• Projection, much?: Tropes Vs MEN creators abscond with cash.
    392 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39859877]He doesn't become any less of a damsel in distress, I don't really know what you're trying to get at but the trope itself is not harmful and the games that use it don't suddenly become problematic in any way. It's a completely different thing when a woman saves a woman, a man saves a man, when a woman saves a man, and when a man saves a woman. In my opinion the most progressive of those is when a woman saves a man because it's dissenting views of gender roles and it shows that dudebros can need help 2 ;( and that woman can be heroes. The point of the videos isn't that the damsel in distress trope is bad, it's that the way the industry relies on it and uses it is harmful to women.[/QUOTE] Uh she literally says that the damsel in distress trope "dis-empowers female characters and robs them of the chance to be hero's in their own right". So what, no one should ever need saving in a video game? Literally everyone should be a hero? That's what she's saying. The damsel in distress trope is bad because it means someone needs saving and isn't a hero.
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39859911]I know, if people factored in tax, kickstarter's percentage, and the cost of the perks I don't think they'd be so mangry. It's not like she's being thrown (or ever HAD the intention of being thrown) 160,000 to do what she's doing. If she had only planned to get 6,000 creating a complete DVD would be a WAY larger chunk of that money. For real, people are just looking for things to attack.[/QUOTE] also correct. price of dvd production obviously goes down per dvd as you make more, and kickstarter takes roughly at 20% percentage off of the gross, and then you have taxes to consider. She'd probably only be looking at $3000ish left over if she had only just hit her goal? mayb less. i dunno what the incentives were [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;39859938]Uh she literally says that the damsel in distress trope "dis-empowers female characters and robs them of the chance to be hero's in their own right". So what, no one should ever need saving in a video game? Literally everyone should be a hero? That's what she's saying. The damsel in distress trope is bad because it means someone needs saving and isn't a hero.[/QUOTE] nope not what she is saying lol
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39859946]also correct. price of dvd production obviously goes down per dvd as you make more, and kickstarter takes roughly at 20% percentage off of the gross, and then you have taxes to consider. She'd probably only be looking at $3000ish left over if she had only just hit her goal? mayb less. i dunno what the incentives were [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] nope not what she is saying lol[/QUOTE] That is literally what she said in the video dude.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;39859937]Now that got me thinking. Certainly sheds some lights on this, but still. I think it's different. There's no valid reason for race humiliation, except power desires growing from an inflated ego. The driving point of the tropes is natural human attraction.. But I guess there is a power desire side to that aswell.. not always, though. ugh, I really can't wrap my head around this topic. Been trying for a good while, yet i'm still standing somewhere inbetween everything. maybe one day I'll figure it out.[/QUOTE] remember saving a woman from evil clutches or whatever is more about having the power to do what the woman cannot do on her own more so than attraction to the woman, though that is an element. that's what discrimination is always about, regardless of context, power. being better than group X, ie having more power than group X we'll figure it out eventually. [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;39859954]That is literally what she said in the video dude.[/QUOTE] she literally said "no one should ever need saving in a video game", did she? well, let's check the tapes nope
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39859969]remember saving a woman from evil clutches or whatever is more about having the power to do what the woman cannot do on her own more so than attraction to the woman, though that is an element. that's what discrimination is always about, regardless of context, power. being better than group X, ie having more power than group X we'll figure it out eventually. [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] she literally said "no one should ever need saving in a video game", did she? well, let's check the tapes nope[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]dis-empowers female characters and robs them of the chance to be hero's in their own right[/QUOTE] Robs them of the chance to be hero's. Hero's don't need saving.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39859938]Uh she literally says that the damsel in distress trope "dis-empowers female characters and robs them of the chance to be hero's in their own right". So what, no one should ever need saving in a video game? Literally everyone should be a hero? That's what she's saying. The damsel in distress trope is bad because it means someone needs saving and isn't a hero.[/QUOTE] quote mining takes things out of context
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39859758]I don't think I get it.[/QUOTE] When we didn't overanalyze things to hell and back. Kinda like how some guy said Ash's story in Pokemon is all his imagination while in a coma, giving a shitload of psychological reasons and philosofies and so on. Kinda like, walking up to a kid who has a CoD game, give him a one hour lecture on why he shouldn't buy any CoD or anything from Activision because of A B or C, and completely forgetting the fact that the kid doesn't gives a shit about any of those reasons and just likes the game because its fun.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39859994]Robs them of the chance to be hero's. Hero's don't need saving.[/QUOTE] oh, so she didn't literally say "no one should be a hero" but that the damsel in distress trope "dis-empowers female characters and robs them of the chance to be hero's in their own right" hm thanks for proving my point! [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=dass;39860011]When we didn't overanalyze things to hell and back. Kinda like how some guy said Ash's story in Pokemon is all his imagination while in a coma, giving a shitload of psychological reasons and philosofies and so on. Kinda like, walking up to a kid who has a CoD game, give him a one hour lecture on why he shouldn't buy any CoD or anything from Activision because of A B or C, and completely forgetting the fact that the kid doesn't gives a shit about any of those reasons and just likes the game because its fun.[/QUOTE] who is "we" lol
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39859995]quote mining takes things out of context[/QUOTE] Context doesn't put any restrictions on nor clarifies that sentence. I don't see it meaning anything else, but please do enlighten me.
yeah fuck morals or actually furthering the human race through media I just wanna blow stuff up! [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers2;39860026]Context doesn't put any restrictions on nor clarifies that sentence. I don't see it meaning anything else, but please do enlighten me.[/QUOTE] it means literally what she says, not that "no one should be a hero" or whatever you got out of it but that the damsel in distress trope dis-empowers women. there's nothing more to take out of that quote than that, you're making it out to mean more than it does.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860012]oh, so she didn't literally say "no one should be a hero" but that the damsel in distress trope "dis-empowers female characters and robs them of the chance to be hero's in their own right" hm thanks for proving my point! [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] who is "we" lol[/QUOTE] When no one should be robbed of the chance to be a hero, everyone should be a hero. Since you're not a hero when you're captured, no one should get captured since everyone should be a hero.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39860049]When no one should be robbed of the chance to be a hero, everyone should be a hero. Since you're not a hero when you're captured, no one should get captured since everyone should be a hero.[/QUOTE] that's "LITERALLY" (!!!) not what she said
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860029]yeah fuck morals or actually furthering the human race through media I just wanna blow stuff up! [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] it means literally what she says, not that "no one should be a hero" or whatever you got out of it but that the damsel in distress trope dis-empowers women. there's nothing more to take out of that quote than that, you're making it out to mean more than it does.[/QUOTE] I never said no "no one should be a hero"..
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39860058]I never said no "no one should be a hero"..[/QUOTE] well the inverse of "everyone should be a hero" is "no one should be a hero" it's the same thing lol
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39859969]remember saving a woman from evil clutches or whatever is more about having the power to do what the woman cannot do on her own more so than attraction to the woman, though that is an element. that's what discrimination is always about, regardless of context, power. being better than group X, ie having more power than group X we'll figure it out eventually. [/QUOTE] soo it doesn't actively discriminate, but it does propagate the idea of discrimination. That makes sense to me. well, thanks for leading me to at least a single conclusion. Helps to sort out this mess that are my thoughts. I'll have to think some more about the rest of the points she brings up, such as the smurfette syndrome and the others, tomorrow. I'm off to bed now.
[QUOTE=Hellduck;39859775]Well they're not now, there's been too many good ones with proper stories for them just to stay as mindless whack-a-mole simulators anymore. So you might as well embrace the change, and while you're at it support this documentary, because it might actually change something, and make videogames a more valid art-form. [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] Sorry, that reads a bit like a personal attack, but its more directed at everyone who's throwing a hissy fit over the documentary.[/QUOTE] I know and I agree with that. While it sort of aches to see her analyze everything and say it has this or that (not because of "hurr its not sexism" but more because its a game and nobody usually cares about it in a sexist kind of way) she does has good points. The Starfox one was indeed pretty dumb, and I found the crystal scene to be pretty bad, like some high school teen's episode or something. It also blocked a chance for a refreshing new character. Which takes me to the second point: soo many games that could have had a female lead character... Actually, that makes me curious about how much would be different in the videogame world nowadays. I wonder if the genres and elements we see today would have been different and more refreshing...
[QUOTE=Shadaez;39859911]I know, if people factored in tax, kickstarter's percentage, and the cost of the perks I don't think they'd be so mangry. It's not like she's being thrown (or ever HAD the intention of being thrown) 160,000 to do what she's doing. If she had only planned to get 6,000 creating a complete DVD would be a WAY larger chunk of that money. For real, people are just looking for things to attack.[/QUOTE] No, but the point is that even the original goal is supposed to cover all costs. In a well-designed budget, $6k would be enough to cover the costs of all the perk products, your project, and anything else the money were intended for. In this case, we can see 738 persons are eligible to get the stickers, 165 will also get a post-card from her (which are taken from her previous travel and therefore have a zero-cost in production), and about 51 people will get a DVD set. I can't say for sure I knew what that would cost. But I doubt the entire perk-production would cost her more than $15k (and that's stretching it). KS takes 5% as their share. that's $7946. add to that the assumed perk cost, 15 000. Add taxes to that, i assume they will tax the amount she actually recieves ($151 246), and assuming %34 income tax( I know jack-shit about US taxing), she's down to $99822. Remove the initial 6 and we get $93822 that will be, as I was hoping before, used to conduct more extensive research like actually asking game developers stuff. The crux is that all of this scales down. In this very simple and atrocious calculation that will make the engineers of FP kill me, I concluded that even with a healthy assumed portion taken off she still has about 2/3 of what was pledged. This means she would have slightly less than $4k if she would've exactly met the pledge goal. This means, that if she planned her budget thoroughly(I'm not saying she did or didn't do that), the cost of this project lies at around $3.5k. So no, it would not take a WAY larger chunk of that money.
[QUOTE=JurajIsNotPirat;39860088]soo it doesn't actively discriminate, but it does propagate the idea of discrimination. That makes sense to me. well, thanks for leading me to at least a single conclusion. Helps to sort out this mess that are my thoughts. I'll have to think some more about the rest of the points she brings up, such as the smurfette syndrome and the others, tomorrow. I'm off to bed now.[/QUOTE] sleep tight cutie pie [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=G-Strogg;39860096]No, but the point is that even the original goal is supposed to cover all costs. In a well-designed budget, $6k would be enough to cover the costs of all the perk products, your project, and anything else the money were intended for. In this case, we can see 738 persons are eligible to get the stickers, 165 will also get a post-card from her (which are taken from her previous travel and therefore have a zero-cost in production), and about 51 people will get a DVD set. I can't say for sure I knew what that would cost. But I doubt the entire perk-production would cost her more than $15k (and that's stretching it). KS takes 5% as their share. that's $7946. add to that the assumed perk cost, 15 000. Add taxes to that, i assume they will tax the amount she actually recieves ($151 246), and assuming %34 income tax( I know jack-shit about US taxing), she's down to $99822. Remove the initial 6 and we get $93822 that will be, as I was hoping before, used to conduct more extensive research like actually asking game developers stuff. The crux is that all of this scales down. In this very simple and atrocious calculation that will make the engineers of FP kill me, I concluded that even with a healthy assumed portion taken off she still has about 2/3 of what was pledged. This means she would have slightly less than $4k if she would've exactly met the pledge goal. This means, that if she planned her budget thoroughly(I'm not saying she did or didn't do that), the cost of this project lies at around $3.5k. So no, it would not take a WAY larger chunk of that money.[/QUOTE] lol you did so much work to come up with a completely irrelevant number!
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860012]who is "we" lol[/QUOTE] "we" as in everyone who overanalyzes something fun to the point of turning it into a study (in this case)
[QUOTE=dass;39860114]"we" as in everyone who overanalyzes something fun to the point of turning it into a study (in this case)[/QUOTE] you're promoting ignorance.
In any case after all this rabble I have decided to make my own video series called "People treat video games like glorified movies" because I haven't seen someone consider how video games actually work in ages and just go straight off story and how some characters behave. And no this isn't a jab at Anita specifically p much the entirety of gaming journalism is responsible for that.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860078]well the inverse of "everyone should be a hero" is "no one should be a hero" it's the same thing lol[/QUOTE] The direct opposite of something is the same thing lol :downs:
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39860026]Context doesn't put any restrictions on nor clarifies that sentence. I don't see it meaning anything else, but please do enlighten me.[/QUOTE] Yes it does, she is talking about what the majority of video games do, and she is 100% right so I don't get where you're going, just because there's some out-liars doesn't invalidate what she said. The trope does not inherently "dis-empower female characters and rob them of the chance to be heroes in their own right" but the way it is perpetually used by the game industry in most games is to "dis-empower female characters and rob them of the chance to be heroes in their own right" also obviously she is talking about when a man is rescuing a woman, this is because that's how the trope is most often used and applied. It is the normal use for the trope.
no one is forcing you to analyze anything anyway, so what do you care? If you want to just enjoy a game because it's fun, go ahead. No one is forgetting it's fun to shoot people in a video game, etc, we're just trying to think about why it's fun, and perhaps trying to move on.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860100]sleep tight cutie pie [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [B]lol you did so much work to come up with a completely irrelevant number![/B][/QUOTE] Is this your natural state of mind or have I personally offended you somehow.
[QUOTE=mobrockers2;39860144]The direct opposite of something is the same thing lol :downs:[/QUOTE] You could infer that she is saying "no one should be a hero" using the same logic you used to infer she is saying "everyone should be a hero" so in this situation yes, it's the same idea. [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=G-Strogg;39860160]Is this your natural state of mind or have I personally offended you somehow.[/QUOTE] I'm being serious, I've said many times what she spends her money on is completely irrelevant particularly to you as you have no investment in this project nor do you actually know how she is spending the money and all of your "calculations" are based on conjecture.
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;39860096]No, but the point is that even the original goal is supposed to cover all costs. In a well-designed budget, $6k would be enough to cover the costs of all the perk products, your project, and anything else the money were intended for. In this case, we can see 738 persons are eligible to get the stickers, 165 will also get a post-card from her (which are taken from her previous travel and therefore have a zero-cost in production), and about 51 people will get a DVD set. I can't say for sure I knew what that would cost. But I doubt the entire perk-production would cost her more than $15k (and that's stretching it). KS takes 5% as their share. that's $7946. add to that the assumed perk cost, 15 000. Add taxes to that, i assume they will tax the amount she actually recieves ($151 246), and assuming %34 income tax( I know jack-shit about US taxing), she's down to $99822. Remove the initial 6 and we get $93822 that will be, as I was hoping before, used to conduct more extensive research like actually asking game developers stuff. The crux is that all of this scales down. In this very simple and atrocious calculation that will make the engineers of FP kill me, I concluded that even with a healthy assumed portion taken off she still has about 2/3 of what was pledged. This means she would have slightly less than $4k if she would've exactly met the pledge goal. This means, that if she planned her budget thoroughly(I'm not saying she did or didn't do that), the cost of this project lies at around $3.5k. So no, it would not take a WAY larger chunk of that money.[/QUOTE] Well for one, thanks for remaining civil and not just blabbering your mouth like an idiot because you hate Anita, it's nice to actually talk to someone about this! Still people are blaming her for something she had no control of. It's her money to use as she feels is right in order to deliver the product that she pitched to get the money. If I had the money at the time I would have donated. If she opened up a donation thing on her site, I would donate, and I would hope she used the money for herself in whatever way would help her deliver content (which means living expenses, eating, whatever). If she's devoting her time to this project it means she is not working, and supporting her financially is a legitimate use of the money.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860171]You could infer that she is saying "no one should be a hero" using the same logic you used to infer she is saying "everyone should be a hero" so in this situation yes, it's the same idea. [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] I'm being serious, I've said many times what she spends her money on is completely irrelevant particularly to you as you have no investment in this project nor do you actually know how she is spending the money and all of your "calculations" are based on conjecture.[/QUOTE] Yes, because you are the boss of my interests. I mean, you're right, it IS irrelevant to me, but the subject is pretty fucking interesting because I am actually looking forward to the coming videos #whoa and I am definitely allowed to have an opinion on "what could have been done better". You're not the governing right of peoples interests. Even if you were, you're coming off as a huge ass and I'd appreciate it if you stopped.
[QUOTE=RoadOfGirl;39860132]you're promoting ignorance.[/QUOTE] No, just... No... I don't even know how to reply to this. So, I should analyze every little thing and question if its sexist or racist or anything else?
[QUOTE=G-Strogg;39860217]Yes, because you are the boss of my interests. I mean, you're right, it IS irrelevant to me, but the subject is pretty fucking interesting because I am actually looking forward to the coming videos #whoa and I am definitely allowed to have an opinion on "what could have been done better". You're not the governing right of peoples interests. Even if you were, you're coming off as a huge ass and I'd appreciate it if you stopped.[/QUOTE] you're looking forward to the videos by GUESSING where she is spending the money? and I'm sorry you don't like can't win 'em all ): [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=dass;39860236]No, just... No... I don't even know how to reply to this. So, I should analyze every little thing and question if its sexist or racist or anything else?[/QUOTE] that's for you to decide, isn't it [editline]10th March 2013[/editline] I'm not saying you should or shouldn't but don't discourage people from analyzing things. what kind of mindset is that?
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