Projection, much?: Tropes Vs MEN creators abscond with cash.
392 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39851296]
For actual content, interviews with relevant people might not only cost pretty penny but be very valuable to the video itself.[/QUOTE]
This is something that I would have liked to see. If she could pull it off, showing how a lot of people in the industry actually feel about the issues she's presenting on would be nice. Interviews aren't difficult to do at all, especially on her budget.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39851540]
And you misunderstanding me is not the same as backpedaling. I may have been unclear about some things and I apologize, but I have yet to backpedal on anything I've said except for "took the money and ran" was simply a bad choice of wording.
[/QUOTE]
I'd just ignore that. He usually just accuses everyone he disagrees with of backpedaling, then tells them to buy an electric car for some reason. I'm not sure if he knows backpedalling is a bike analogy, not driving a car in reverse.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39851540]I'm implying the difference between legally ethical and morally ethical. Maybe that isn't clear enough.
I'm saying what she did is "by the books" correct and can't be held accountable for legally like with a typical "scam", but that I PERSONALLY don't agree with it and think it is morally wrong.
And you misunderstanding me is not the same as backpedaling. I may have been unclear about some things and I apologize, but I have yet to backpedal on anything I've said except for "took the money and ran" was simply a bad choice of wording.
And I already knew about her stack of video games. Everything I have said thus far I have had that in mind.[/QUOTE]
how is it unethical? this woman did not just pop out of the woodwork. she had a video series beforehand. people knew what they were donating for. she told them what to expect.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39851540]I'm implying the difference between legally ethical and morally ethical. Maybe that isn't clear enough.
I'm saying what she did is "by the books" correct and can't be held accountable for legally like with a typical "scam", but that I PERSONALLY don't agree with it and think it is morally wrong.
And you misunderstanding me is not the same as backpedaling. I may have been unclear about some things and I apologize, but I have yet to backpedal on anything I've said except for "took the money and ran" was simply a bad choice of wording.
And I already knew about her stack of video games. Everything I have said thus far I have had that in mind.[/QUOTE]
so more or less: let's get this established
a) she has not used her money for anything other than buying games like she said she would and using it produce her videos
b) she has not taken the money and ran away like you said she did
c) your entire argument is that your personal moral doesn't agree with her action of her taking money from a kickstarter and you made a dumb assumption shes using it for anything else as if she was a nefarious schemer without any proof whatsoever
d) [URL="https://www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic/"]you think 158,922 is quarter of a million [/URL]
im done here
[IMG]http://meta.filesmelt.com/downloader.php?file=fpbird.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39851557]how is it unethical? this woman did not just pop out of the woodwork. she had a video series beforehand. people knew what they were donating for. she told them what to expect.[/QUOTE]
Be that as it may, I just don't think it was the right decision to accept that much money in pure profit when it goes against the entire purpose of the site in the first place.
Honestly it seems like Kickstarter broke their own rules by allowing it to escalate that far.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;39851594]Be that as it may, I just don't think it was the right decision to accept that much money in pure profit when it goes against the entire purpose of the site in the first place.
Honestly it seems like Kickstarter broke their own rules by allowing it to escalate that far.[/QUOTE]
As far as I know, Kickstarter lets funding run as high as people are willing to pay, even if there's nothing resembling a stretch goal. They wouldn't care, since they get a cut.
Ah I see I did get the Kickstarter end-total wrong. I apologize, that is definitely my mistake and a pretty big one admittedly.
I still think that's too much pure profit to rake in from a project funding site, but I shouldn't be arguing when I'm using incorrect figures like that.
[editline]9th March 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;39851604]As far as I know, Kickstarter lets funding run as high as people are willing to pay, even if there's nothing resembling a stretch goal. They wouldn't care, since they get a cut.[/QUOTE]
But I actually considered using their site once for a game I was working on, and it does says on the submission page that the money is meant for the project. Even if they do nothing to enforce it.
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;39850906][URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/19vd7q/its_out_damsel_in_distress_part_1_tropes_vs_women/[/URL]
this is like the funniest thing ever and yet not a single word about retracting their statement calling anita a fraudster, im still looking for shadeaz or thisispain in those comments[/QUOTE]
im not an MRA 4 real im gonna cry if u keep sayin that :(
[editline]8th March 2013[/editline]
im down with the BRD too u kno
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;39850906][URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/19vd7q/its_out_damsel_in_distress_part_1_tropes_vs_women/[/URL]
this is like the funniest thing ever and yet not a single word about retracting their statement calling anita a fraudster, im still looking for shadeaz or thisispain in those comments[/QUOTE]
There are few things I geuninly get angry about over the internet... MRAs are on them.
This is just awful.
im genuinely angry that lolwutdude just called me an mra
you wanna throw down dude?
[QUOTE=Winters;39851672]There are few things I geuninly get angry about over the internet... MRAs are on them.
This is just awful.[/QUOTE]
I feel like these "MRAs" are only coming up because of what a hot issue misogyny is right now. It just seems like stupid attention seeking to me.
The only area where an "MRA" might have a point is in some divorce settlement-related issues. Certainly not pop-culture of all things.
Just gonna leave that vague since I don't want to start another argument :v:
[QUOTE=lolwutdude;39850906][URL]http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/19vd7q/its_out_damsel_in_distress_part_1_tropes_vs_women/[/URL]
this is like the funniest thing ever and yet not a single word about retracting their statement calling anita a fraudster, im still looking for shadeaz or thisispain in those comments[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/29ktohs.png[/IMG]
holy shit these guys are hilarious lmao
Did she donate any money to a charity? At least these guys had the right idea with that. Would have definitely redeemed the whole campaign (Except for the part where we won't learn anything new and it's just a masturbatory project)
I wanted to look into this more, and I found this from their Steam group:
[QUOTE]Due to the campaign recently brought to attention by a gaming journalism website, we might as well answer in a public fashion, for both visitors and members alike, certain questions that most have thought at some point or another.
1) So was this a fraud?
Nope.
2) No, seriously, did you run off with the money/scam the shit out of the donors/buy a PS3 with the funds?
We have not. We can guarantee you that the money was sent to the charities.
3) You photoshopped the screencaps with the donation receipts!
What would somebody earn doing that? It would be silly to go on such lengths to commit fraud when all the personal information of the individuals in charge of the money is at the disposal of Indiegogo authorities.
4) But the guy said that one of the charities replied that no donation took place! That sounds like fraud to me.
The charities are being contacted and the whole thing is being looked upon right now. This is a very strange (not to mention unfounded) claim, but it's taken really seriously nonetheless. The chances of money of any amount being suddenly unaccounted for, as ridiculously slim as they look, are not to be taken lightly under any circumstance and absolutely nothing is being ruled out at this point.
5) You deleted the Indiegogo page! You're trying to cover your tracks while you run away with the money!
The Indiegogo campaign page's disappearance was not caused by any of us. The page was put "under review" by IGG staff because the "main" campaign owner went AWOL and the remaining two managers were not contacted by Indiegogo. We are cooperating with them as much as we can to get the page back up.
6) He went AWOL? So you did run away with the money!
This person had no contact with the funds whatsoever.
7) Under review? That means Indiegogo thinks it's a scam! Therefore it's a scam!
No, that means Indiegogo is acting according to standard procedure and their terms of use.
8) WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE VIDEOS?
We're working on them, believe it or not! Almost all the original volunteers lost interest after the money was donated and the thing began to go into hiatus afterwards. It's a collective work by anonymous volunteers running on no budget after all. There's no leader nor main organizer (the people who volunteered to manage the indiegogo page and the campaign funds being the only ones showing themselves in public for obvious reasons), and thus proper organization with dedicated volunteers proved to be slightly more difficult than what it was originally thought. So we're now in the process of retaking whatever progress we had and assembling a new group, composed of both old volunteers and new people alike who were left out of the original, and we're ready to at least have a go at it again. Feel free to offer your skills and ideas in the group chat! [/QUOTE]
This was from two days ago, but they might still be making their videos.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39849615]Hitler is basically the most evil person ever and guess what? Always portrayed as a man.[/QUOTE]
Wow I never thought about it like that. You are a wise man Zeke.
As a straight white privileged male, I find this ever so hilarious.
Oh yeah, and remember when Anita's project was never heard from again for like 7 months before releasing her new video ?
Surely this is different.
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;39854181]Oh yeah, and remember when Anita's project was never heard from again for like 7 months before releasing her new video ?
Surely this is different.[/QUOTE]
Is that why I can't find part 2?
It was a rather interesting video, although I think sexism is thrown in too much into something people never even thought about. She has a point, I couldn't agree more, but some of the points she makes are things nobody would think about until someone pointed it out.
[QUOTE=dass;39854253]Is that why I can't find part 2?
It was a rather interesting video, although I think sexism is thrown in too much into something people never even thought about. She has a point, I couldn't agree more, but some of the points she makes are things nobody would think about until someone pointed it out.[/QUOTE]
She only put up part 1 yet.
It only took her like what, 150.000 $ and 6-7 months to do a video that has the exact quality of her other ones ?
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;39854344]She only put up part 1 yet.
It only took her like what, 150.000 $ and 6-7 months to do a video that has the exact quality of her other ones ?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;39849705]Yeah, you see, actually making a video series takes [i]much longer[/i] than scamming a bunch of people out of their money and then disappearing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;39854344]She only put up part 1 yet.
It only took her like what, 150.000 $ and 6-7 months to do a video that has the exact quality of her other ones ?[/QUOTE]
I dunno if it cost $150k and took literally 7 months of hard work to make but the video is actually pretty decent, and this is coming from someone who has questioned her methodology in the past.
I think too many people are hung up with irrelevant details (like the fact that she received far more money than she asked for, likely a reaction to the absolute tidal wave of brutal misogyny thrown her way after news of the Kickstarter broke) and her character ("Investig8ve Journalism" and the countless people who verbatim parrot it) rather than actually deconstructing her arguments or even looking into them. But this is the internet and character assassination is easier than actual research so whatevs.
[QUOTE=Rex McCoolguy;39854344]She only put up part 1 yet.[/QUOTE]
Oh.
I wanted to see the rest.
[QUOTE=Hawke7;39851975]Did she donate any money to a charity? At least these guys had the right idea with that. Would have definitely redeemed the whole campaign (Except for the part where we won't learn anything new and it's just a masturbatory project)[/QUOTE]
why would she donate it to charity? I don't recall that being a part of the kickstarter, idk sounds like you're trying to find something to criticize
I really hate the concept of feminism(and MRA before you whine about that), there's no way to gain gender equality if you only focus on one side.
[QUOTE=Hawke7;39851975]Did she donate any money to a charity? At least these guys had the right idea with that. Would have definitely redeemed the whole campaign (Except for the part where we won't learn anything new and it's just a masturbatory project)[/QUOTE]You can't donate kickstarter funds to charity, it's against their rules.
[QUOTE=Crimor;39857650]I really hate the concept of feminism(and MRA before you whine about that), there's no way to gain gender equality if you only focus on one side.[/QUOTE]Feminism is about equality, it's just usually focused on women because women are and have been exposed to so much more injustice.
[QUOTE=Crimor;39857650]I really hate the concept of feminism(and MRA before you whine about that), there's no way to gain gender equality if you only focus on one side.[/QUOTE]
feminism does focus on both sides. almost every feminist will admit there are ways men are oppressed by patriarchy as well. the whole concept of feminism is that there is a patriarchy that sets gender roles for people and society expects these gender roles to be met, which causes unfair expectations for both men and women.
the reason for the word feminism is that when this idea was being introduced, women were very overtly oppressed in society and feminism sought to liberate women from those shackles. nowadays there are a lot more blurred lines due to progress made, but still a very clear distinction between men and women that feminists still critique and seek to change.
[QUOTE=Crimor;39857650]I really hate the concept of feminism(and MRA before you whine about that), there's no way to gain gender equality if you only focus on one side.[/QUOTE]
I really hate it when people talk about subjects they don't know anything about.
After seeing her first video, I didn't think it was anything special. It was historically accurate for the parts when she talked about early uses of the trope in video games, but I also had some issues with it. She assumes that just because a woman is being rescued, means that it is because she is a woman, like with Zelda. She is kidnapped because she has part of the triforce with her, not because she is a woman. It wouldn't change anything if it was a man and to be honest I think that the series would get some flak if the three main characters were male.
In the part about Wind Waker, she mentions that once Zelda becomes garbed in her princess attire, she has to wait behind and can't join the fight anymore. This makes me question whether she played the game or if she purposefully withheld information, but immediately before this, Ganondorf found out that it was her who was truly Zelda because he had been searching for her, which is why Link's sister was kidnapped to begin with. Now that he knows exactly who he is looking for, it would be much easier to find Zelda.
In the Star Fox example, I understand why Krystal would no longer be the main character. Shigeru thought that it would work well as the next Star Fox game, so it became one. It makes more sense for Fox to be the main character. There were two main characters in the prototype N64 game, and Krystal is a main character of Adventures. I played the game several years ago, but you do get to play as her. I didn't get to the end because I got too bored of the game, but she definitely does exist as a main playable character. Anita doesn't mention that and only shows the scene in which Fox meets her and is stunned by her beauty.
She seems to think that when something happens to a woman, it is because she is a woman. Now, I'm not denying that in many cases, the character who needs rescuing is indeed a female. This is likely because the main demographic for these games, especially in the past, has been and still is the male gender. I think that if there were more females who bought and played these games, there would be less things in the games that strictly pander to males.
The trope does not exist because its users seek to objectify women. It is not used to keep female characters out of lead roles. It is used because it is a simple plot device that appeals to the main demographic. She references Shigeru many times and says that he populated use of the trope in video games. His stance on plot in video games is that it should be very minimal and effort should be directed to gameplay instead of plot. This is why he uses it in Mario and Zelda. It just serves as something to provide motivation for the main character, not to be some sexist message. This trope does not harm women or even make them less likely to play the games. Hell, I'm pretty sure that the Zelda games are popular among female gamers.
It doesn't matter whether the main character is a male or female, whether the person being rescued is male or female, because in the end it doesn't change how the game is played at all. In Metroid: Other M she saved Anthony from Ridley. Does this suddenly harm men and keep them out of lead roles? No, the scene would've been no different if it were a man in the Power Suit, or if it were a robot, or if it was some other androgynous being. It wouldn't have mattered if Anthony was some other gender, either. The point of the scene is to give motivation for the task being done, and I think that the idea that having a woman being rescued is a bad thing is absurd.
It is regarded as a bad thing because some people associate it with women being weak and not being able to fend for themselves. Needing a strong man to rescue them.
[QUOTE=lemonsman;39857906]After seeing her first video, I didn't think it was anything special. It was historically accurate for the parts when she talked about early uses of the trope in video games, but I also had some issues with it. She assumes that just because a woman is being rescued, means that it is because she is a woman, like with Zelda. She is kidnapped because she has part of the triforce with her, not because she is a woman. It wouldn't change anything if it was a man and to be honest I think that the series would get some flak if the three main characters were male.
In the part about Wind Waker, she mentions that once Zelda becomes garbed in her princess attire, she has to wait behind and can't join the fight anymore. This makes me question whether she played the game or if she purposefully withheld information, but immediately before this, Ganondorf found out that it was her who was truly Zelda because he had been searching for her, which is why Link's sister was kidnapped to begin with. Now that he knows exactly who he is looking for, it would be much easier to find Zelda.
In the Star Fox example, I understand why Krystal would no longer be the main character. Shigeru thought that it would work well as the next Star Fox game, so it became one. It makes more sense for Fox to be the main character. There were two main characters in the prototype N64 game, and Krystal is a main character of Adventures. I played the game several years ago, but you do get to play as her. I didn't get to the end because I got too bored of the game, but she definitely does exist as a main playable character. Anita doesn't mention that and only shows the scene in which Fox meets her and is stunned by her beauty.
She seems to think that when something happens to a woman, it is because she is a woman. Now, I'm not denying that in many cases, the character who needs rescuing is indeed a female. This is likely because the main demographic for these games, especially in the past, has been and still is the male gender. I think that if there were more females who bought and played these games, there would be less things in the games that strictly pander to males.
The trope does not exist because its users seek to objectify women. It is not used to keep female characters out of lead roles. It is used because it is a simple plot device that appeals to the main demographic. She references Shigeru many times and says that he populated use of the trope in video games. His stance on plot in video games is that it should be very minimal and effort should be directed to gameplay instead of plot. This is why he uses it in Mario and Zelda. It just serves as something to provide motivation for the main character, not to be some sexist message. This trope does not harm women or even make them less likely to play the games. Hell, I'm pretty sure that the Zelda games are popular among female gamers.
It doesn't matter whether the main character is a male or female, whether the person being rescued is male or female, because in the end it doesn't change how the game is played at all. In Metroid: Other M she saved Anthony from Ridley. Does this suddenly harm men and keep them out of lead roles? No, the scene would've been no different if it were a man in the Power Suit, or if it were a robot, or if it was some other androgynous being. It wouldn't have mattered if Anthony was some other gender, either. The point of the scene is to give motivation for the task being done, and I think that the idea that having a woman being rescued is a bad thing is absurd.[/QUOTE]
you are ignoring a greater context. why is the idea of women being captured and appealing to a main demographic? why is it employed so much? how did it become a plot device in the first place? she is highlighting the fact that this trope is used a lot in video games. it doesn't mean that the game maker was sexist or trying to send a sexist message, it means that this is symptomatic of a larger issue and at the same time perpetuating that issue.
one game doesn't make women become perceived as weak. it takes hundreds or thousands of these portrayals in a greater context of popular media.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;39858018]you are ignoring a greater context. why is the idea of women being captured and appealing to a main demographic? why is it employed so much? how did it become a plot device in the first place? she is highlighting the fact that this trope is used a lot in video games. it doesn't mean that the game maker was sexist or trying to send a sexist message, it means that this is symptomatic of a larger issue and at the same time perpetuating that issue.
one game doesn't make women become perceived as weak. it takes hundreds or thousands of these portrayals in a greater context of popular media.[/QUOTE]
It's employed so much because it is easy to use and requires little thinking on the developer's side. For a long time, women have been highly valued because of their ability to produce children. If a tribe was massacred and only had a few women remaining, but more men, it would be much more problematic than if there were a few men and more women because a man can inseminate more than one woman at a time, while a woman has to go through 9 months before they can have a child. Because of this, women were things to be protected not because they were weaker, but just because they were more important. It is appealing to many males because well, it makes them feel stronger when if they are able to save somebody. If it is a female, then a male person playing the game might feel more motivated because whether it is instinctive or just part of our culture, men generally want to protect women.
Yes, it is a trope used in many video games but why does it mean that women are weak? It could also mean that women are important, so they are targeted by the antagonist.
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