Will Smith says that we can now cleanse trump supporters. - Polidicks

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50868433]Every art piece of Adam and Eve I see theyre white and that bitch ate the apple that caused all the knowledge of evil[/QUOTE] White people are the root of ALL evil then oh god its true!

I assume that's her argument since she mentions Jews/Gentiles/Devils

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;50868436]I assume that's her argument since she mentions Jews/Gentiles/Devils[/QUOTE] That isn't from Warren BTW. It's from Muhammed Ali.

I didn't know we were talking about warren either tbh. But knowing its from Muhammad Ali at least shows the bias

[QUOTE=J!NX;50867940]Yes we absolutely should socially isolate racists and homophobes I have no care for anyone who believes in treating other human beings as second class citizens and anyone who thinks they deserve to be taken seriously and not laughed in the face at can go away [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] and please, no one turn this into big idiotic a segregation thing, its not the fucking same thing[/QUOTE] Why do people believe that isolating bigots is an efficient way to deal with bigotry? This is just stupid. It's like sweeping dirt under a rug. The only thing that's gonna achieve is funnel these people into echo chambers where their beliefs will be further reinforced and radicalized. By punishing these people like this, you favor their victim complex, entrenching them further in their feeling of righteousness. And if they are truly isolated, lonely and without social contact, it might lead them to become violent. I doubt the US need any more mass shootings.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50869481]Why do people believe that isolating bigots is an efficient way to deal with bigotry? This is just stupid. It's like sweeping dirt under a rug. The only thing that's gonna achieve is funnel these people into echo chambers where their beliefs will be further reinforced and radicalized. By punishing these people like this, you favor their victim complex, entrenching them further in their feeling of righteousness. And if they are truly isolated, lonely and without social contact, it might lead them to become violent. I doubt the US need any more mass shootings.[/QUOTE] It's like arresting a conspiracy theorist for spouting dumb conspiracy theories. Even if the theories are dumb you are essentially validating their position. The way to win is to discuss and debate.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50869481]Why do people believe that isolating bigots is an efficient way to deal with bigotry? This is just stupid. It's like sweeping dirt under a rug. The only thing that's gonna achieve is funnel these people into echo chambers where their beliefs will be further reinforced and radicalized. By punishing these people like this, you favor their victim complex, entrenching them further in their feeling of righteousness. And if they are truly isolated, lonely and without social contact, it might lead them to become violent. I doubt the US need any more mass shootings.[/QUOTE] why are you treating it like we're just isolating and ignoring people physically, and even then why is removing toxic people from your life as an individual [i]bad[/i]? Radical assholes are probably already radical, removing yourself from the picture isn't changing their views at all because they probably didn't care for your counter arguments in the first place the whole point of the statement is trump basically outed assholes as assholes because his whole rhetoric has been an enabler for various behaviors. Think about how racist asshats came out of the woodwork so brazenly after the brexit vote came in, if Trump somehow gets the presidency we'll see the same thing, aimed heavily at latinos and asians Now because a lot of people have shown negative face already, we as a country have a much better picture of the problems we have. The big picture here is [i]we as a culture[/i] can identify our issues a bit more accurately from this knowledge, and can guide our gradual progress faster with the clarity.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50867680]I don't think he meant it in any bad way. It's clear he just meant to wash the bad out through socially isolating them away from groups that thing positively[/QUOTE] And through using Gestapo tactics no doubt. It was a shitty way of wording things, a dumb thing to say. I support his right to say it but i also support trump to suggest the second amendment people have an answer for that.

I think it's unprecedented with how many celebrities have spoken out against a Presidential candidate. In past elections you might have had one or two put their two cents in, but with Donald Trump there's been so much outcry against him. Not that that's a bad thing, as he kind of deserves it.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;50868012]Why are you people even whining so much about choices of word anyway The form is a bit wonky but the substance is clear enough. Only idiots focus on the former and ignore the latter.[/QUOTE] hi i worked at a war crimes tribunal for the office of the prosecutor analyzing the use of language and why it's important in genocide (hint: it's BIG! BIG! BIG!) throughout history the word "cleanse" (along with variants of "mop" "wipe" etc) have been used in wartime as linguistic code for the systematic elimination of various ethnic, religious, and sociopolitical groups. its prominence in genocide [B]cannot [/B]be understated. cleanse is so prominent in genocide that laymen know its implications [I]across language barriers[/i]. from a legal perspective, [B]words[/B] like cleanse and many others (used in derogatory manners) are what provides a lens into the mindset of the individual, assisting in the establishment of the guilty mind, or specific intent to commit genocide, which is a requirement for conviction of said crime. so yes, while "only an idiot" may focus solely on the former and explicitly ignore the latter, the overall message of your post (which I interpret to be "word choice doesn't really matter") is something I would highly, highly disagree with. yes, it's probably clear to most that Will Smith doesn't intend to suggest that we should systematically round up trump supporters, however given our current political context - one filled to the brim with racial strife - that word choice on his part is quite unfortunate. in fact, that concept is applicable to much of the 2016 election cycle as well. what matters isn't Trump's platform - while it's certainly embarrassing, it's not inherently racist. Border protection works into the broader scheme of "bringing back the american worker" that Trump's populism is based off of. it's when he's saying shit like "they're not sending their best, they're sending rapists" - you can convey the same content in a way that does not indicate racist mind. simply state that "criminal elements frequently cross the border and harm the safety of america, thus we should amplify our border defense." no racial shit in that one, and in fact, it's a truthful statement. it's Trump's use of the word [I]they[/I] that makes all the difference in that policy point. While it may be subtle, it's fucking imperative to analyzing the impact he's having on our political process by fanning these really basic and racist fears. tldr: words matter a lot

[QUOTE=Thlis;50868094]Or maybe it's just a very stupidly worded statement?[/QUOTE] The form is clumsy because it's a bit ambiguous whether he means cleanse as in get it out of our system and focus on other things, or cleanse as in push the idea and its supporters out the door. Eitherway it's terribly obvious he didn't mean it as in violent cleansing or murder and anyone who'd think that probably needs to step away from the news for a bit and come back down to planet Earth. Ultimately he's right in substance. It provides people with experience regarding these things and now that people got to witness this sort of idiocy on a nationwide scale they may be able to reconsider the usefulness of these policies and move onto other options.

[QUOTE=_Axel;50869481]Why do people believe that isolating bigots is an efficient way to deal with bigotry? This is just stupid. It's like sweeping dirt under a rug. The only thing that's gonna achieve is funnel these people into echo chambers where their beliefs will be further reinforced and radicalized. By punishing these people like this, you favor their victim complex, entrenching them further in their feeling of righteousness. And if they are truly isolated, lonely and without social contact, it might lead them to become violent. I doubt the US need any more mass shootings.[/QUOTE] Not that I don't somewhat agree with you. You can't forcefully indoctrinate people with radically different beliefs to their own and not expect there to be backlash. But then I must ask, what the fuck else do you do? Many of the kinds of people we're talking about are absolutely unrepentant about how harmful their "beliefs and opinions" are to other people. I've seen LGBT friends of mine suffer from mindsets like these from their own fucking family, not even taking society at large into account. I mean obviously you can't go full gestapo and lock people up for their opinions and beliefs, that's just wrong. But so is persecuting people purely for the color of their skin, their gender, or sexual orientation. We are at an impasse where downtrodden people can't stand for the bigotry anymore, and honestly why should they? But we also have some rather dispicable people who refuse to learn that they are hurting and in some cases ruining lives with their bullshit. Something is gonna have to give at some point and frankly, I'll be damned if it's the people who suffer from the bigotry.

I don't see where the "isolate them" angle is coming from, his statement could just as easily be implying that having identified these people, we can reach out to them and attempt to change their views.

Boy I sure do love our new age of stopping wrongthink.

[QUOTE=dai;50869567]why are you treating it like we're just isolating and ignoring people physically, and even then why is removing toxic people from your life as an individual [i]bad[/i]? Radical assholes are probably already radical, removing yourself from the picture isn't changing their views at all because they probably didn't care for your counter arguments in the first place the whole point of the statement is trump basically outed assholes as assholes because his whole rhetoric has been an enabler for various behaviors. Think about how racist asshats came out of the woodwork so brazenly after the brexit vote came in, if Trump somehow gets the presidency we'll see the same thing, aimed heavily at latinos and asians Now because a lot of people have shown negative face already, we as a country have a much better picture of the problems we have. The big picture here is [i]we as a culture[/i] can identify our issues a bit more accurately from this knowledge, and can guide our gradual progress faster with the clarity.[/QUOTE] You're missing the point, I'm responding to J!NX who said: [QUOTE=J!NX;50867940]Yes we absolutely should socially isolate racists and homophobes[/QUOTE] Which is not at all the same thing as avoiding toxic people as an individual. Isolating means cutting them off from [I]all social interactions[/I] or, in practice, from as many as possible. This is the fucked up logic some radical progressives have when they try to ~expose~ people as bigots, by contacting their employers, family, friends and persuading them of cutting ties with said person. Also no, radical assholes are not born this way. They become like this because as they grow up, they are mainly exposed to the beliefs of their family and their friends, [I]a phenomenon that isolating bigot families can only accentuate.[/I] If regular people give in to the isolation mentality J!NX mentioned, it won't be long before their kids do the same and, given how kids work, start bullying Billy because "his parents are bigot assholes", which can't possibly lead to him becoming more progressive as he grows up. [QUOTE=Solo Wing;50871516]Not that I don't somewhat agree with you. You can't forcefully indoctrinate people with radically different beliefs to their own and not expect there to be backlash. But then I must ask, what the fuck else do you do? Many of the kinds of people we're talking about are absolutely unrepentant about how harmful their "beliefs and opinions" are to other people. I've seen LGBT friends of mine suffer from mindsets like these from their own fucking family, not even taking society at large into account. I mean obviously you can't go full gestapo and lock people up for their opinions and beliefs, that's just wrong. But so is persecuting people purely for the color of their skin, their gender, or sexual orientation. We are at an impasse where downtrodden people can't stand for the bigotry anymore, and honestly why should they? But we also have some rather dispicable people who refuse to learn that they are hurting and in some cases ruining lives with their bullshit. Something is gonna have to give at some point and frankly, I'll be damned if it's the people who suffer from the bigotry.[/QUOTE] People who are harassed by that kind of people absolutely should steer clear of them, yes, but that doesn't mean those bigots should be completely isolated from society. Actually, trying to keep them in interaction with a majority of tolerant people would be incredibly more efficient. People don't like not being normal, if they notice that they are the only ones holding these beliefs they will gradually correct them and try to align with the norm more. If you isolate them they will end up grouped up with people who hold the same fucked up beliefs and the opposite will happen. This leads to shit like radical Islamist terrorists, I think we have enough of that already.

[QUOTE=BrickInHead;50870104]hi i worked at a war crimes tribunal for the office of the prosecutor analyzing the use of language and why it's important in genocide (hint: it's BIG! BIG! BIG!) throughout history the word "cleanse" (along with variants of "mop" "wipe" etc) have been used in wartime as linguistic code for the systematic elimination of various ethnic, religious, and sociopolitical groups. its prominence in genocide [B]cannot [/B]be understated. cleanse is so prominent in genocide that laymen know its implications [I]across language barriers[/i]. from a legal perspective, [B]words[/B] like cleanse and many others (used in derogatory manners) are what provides a lens into the mindset of the individual, assisting in the establishment of the guilty mind, or specific intent to commit genocide, which is a requirement for conviction of said crime. so yes, while "only an idiot" may focus solely on the former and explicitly ignore the latter, the overall message of your post (which I interpret to be "word choice doesn't really matter") is something I would highly, highly disagree with. yes, it's probably clear to most that Will Smith doesn't intend to suggest that we should systematically round up trump supporters, however given our current political context - one filled to the brim with racial strife - that word choice on his part is quite unfortunate. in fact, that concept is applicable to much of the 2016 election cycle as well. what matters isn't Trump's platform - while it's certainly embarrassing, it's not inherently racist. Border protection works into the broader scheme of "bringing back the american worker" that Trump's populism is based off of. it's when he's saying shit like "they're not sending their best, they're sending rapists" - you can convey the same content in a way that does not indicate racist mind. simply state that "criminal elements frequently cross the border and harm the safety of america, thus we should amplify our border defense." no racial shit in that one, and in fact, it's a truthful statement. it's Trump's use of the word [I]they[/I] that makes all the difference in that policy point. While it may be subtle, it's fucking imperative to analyzing the impact he's having on our political process by fanning these really basic and racist fears. tldr: words matter a lot[/QUOTE] You are basically saying words carry the meaning of the people hearing them... thats the most retarded shit ever, and makes me seriously doubt the validity of the war crimes tribunal for the office of the prosecutor. The problem is that you use it as a lens to look into their minds while its more you comparing yourself to your target, and using YOUR biasses and flaws as a measuring stick... idc if you got paid to do it, thats pseudoscience to the 10th degree. You are the lens you look through at them, the flaws you see are your own reflection not matching up with theirs.

tbh _Axel DOES make a fair point, it would radicalize them further, so I mean, he isn't wrong :v: he got me there! [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] Though no, I wouldn't have agree'd that calling employers and such etc would have been reasonable

[QUOTE=J!NX;50867940]Yes we absolutely should socially isolate racists and homophobes I have no care for anyone who believes in treating other human beings as second class citizens and anyone who thinks they deserve to be taken seriously and not laughed in the face at can go away [editline]11th August 2016[/editline] and please, no one turn this into big idiotic a segregation thing, its not the fucking same thing[/QUOTE] "It's not segregation if the people being segregated have bad opinions!!!" Do you not realize how horrid of a mindset this is? By doing this, you will effectively make their cause stronger. By isolating them, you don't let them bring their opinions out into the blue to be challenged. You won't let them face opposition so they can get their opinions bashed and ridiculed. By isolating them, you paint them as innocent victims. You'll only make their cause stronger if you paint them as victims, intentionally or not. By painting them as victims, you'll make people feel bad for them; you'll make people join them. Not to mention how unethical it is to socially isolate someone.

[QUOTE=J!NX;50874357]tbh _Axel DOES make a fair point, it would radicalize them further, so I mean, he isn't wrong :v: he got me there! [editline]12th August 2016[/editline] Though no, I wouldn't have agree'd that calling employers and such etc would have been reasonable[/QUOTE] Well from seeing your post history I didn't think you would support that kind of actions honestly, I just wanted to point out they have the same motivation.

Honestly, this type of shit makes me fearful for the possibility of a civil insurrection in my life time. The fact that we have reached the point where people are openly suggesting cleansing other people for their political beliefs, and it doesn't matter what Will meant, the fact he's openly suggesting something which implies segregation, destroying a political group, or otherwise is terrifying. Also how can any of you suggest segregating or disassociating people from society, no matter their beliefs, is okay? I mean what the fuck, guys.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50874952]Honestly, this type of shit makes me fearful for the possibility of a civil insurrection in my life time. The fact that we have reached the point where people are openly suggesting cleansing other people for their political beliefs, and it doesn't matter what Will meant, the fact he's openly suggesting something which implies segregation, destroying a political group, or otherwise is terrifying. Also how can any of you suggest segregating or disassociating people from society, no matter their beliefs, is okay? I mean what the fuck, guys.[/QUOTE] It's pretty funny how the people here think "isolate people I don't like", yet that is the same mindset that the racists/homophobes they're against had in the 1960s.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50874952] Also how can any of you suggest segregating or disassociating people from society, no matter their beliefs, is okay? I mean what the fuck, guys.[/QUOTE] You [I]do[/I] know what racists do, right?

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50874952]Honestly, this type of shit makes me fearful for the possibility of a civil insurrection in my life time. The fact that we have reached the point where people are openly suggesting cleansing other people for their political beliefs, and it doesn't matter what Will meant, the fact he's openly suggesting something which implies segregation, destroying a political group, or otherwise is terrifying. [b]Also how can any of you suggest segregating or disassociating people from society, no matter their beliefs, is okay?[/b] I mean what the fuck, guys.[/QUOTE] Dead on, I hear some people are now suggesting we don't even let people with certain beliefs into the country, I mean how backwards can you get?

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50874996]You [I]do[/I] know what racists do, right?[/QUOTE] And those only comprise of a small minority of [I]Trump supporters[/I], ya know the thing Will Smith thinks we should "cleanse"

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50874996]You [I]do[/I] know what racists do, right?[/QUOTE] And that means they should be isolated from society? Dude, c'mon now.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50875050]And those only comprise of a small minority of [I]Trump supporters[/I], ya know the thing Will Smith thinks we should "cleanse"[/QUOTE] I think he means the "insanity", what people say. I don't think Will Smith wants to actually cleanse physical Trump supporting human beings from America.

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50874996]You [I]do[/I] know what racists do, right?[/QUOTE] They incite segregation and violence against the people they perceive as different and undesirable.

[QUOTE=jimhowl33t;50875165]They incite segregation and violence against the people they perceive as different and undesirable.[/QUOTE] Not all racists are violent.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;50875050]And those only comprise of a small minority of [I]Trump supporters[/I], ya know the thing Will Smith thinks we should "cleanse"[/QUOTE] Only a minority of trump supporters are racists, that's why neo-nazis and wannabe klansmen flock to him

[QUOTE=hoodoo456;50875260]Only a minority of trump supporters are racists, that's why neo-nazis and wannabe klansmen flock to him[/QUOTE] You know the KKK has its memberships in only the thousands, and Neo-Nazis are super disorganized or just part of the KKK. That and they typically "flock" to whatever conservative candidate they could vote for. They are a super minority.