South African students protest against school's alleged racist hair policy. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50996179]Proof? Besides, even if what you say is true, you can destroy cliques once they're created/take preventative measures like education on why cliques are bad. Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch, a few people forming clothes-based cliques doesn't justify banning it for everyone.[/QUOTE] How in the fuck do you destroy groups and cliqs?

[QUOTE=Swilly;50996204]How in the fuck do you destroy groups and cliqs?[/QUOTE] As I said, take preventative measures (that DON'T involve ruining everything for everyone else), or destroy them by punishing the students who create/are in them.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50996217]As I said, take preventative measures (that DON'T involve ruining everything for everyone else), or destroy them by punishing the students who create/are in them.[/QUOTE] I want your smoking. Because that's physically impossible. People group up naturally.

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50996217]As I said, take preventative measures (that DON'T involve ruining everything for everyone else), or destroy them by punishing the students who create/are in them.[/QUOTE] ...how exactly do you suggest [i]punishing[/i] students who are in friend groups together? Cliques are a literal hollywood myth. Friends hang out with each other - if they don't like you, they won't hang out with you. This continues into adulthood. It's human socialization. Unless you think kids should get detention because they don't want to hang out with Bob because his breath stinks and he's a racist.

[QUOTE=Swilly;50996165]That's not going to work. Clicks form no matter what.[/QUOTE] they form in uniforms too. and you know what? They get ignored by teachers and left to bully other kids. Unless those kids are caught in the act, because the teachers see them as nicely dressed kids, those kids get away with horrible shit.

[QUOTE=.Isak.;50996232]...how exactly do you suggest [i]punishing[/i] students who are in friend groups together? Cliques are a literal hollywood myth. Friends hang out with each other - if they don't like you, they won't hang out with you. This continues into adulthood. It's human socialization. Unless you think kids should get detention because they don't want to hang out with Bob because his breath stinks and he's a racist.[/QUOTE] I'm talking about situations where kids group up and harass/bully other students. [i]Those[/i] types of groups. Besides, even if you can't stop them, don't ruin everything for everyone else because of a few bad apples.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50996112]this is about the environment that I believe uniforms help foster. I believe they foster a negative one, and everything about my experience showed me that.[/QUOTE] I mean, there's really nothing anyone can say to dispute this. I also wore uniforms and didn't feel stifled at all in school, and many people would agree with me. It seems to me that you're confusing cause and effect. You went to an authoritarian school who used uniforms (the authoritarianism caused the uniforms), but you're instead blaming the uniforms for the authoritarianism. I doubt your experience would have been much difference if they had replaced the uniforms with a strict dress policy.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50996241]they form in uniforms too. and you know what? They get ignored by teachers and left to bully other kids. Unless those kids are caught in the act, because the teachers see them as nicely dressed kids, those kids get away with horrible shit.[/QUOTE] That's the exact opposite of what I experienced as a kid. In fact the introduction of uniforms in my district actually helped stop the bullying that got me hospitoalized.

[QUOTE=sgman91;50996244]I mean, there's really nothing anyone can say to dispute this. I also wore uniforms and didn't feel stifled at all in school, and many people would agree with me. It seems to me that you're confusing cause and effect. You went to an authoritarian school who used uniforms (the authoritarianism caused the uniforms), but you're instead blaming the uniforms for the authoritarianism. I doubt your experience would have been much difference if they had replaced the uniforms with a strict dress policy.[/QUOTE] Maybe, maybe not. Uniforms aren't a positive thing in my mind. They were part of a method of control of students that ultimately just let the shitty kids slip through the cracks because those two kids look the same from 150 meters away so you just have to go with the groups mentality when they say "so and so did this" even though it was the other kid. All kids did was get away from the teachers, and then bully other kids. If we complained, they just said "I couldn't see that from here" or "it didn't look like that from here" to avoid doing anything. Maybe that's universal and not a uniform based thing but if everyones uniform is the same it's pretty hard for a teacher to see 3 similarly sized students and know which one is which from a distance. [editline]3rd September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Swilly;50996252]That's the exact opposite of what I experienced as a kid. In fact the introduction of uniforms in my district actually helped stop the bullying that got me hospitoalized.[/QUOTE] oh good for you It didn't do that for me

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50996261] [editline]3rd September 2016[/editline] oh good for you It didn't do that for me[/QUOTE] You're using anecdote, I just pointed it out and your fine work it. This isn't a debate, this is a disagreement.

[QUOTE=Swilly;50996279]You're using anecdote, I just pointed it out and your fine work it. This isn't a debate, this is a disagreement.[/QUOTE] Did you not just use an anecdote as well?

[QUOTE=MaximLaHaxim;50996285]Did you not just use an anecdote as well?[/QUOTE] That was my point in responding to his. Anecdotes ate shifty reason to approach a subject.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;50995303]I've worn uniforms all my life, and the purpose of that is exactly what they state; to make everyone uniform. If you all look the same in terms of what you're wearing that's one less thing to cause a point of contention in the student population. I didn't mind it one bit personally, made dressing for school a hell of a lot easier and I never saw someone get teased over their choice in clothing.[/QUOTE] What's the purpose of making everyone uniform? I'm not sure how does looking uniform would substantially reduce contention, but even if it did, consider that uniforms are causing severe contention by themselves as evidenced by OP. "Well you won't be bullied for clothing" is meaningless because self expression or clothing or anything don't cause bullying. The desire to make someone miserable causes bullying, which in turn is caused by more far-reaching issues. When you're in the business of bullying someone, it's meaningless what they're wearing.

Why are people so anal about uniforms? I get that we're talking about dress codes, but there's no reason to get borderline personal.

[QUOTE=Talvy;50996382]Why are people so anal about uniforms? I get that we're talking about dress codes, but there's no reason to get borderline personal.[/QUOTE] Because they're pointless, reactionary, and limit self-expression.

[QUOTE=Swilly;50996292]That was my point in responding to his. Anecdotes ate shifty reason to approach a subject.[/QUOTE] unless you're agreeing that your anecdote is meaningless as well I was bullied harshly for many years. Uniforms played a part in that. You can say they didn't, but they did. [editline]3rd September 2016[/editline] I can't imagine cost being a reason to go for uniforms. Uniforms are way more expensive than they have any right to be and are expensive enough to make poor kids have trouble with it let alone with so called "designer brands" that they're going to care about Shit affects kids differently. I'm sorry if you all think I'm wrong for thinking that uniforms and the atmosphere that goes with it can be bad for some kids. I'm just stating there isn't a easy catch all cover all situation.

I don't really understand the "It's to make kids realize that obeying the government is important!" argument everyone is pushing. How the fuck does giving kids a [i]uniform[/i] enforce "Obey the government!"?

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50996112]it created a fucking terrible atmosphere in my experience. I get why you or other people like them. I didn't. I wore them every day for a long, long time. i hated it. I wear suits and shit now. It's not a matter of style. It's a matter of it being restrictive, and part of a older and more harmful system. You said "kids find ways to express themselves anyways" yes they do. And bullies are just as bad, maybe worse in that system because they blend in so easily to the teachers. Uniforms were bad, being a part of a school that embraced them was the real shitty part though.[/QUOTE] I wouldn't say we liked them per se, it was just one of those things you had to do and we didn't think too much of it. It honestly wasn't that big a deal for us is all. And I'd have to respectfully disagree with you on the teachers thing - can't speak for your own experiences, but I'd be surprised if teachers can only tell bullies apart from other students by what they're wearing.

[QUOTE=Dissolution;50993257]it's an outdated practice kept up by overly traditionalist morons, i don't see how anybody can argue in favor of it honestly[/QUOTE] my headteacher would prefer non-uniform but you get a lower Ofsted score if you don't have a uniform. if you have anything lower than a 2 on your hair then you get punished, too.

Well, in france, you don't have to wears uniform.. that is, if you're not in a private school.. They just ask for decency, no t shirt with an edgy skull or something too violent/gore/sexual :p No skirt for girl too, i heard it was because boy used to peak under them or just lift them up.

Everyone is arguing about their own personal experiences with uniforms. (Went to public school, wore what I want; don't have an opinion) No one is discussing the fact that people think its [i]racist[/i] that they have to adhere to a hair dress code that everyone else has to?