[QUOTE=Excalibuurr;43454501]Like buying new TV, or lots of groceries, or furniture![/QUOTE]
Furniture and Electronics can be purchased online, and delivered to your household. Even local companies will generally deliver free of charge.
The current setup for giant grocery stores like Safeway, Walmart, and all that will eventually become obsolete within the next decade or two. Smaller stores such as 7-11's and otherwise will rise to prominence, and we'll see a resurgence of ma and pa type specialty stores, so purchasing just what you need for dinner could easily be done with a bicycle and a basket with a battery charged cooling-pad inside of it.
Just to give an example of this... Lets say I am making chicken soup. I need two tomatoes, one red pepper, one yellow pepper, one green pepper, and a small pack of chicken breast, and some rice. That chicken soup could feed my entire house(family of seven) for about three to four days, and it only requires me to ride my bike two miles up the road and visit the local butcher and farmer's market. I could probably actually take out the butcher as well, and just hit the farmer's market. All of this could fit into a bicycle basket, and therefore eliminate my need to use a car outside of winter time.
This also excludes the facts that I have roughly 0.5 acres of land. This half of an acre could be used for free-range meat rabbits, dove domestication, and chicken egg farming. All of which would allow me to cutout the need to visit the store so long as I keep active with doing farm chores every day.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;43454429]
Because petrol engines have amazing sound quality[/QUOTE]
You realize what you're hearing is inefficiency right?
It's a machine doing work producing something completely unrelated to its primary function.
What about that article about algae farming, and the much cheaper technology laboratories have developed?
Making algae fuel seems like the alternative to electric cars, something even I am hesitant about. It required 1 hour to produce the fuel, and as the technology improves it will only become cheaper.
Don't quote me on this [there was very little information to go on the subject], but I heard the algae fuel burned significantly cleaner?
[QUOTE=Antdawg;43454429]Because petrol engines have amazing sound quality, and it ultimately just finishes the driver experience. Also, electric only vehicles at the moment have shit range and recharging them is inconvenient.[/QUOTE]
Range on modern EV's is around 200 miles. If you have a Tesla you can charge it to half way with a Supercharger in under 30 minutes. Once the battery swappers are up you'll be able to swap out a whole battery in 90 seconds.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY[/media]
Tesla Stations are few and far between right now, but in a decade or two there will be one within less than 100 miles of everyone. Plus you get to charge at home so you get full juice each morning. So unless you drive 200 miles one way, you won't need to use public charging, but if you do, you can swap out the battery in a few seconds and be on your way.
It's [I]better[/I] than gas.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;43454637]I usually do light grocery shopping every few days after work but once I get a better pay I'll probably sign myself up on one of those weekly-grocery-bag-at-your-doorstep services.
A [I]car-free[/I] city would be mighty awesome in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Gee, that sounds really efficient! I wonder how they do it?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43455206]You realize what you're hearing is inefficiency right?
It's a machine doing work producing something completely unrelated to its primary function.[/QUOTE]
Inefficiency in a combustion engine is energy being lost as heat (which is why theoretical six-stroke engines are far more efficient than four-strokes, as their second power strokes attempt to re-convert that heat back into rotational power). I'm pretty sure that the combustion of an air-petrol mixture will always make some kind of bang, completely unrelated to efficiency of the engine.
That's funny actually. Engines with less restrictive exhaust systems (such as high flow catalytic converters and mufflers that aren't very muffling) can actually be marginally more efficient than engines with lower noise pollution, because the engine can breath better.
[QUOTE=Incoming.;43455345]What about that article about algae farming, and the much cheaper technology laboratories have developed?
Making algae fuel seems like the alternative to electric cars, something even I am hesitant about. It required 1 hour to produce the fuel, and as the technology improves it will only become cheaper.
Don't quote me on this [there was very little information to go on the subject], but I heard the algae fuel burned significantly cleaner?[/QUOTE]
Algae fuel is carbon neutral. Which is great.
I know that distances in the US are a lot bigger and that public transport isn't that great, but I think it is a bit unfortunate that so much effort is put on making cars better instead of trying to remove the need for them.
But more fuel-efficient and environment friendly cars are of course a good thing.
I don't like public transportation because I like to be in control of where I want to go, how I want to get there, and the atmosphere in which I sit while I get there (climate control/music)
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43454119]But I don't want an electric car.[/QUOTE]
I highly doubt gas cars will go away completely, my best guess is that the majority of people, people who don't know too much about automobiles and probably couldn't care less, will switch to electric, while enthusiasts will drive with gas.
[QUOTE=Kalleo;43455404]I know that distances in the US are a lot bigger and that public transport isn't that great, but I think it is a bit unfortunate that so much effort is put on making cars better instead of trying to remove the need for them.
But more fuel-efficient and environment friendly cars are of course a good thing.[/QUOTE]
A problem is urban sprawl. Before we figured out how to effectively build upwards, we would just expand outwards with low-density developments. So people on the outer edges would more than likely drive a car to their workplace in the CBD rather than take twice as long with a public transport network.
We can't replace old cities so easily, but what we can do is build up - and down, with compact high density developments in new cities. Also create an underground transportation network, just so that the distance between residential and business districts is made as short as possible. People can walk or ride a bike on the surface, and catch trains underground if they are in a rush. I believe there is a city in the Middle East that is being developed just as I've explained.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;43454665]I should ask the Euro FPers, how important is it for you guys to be able to drive once you turn 18? Do you guys often use public trans as opposed to getting your own vehicle?
Because I know for a fact that in the US almost everybody wants to get their own car and it's pretty much a sign of independence and freedom for teens that are growing up here in the US.
Rate Agree if getting a car at 18 is pretty important
Disagree if it isn't really that vital to own a car or be able to drive one at 18[/QUOTE]
In the UK, I'd it's say fairly important for most people. In general (there are a few cities and towns this does not apply too) Public transport here is choc full of pricks, late, over crowded, severely limited (routes and frequency, hell round here they stop dead at 7pm) and depending on where you live it can be god damn expensive. In London public transport is a necessity but outside of the capital the car reign's supreme. The safety factor is a massive turn of for bikes on our small winding roads and walking to work depends on the distance to said job and the weather (a fair number of our roads were not built for bikes or predestrians at all).
Employers here also like seeing a full UK drivers license written on a CV and they love it if you have your own car to boot, it means you are accountable for your punctuality not anyone else (within reason obviously, traffic, break downs so on so forth).
The reason many youth are turning to public transport here is because they are being forced of the road thanks to astronomical insurance premiums and the lack of employment in order to sustain a vehicle. Not because they like standing around some bus shelter at 7 in the morning in the rain with the local pissheads and junkies on their way into town to collect their dole money and top up their blood alcohol levels. Tho admit-ably that last sentence is just my experience of the local buses where i live, iv'e had my car for 7 years and i haven't once used the bus since (outside of london).
[QUOTE=Antdawg;43455373]Inefficiency in a combustion engine is energy being lost as heat (which is why theoretical six-stroke engines are far more efficient than four-strokes, as their second power strokes attempt to re-convert that heat back into rotational power). I'm pretty sure that the combustion of an air-petrol mixture will always make some kind of bang, completely unrelated to efficiency of the engine.
That's funny actually. Engines with less restrictive exhaust systems (such as high flow catalytic converters and mufflers that aren't very muffling) can actually be marginally more efficient than engines with lower noise pollution, because the engine can breath better.[/QUOTE]
There's always going to be sound but sound is just motion, and motion that goes toward making the engine/exhaust/etc vibrate instead of making the car move is wasted energy. Obviously unavoidable when you're trying to capture explosions and direct them toward making wheels spin, but if you used magic to make a 100% efficient combustion engine there wouldn't be any sound at all because all the energy would be doing useful work instead.
Cities are rubbish anyway. I'll probably have to move down to that London ([I]urgh[/I]) for a job but as soon as telecommuting becomes viable I'm packing up and heading back to my hometown.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43455853]There's always going to be sound but sound is just motion, and motion that goes toward making the engine/exhaust/etc vibrate instead of making the car move is wasted energy. Obviously unavoidable when you're trying to capture explosions and direct them toward making wheels spin, but if you used magic to make a 100% efficient combustion engine there wouldn't be any sound at all because all the energy would be doing useful work instead.[/QUOTE]
I don't even know why you bought up sound as an inefficiency anyways. Yes, it is a (tiny) inefficiency but there is very little that can be done to reduce it, and heat loss is a much larger inefficiency that is actually addressable. I can't wait to see what they will have done with engines in a decade or so, I've already mentioned six-stroke designs but we might even see camless valvetrains which can further increase efficiency across the entire engine speed range.
Oh yeah, engine and exhaust vibrations are more attributable to the engine configuration than they are to engine sound. Configurations such as inline 3s, high displacement inline 4s, inline 5s, v4s, v6s, v10s etc all have some degree of unbalance (producing vibration). Small displacement inline 4s and narrow angle (<15 degrees) / 60 degree v6s can possible have less unbalance than the other configurations mentioned, yet they aren't as balanced as configurations such as inline 6s (most compact perfectly balanced configuration) some configurations of v8s (I believe crossplane v8s with counterweights have good balance, but I may be wrong) and v12s. Just for clarification, the balance of all those configurations is in reference to four-stroke engines.
But wouldn't a more balanced engine perform more efficiently, making me technically be correct
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43457729]But wouldn't a more balanced engine perform more efficiently, making me technically be correct[/QUOTE]
If there was a difference it would be negligible. As I've said, most of the wasted energy from a combustion engine is in the form of heat, not in sound or vibrations.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43455206]You realize what you're hearing is inefficiency right?
It's a machine doing work producing something completely unrelated to its primary function.[/QUOTE]
And yet, it's the one of the main selling points of new Jaguars.
With good reason.
[video=youtube;7MZ4Nzy80CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZ4Nzy80CE[/video]
I don't want a world where Jaguars don't make this glorious sound, instead being forced to hear shitty tyre roar and wind noise.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;43454691]I'm pretty sure that's just an acquired taste, that will be deemed irrelevant and dropped like an old fad outside of niche circles once electric cars stars gaining serious traction.[/QUOTE]
That sounds fucking awful. No thanks
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;43454291]Uhm okay, why not?[/QUOTE]
Less involving experience, worse performance. Electric cars are fuckheavy and even though the Model S has an amazing 0-60 time, it really sucks at anything past 100 mph, and forget cornering too.
Changing gears manually, hearing the engine rev, having a car with almost no computers getting between you and the driving. That's something many, many enthusiasts desire.
Noble, the british car manufacturer, understands this. "At the moment, we're very happy with our ethos of being an analogue car. We think there's room for us and that more and more people are going to copy us. All this electronic wizardry is taking something away from the driver, something that can never be replaced."
Of course, for someone who thinks of cars as nothing but a way to get from A to B, this is irrelevant.
But not everyone is that way.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;43453996]It's bad enough glorious standard transmission vehicles will be extinct by the end of the century, don't take the fun of driving any kind of vehicle from the world, too :([/QUOTE]
...The only country where Automatic Transmission is the majority is the USA. Manual is not going away any time soon.
I wonder what will happen to the world's road networks when automobiles are eventually obsolete/phased out in the future.
They would probably tear them down. No point in maintaining a large sidewalk or unused road.
[QUOTE=JakeIsWin;43458526]I wonder what will happen to the world's road networks when automobiles are eventually obsolete/phased out in the future.[/QUOTE]
Will that ever happen, I wonder? Unless there's a pod system or something that takes each person somewhere different, I can't see any form of public transportation ever being as convenient as a car due to the very implications of "public transport".
Not to mention, the world of motorsports isn't going to disappear.
[QUOTE=J!NX;43453925]fuck you I want my hovercars
its kinda... Funny actually
the automobile was the godsend of travel, it was the sign of taste and status to some/many people. It would allow families to travel wherever they wanted at such an ease that people literally couldn't believe it.
now it shows signs of being outdated tech compared to personal pods / alternative vehicles.
makes you think... what's after that?[/QUOTE]
The car isn't outdated at all. The problem is that there's just far too many of them for cities to handle. Hence massively pushing more money back into public transit in order to make it as, if not more comfortable, as personal vehicles inside of cities.
The thing is, public transit will rarely replace commutes. But instead of driving right up to your workplace, you'll usually have to stop at the city outskirts where largescale parking will be present and take PTN from there.
[QUOTE=JakeIsWin;43458526]I wonder what will happen to the world's road networks when automobiles are eventually obsolete/phased out in the future.[/QUOTE]
Even to low level aerial traffic (aka a few meters above ground) motorways are a huge boon as you eliminate most heigh differences. So I can see stuff like highways being normally maintained.
[QUOTE=lazyguy;43455929]Cities are rubbish anyway. I'll probably have to move down to that London ([I]urgh[/I]) for a job but as soon as telecommuting becomes viable I'm packing up and heading back to my hometown.[/QUOTE]
Difference of perspective. I for instance much prefer living in cities than in the big nowhere.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;43456016]Yes, it is a (tiny) inefficiency but there is very little that can be done to reduce it, [/QUOTE]
There is, actually. Not using combustion engines in the first place.
[editline]8th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=MR2;43458004]That's something many, many enthusiasts desire. [/QUOTE]
It'll be just that; an enthusiast thing. The car users who give a sod about how their engine sounds are in minority, and their number will likely decrease by each generation (though never quite disappearing).
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;43455502]I highly doubt gas cars will go away completely, my best guess is that the majority of people, people who don't know too much about automobiles and probably couldn't care less, will switch to electric, while enthusiasts will drive with gas.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this.
I'm reading this thread and I fucking hate the "gas" word because I've got no clue whether you're talking about gasoline or natural gas.
[QUOTE=maxumym;43461337]I'm reading this thread and I fucking hate the "gas" word because I've got no clue whether you're talking about gasoline or natural gas.[/QUOTE]
Over here, Natural Gas is referred to by name, and the shit that goes in cars most commonly is Gasoline.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;43454011]Nobody is taking away your car. Maybe you'll be driving electric eventually but I doubt your car is gonna go.[/QUOTE]
yeah just like in the future we'll all eat meat-shaped bits made out of a synthetic paste
wait
[QUOTE=maxumym;43461337]I'm reading this thread and I fucking hate the "gas" word because I've got no clue whether you're talking about gasoline or natural gas.[/QUOTE]
Gasoline
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;43461415]Over here, Natural Gas is referred to by name, and the shit that goes in cars most commonly is Gasoline.[/QUOTE]
I know, but recently natural gas cars have been on the rise, haven't they?
[QUOTE=maxumym;43461524]I know, but recently natural gas cars have been on the rise, haven't they?[/QUOTE]
I know that nat gas conversion systems exist and aren't [I]too[/I] pricy, but I haven't seen a single nat gas capable fueling station anywhere in my life's travels.
Regardless, they'd count for less than 1% of total operational cars on the road right now.
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