE] Here's the response to that post above asking me to show generalization. When I skimmed some of the earlier pages, I saw this being repeated up and down the thread, accusing people of not reading comics as some sort of epic zinger just in case they ran out of ways of defensing their argument. So, wow! you sure showed me! Obviously because I don't read the latest comics or whatever, I am not part of the cool secret club and I can't have an opinion on diversity or racism.

Bendis is literally writing characters with non white(Because calling them coloured makes me a racist, but you calling me white is just a descriptor, so I guess I have to list EVERY ethnicity there is in order to say what I mean which is simply people of a different race than myself) backgrounds and using those as tokens and this whole thread has people defending that as good writing. He uses the racial elements of characters to push them further without fully understanding those subcultures. And pointing that out makes me a racist. That's a joke.

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665611]Here's the response to that post above asking me to show generalization. When I skimmed some of the earlier pages, I saw this being repeated up and down the thread, accusing people of not reading comics as some sort of epic zinger just in case they ran out of ways of defensing their argument. So, wow! you sure showed me! Obviously because I don't read the latest comics or whatever, I am not part of the cool secret club and I can't have an opinion on diversity or racism.[/QUOTE] no it was honestly a question to see if you give 2 shits about the character or just the fact she is black but okay you're very obviously a racist yourself, obviously

And once again everyone who is defending this bullshit comes in acting holier than thou, dodging questions, and accusing others of being bigoted. It's like fucking clockwork. Is it not tiring to be so condescending and dismissive all the time?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50665587]How should I refer to other people then when race is specifically the issue we're talking about here? Yes I am listening to myself, and I am thoroughly convinced you aren't listening to me and are intentionally painting me with a brush that doesn't fit me. In an industry where they ARE ACTUALLY A MINORITY, I guess it must be wrong, and racist of me to point that out? It's RACIST for me to point out that an industry largely populated by white people, is disingenuous with some of it's attempts to create diversity through these characters.[/QUOTE] How are you going to attract minorities to the comics industry and have them create more minority characters if they don't see any minorities in comics to begin with. If the writers were actually writing about what they represented, we'd just have a bunch of straight white guys. That wouldn't indicate to a minority that there's any room for more diverse characters at all. Writing at its core is a creative exercise. These writers certainly don't have any real life experience with being ironman, but they write about him every day. Thus, they should be able to write compelling minority characters. If they can't, then they're bad writers. If Bendis can't write a good minority character, then it reflects poorly on his writing ability, but it shouldn't reflect poorly on minority characters in general.

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665694] If Bendis can't write a good minority character, then it reflects poorly on his writing ability, but it shouldn't reflect poorly on minority characters in general.[/QUOTE] Wow it's like everyone has been saying this the whole thread woah

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665694]How are you going to attract minorities to the comics industry and have them create more minority characters if they don't see any minorities in comics to begin with. If the writers were actually writing about what they represented, we'd just have a bunch of straight white guys. That wouldn't indicate to a minority that there's any room for more diverse characters at all. Writing at its core is a creative exercise. These writers certainly don't have any real life experience with being ironman, but they write about him every day. Thus, they should be able to write compelling minority characters. If they can't, then they're bad writers. If Bendis can't write a good minority character, then it reflects poorly on his writing ability, but it shouldn't reflect poorly on minority characters in general.[/QUOTE] Look, I covered this in the thread. Which is why you should just have fucking read it before coming in here acting like you know why we all feel what we feel. ANYONE can write sci fi. When you start writing about specific subcultures in the real world, you should have SOME experience with them or comes across as disigenious. And I [B]never[/B] even remotely said it reflects badly on that race, that's YOUR assumption. That's YOUR racism, not mine. I am talking purely about how this is bad for the comics and the readers because bad comics do not lure people in. Honestly, if you'd READ the thread, then ALL the stuff we're covering now that you supposedly don't have fucking time to argue(Your words) wouldn't be getting retread for the 10th time.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;50665631]And once again everyone who is defending this bullshit comes in acting holier than thou, dodging questions, and accusing others of being bigoted. It's like fucking clockwork. Is it not tiring to be so condescending and dismissive all the time?[/QUOTE] This post is the epitome of condescending and dismissive

[QUOTE=Duck M.;50665751]This post is the epitome of condescending and dismissive[/QUOTE] Not really in the context of the thread where almost every new poster to the thread comes in, ignores everything said already, supposes the only reason the people complaining about this could possibly be complaining about it are "Insecurity" "racism"

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665694]How are you going to attract minorities to the comics industry and have them create more minority characters if they don't see any minorities in comics to begin with. If the writers were actually writing about what they represented, we'd just have a bunch of straight white guys. That wouldn't indicate to a minority that there's any room for more diverse characters at all. Writing at its core is a creative exercise. These writers certainly don't have any real life experience with being ironman, but they write about him every day. Thus, they should be able to write compelling minority characters. If they can't, then they're bad writers. If Bendis can't write a good minority character, then it reflects poorly on his writing ability, but it shouldn't reflect poorly on minority characters in general.[/QUOTE] I can't fucking believe people like you exist. Are you so fucking ignorant of comics that you think charaters like [i]this[/i] are good representations of minorities? That tokenism is the way to promote diversity? Are you so ignorant of comics that you don't know about the existing minority characters which comic fans actually like? Ever hear of Black Panther? Static Shock? War Machine? Cyborg? Characters who exist as their own entities who people actually like. In your own words "Writing at its core is a creative exercise", so why the [b]fuck[/b] are you people so adamant on defending the most uncreative shit in comics today?

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665070]I went back and read through the arguments and it only devolved into random strawmen and open insults on both sides, so no, the argument is not resolved, so get off your high horse. Even now you're just throwing insults at me. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] I'm not generalizing anyone's view. I'm giving my own opinion, which is that racism and prejudice and whatnot will never be resolved until we stop looking at minority characters as "pandering" or diversity inclusions.[/QUOTE] You havent read a damn thing, you're using excuses to back out of actually arguing your dumb point.

[QUOTE=Arc Nova;50665620]no it was honestly a question to see if you give 2 shits about the character or just the fact she is black but okay you're very obviously a racist yourself, obviously[/QUOTE] No yeah, [I]obviously[/I]. [I]Obviously[/I], I'm the Grand Dragon Wizard Poobah of the KKK, just because I think having minorities in comics should already be accepted. [I]Obviously[/I], I live in rural Alabama and am typing this right now with a 36 inch confederate flag on my wall behind me, because I disagree with you.

Why isnt this bannable. This is ridiculous shitposting. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=_Pai;50665823]No yeah, [I]obviously[/I]. [I]Obviously[/I], I'm the Grand Dragon Wizard Poobah of the KKK, just because I think having minorities in comics should already be accepted. [I]Obviously[/I], I live in rural Alabama and am typing this right now with a 36 inch confederate flag on my wall behind me, because I disagree with you.[/QUOTE] Okay listen here Bobby-Jo. Nobody was against this change because she was black, or a woman. Maybe if you bothered to skim through the thread you'd notice how many arguments were made explaining why people were mad and [b]WHY IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT RACE SHE IS.[/b]

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665694]How are you going to attract minorities to the comics industry and have them create more minority characters if they don't see any minorities in comics to begin with. If the writers were actually writing about what they represented, we'd just have a bunch of straight white guys. That wouldn't indicate to a minority that there's any room for more diverse characters at all. Writing at its core is a creative exercise. These writers certainly don't have any real life experience with being ironman, but they write about him every day. Thus, they should be able to write compelling minority characters. If they can't, then they're bad writers. [b] If Bendis can't write a good minority character, then it reflects poorly on his writing ability, but it shouldn't reflect poorly on minority characters in general.[/b][/QUOTE] Holy fu. If you read the thread you would notice that's what 99% of the people here defend. We want good written characters, but for most comic readers it has been shown that these new characters only serve to pander to specific audiences and are written as a walking cliche-tropes-talking-box. There's plenty examples of good characters from all races, genders, political ideologies, sexuality and so on - but this is not it.

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665823]No yeah, [I]obviously[/I]. [I]Obviously[/I], I'm the Grand Dragon Wizard Poobah of the KKK, just because I think having minorities in comics should already be accepted. [I]Obviously[/I], I live in rural Alabama and am typing this right now with a 36 inch confederate flag on my wall behind me, because I disagree with you.[/QUOTE] Dude honestly the more you post the more it shows you've read nothing here and if you think I hate the decision Bendis made because I hate blacks you're a fool [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] Can you seriously find one post in this thread that seriously says "I hate the new Iron Man because she is black" or anything remotely like that, at all?

[QUOTE=AaronM202;50665827]Why isnt this bannable. This is ridiculous shitposting. [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] Okay listen here Bobby-Jo. Nobody was against this change because she was black, or a woman. Maybe if you bothered to skim through the thread you'd notice how many arguments were made explaining why people were mad and [b]WHY IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT RACE SHE IS.[/b][/QUOTE] I think it was very clear in the first couple pages that people were mad because of perceived pandering and being diverse for the sake of. None of that would be said if the character was a white male.

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665868]I think it was very clear in the first couple pages that people were mad because of perceived pandering and being diverse for the sake of. None of that would be said if the character was a white male.[/QUOTE] Because the same writer famous for writing token minorities poorly is handling this one.

_Pai .Isak. Gonna give you. One. [b]ONE.[/b] Simple task. [b]One. Simple. Task.[/b] Read these posts before you continue posting. For the love of god. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1525790&p=50659801&viewfull=1#post50659801[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1525790&p=50659740&viewfull=1#post50659740[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1525790&p=50660331&viewfull=1#post50660331[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1525790&p=50660411&viewfull=1#post50660411[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1525790&p=50661133&viewfull=1#post50661133[/url] [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1525790&p=50661208&viewfull=1#post50661208[/url] Maybe i missed a few good ones, but heres some posts that can help sum up what you've blatantly ignored. [b]Its not about her fucking race. If she was white, asian, hispanic, the reaction would be the same.[/b]

Jesus Christ people this thread [I]sucks.[/I] Its simple: We all want well written characters, and if they're minorities too then awesome thats even better. Poorly written minority characters introduced simply for the single fact that "hey look they're [minority]" are even worse than just poorly written characters. Its insulting and it shows that the authors have: no clue what they're writing don't care what they're writing more interest in money than good writing or any combo of the above 3. Not [I]a single person here[/I] is saying "fuck this [I]because[/I] she's black" Read the damn thread or just fucking stop talking.

[QUOTE=Magikoopa24;50656354]Makes more sense than "cancer patient given the abilities of Thor because fuck it I dunno", at least. Time will tell if the writing is good as well.[/QUOTE] Cancer patient who has cancer because of the hammer and hates asgard becomes Thor because clickbait progressive marketing. [IMG]http://www.therainbowhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/hammer-time.jpg[/IMG] My question what this character bring to the table that Tony doesn't, cause right now I don't see anything coming out of this that's unique, nothing that this character can understand or learn that Stark is somehow incapable of experiencing. How quickly people forget that Tony was literally a homeless fuckface drug addict that was generally despised and shunned by everyone around him except for Rhodes and his then girlfriend, and he's also went directly against the government twice for stealing his tech. [quote] black iron man [/quote] Rhodes was Iron Man, not War Machine, but [B]Iron Man for 9 years[/B]. You really suck at this. You should probably do some research.

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665868]I think it was very clear in the first couple pages that people were mad because of perceived pandering and being diverse for the sake of. None of that would be said if the character was a white male.[/QUOTE] Because it is. Because the writer hast a history of it. And if it was some random bob? I'd still be fucking confused and annoyed, like i am now. Stop excusing shit writing.

[QUOTE=_Pai;50665868]I think it was very clear in the first couple pages that people were mad because of perceived pandering and being diverse for the sake of. None of that would be said if the character was a white male.[/QUOTE] Do you just ignore every post that has clear and concise points or are you just an elaborate troll??

If it's an issue of pandering from an author stereotyping other races, like it seems to be, sure, I get that. The guy who replaced the original Spider-Man seemed to be well-liked despite being a different race - and if it's an issue of bad writing and pandering, I can understand the frustration. But I don't read comics and I don't want to make a judgment on what seems to be a more complicated issue than I thought it would be.

foxy cleopatra haha Character seems cool, although Riri Williams doesn't really roll off the tongue and sounds like a nickname for Robin Williams. People getting mad at the character's physicality are kind of being childish tbh. It's not uncommon for superheros to pass down the torch. Green Lantern? The Flash? Does it always have to be someone of the same race or gender?

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50665942]If it's an issue of pandering from an author stereotyping other races, like it seems to be, sure, I get that. The guy who replaced the original Spider-Man seemed to be well-liked despite being a different race - and if it's an issue of bad writing and pandering, I can understand the frustration.[/QUOTE] Its pandering. Its replacing a character needlessly. It adds nothing to the role. There was no build up. It has no weight. And its being written by a hack. [QUOTE=.Isak.;50665942]But I don't read comics and I don't want to make a judgment on what seems to be a more complicated issue than I thought it would be.[/QUOTE] Then you shouldnt have come in to make that witty little remark then, huh? [editline]7th July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50665972]foxy cleopatra haha Character seems cool, although Riri Williams doesn't really roll off the tongue and sounds like a nickname for Robin Williams. People getting mad at the character's physicality are kind of being childish tbh. It's not uncommon for superheros to pass down the torch. Green Lantern? The Flash? Does it always have to be someone of the same race or gender?[/QUOTE] STOP. STOP. [b]STOP. STOP. [i]STOP. STOP. [u]STOP. STOP. [highlight]STOP.[/highlight][/u][/i][/b] Read the THREAD. Just. Read the thread. Is that so hard? Is that so much to ask?

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50665972]foxy cleopatra haha Character seems cool, although Riri Williams doesn't really roll off the tongue and sounds like a nickname for Robin Williams. People getting mad at the character's physicality are kind of being childish tbh. It's not uncommon for superheros to pass down the torch. Green Lantern? The Flash? Does it always have to be someone of the same race or gender?[/QUOTE] nobody is mad at her for being a black woman

[QUOTE=willingwelliv;50664972]Can't we just have hero titles be passed from person to person? Retirement, disability, death, missing, etc leading to somebody else taking up the mantle. And if somebody dies, then make it damn near impossible to bring em back. Years later we can be reminiscent of "that one guy" that was an awesome smartmouth Wolverine, or "that one girl' who was a really dark creepy Hulk. Seems better than just shoehorning these characters in for the smallest of reasons. Make it compelling[/QUOTE] Marvel and DC tried this in the late 80s and early 90s and it didn't work.

[QUOTE=27X;50666025]Marvel and DC tried this in the late 80s and early 90s and it didn't work.[/QUOTE] Yeah but most of them sucked because it was the 90s.

[QUOTE=HybridTheroy;50665972]foxy cleopatra haha Character seems cool, although Riri Williams doesn't really roll off the tongue and sounds like a nickname for Robin Williams. People getting mad at the character's physicality are kind of being childish tbh. It's not uncommon for superheros to pass down the torch. Green Lantern? The Flash? Does it always have to be someone of the same race or gender?[/QUOTE] Ohhh buddy I'm gonna save you the heap of shit about to descend upon you. Nobody is saying its cause she's black or she's [I]she.[/I] They're saying it because the writer sucks ass and we know he's gonna fuck this up too because all he's doing is writing shit character replacements for current characters and screaming "SEE GUYS LOOK IRON MAN IS A BLACK CHICK NOW BUY MY COMIC" "SEE GUYS THOR'S A WOMAN BUY AWAY" Also Green Lantern has changed race several times, not to mention there is canon reason to have more than one lantern [I]and[/I] more than one flash. DC tends to do it right, Marvel is currently shitting up the spectrum with shittily made characters who's only merit is that they're [I]not[/I] white males anymore. Also bonus points new Flash is hispanic.

For anyone saying it's a "Passing the Torch" thing, here's some context. Spoilered in case you'd ever give two shits about Civil War II [sp] Tony is in hiding, so Riri decides to take up the mantle of Ironman[/sp] Tony, as far as we know, doesn't even know Riri exists.