[QUOTE=Mingebox;43473483]Or just make your own engine sounds as you drive![/QUOTE]
I always take the racing corner around turns and fast (within the lines and respecting the safety of those around me, of course). I like to pretend I drive a sports car and not a 1.4 tonne FWD family sedan. Thank god it at least has the 3.5L V6 sound quality.
Thinking of doing like what my brother did with his 4.0L I6 sedan and mounting the muffler backwards - so it doesn't even do any muffling at all haha.
[quote=mingebox]Or just make your own engine sounds as you drive![/quote]
This is always more fun then it should be.
But seriously, think about it, have like a few speakers hidden, and then you can choose the engine sound.
American v8 muscle?
Japanese tuner with turbo?
Maybe even one of those chopper-motorcycle sounds for your car, whatever.
Also, Antdawg, you should just use some scaffolding as exhaust.
Mate of mine did that, the sound was incredible.
Together with the high-pitched *MEEP* of the horn that was one funny car.
[editline]9th January 2014[/editline]
Not incredible in a good way by the way, mainly just really loud.
I think this is a great idea. Being from the midwest United States we are deeply immersed in car culture, or since I'm in central indiana, truck culture, and I'm appalled at how much I have to drive a day just to go to school, and buy groceries with there being no option for me to ride a bicycle as an alternative due to road layouts and lack of dedicated bike lanes or public transit. There needs to be a push to make cities walkable again. My city was booming at the turn of the last century, and in photos of the downtown you see trolly lanes with half a dozen trolly cars at any given time, and even long distance trollies that connected the more rural areas of the city. It looked glorious, and now we've replaced those trolly lanes with more lanes for personal vehicles and the city, because of cars, is expanding out away from the historic downtown and we have an ever-expanding ring of strip malls and box stores on the cities peripheral. I hope to be part of the shift in lifestyle in my town, as the downtown gets redeveloped and walk-ability comes back.
[QUOTE=MyAlt91;43473683]This is always more fun then it should be.
But seriously, think about it, have like a few speakers hidden, and then you can choose the engine sound.
American v8 muscle?
Japanese tuner with turbo?
Maybe even one of those chopper-motorcycle sounds for your car, whatever.
Also, Antdawg, you should just use some scaffolding as exhaust.
Mate of mine did that, the sound was incredible.
Together with the high-pitched *MEEP* of the horn that was one funny car.
[editline]9th January 2014[/editline]
Not incredible in a good way by the way, mainly just really loud.[/QUOTE]
The thing is, one thing is owning a car with an actual engine that makes music and another thing is a speaker sounding like the actual car making music. It's been done before where you put a gadget into your 12v socket and it makes engine sounds compared to revs, somehow.
I'd rather have electric cars make the woosh sound they already do or something else generated. It seems pointless and silly to replicate a combustion engine car using speakers.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;43471919]I don't think so either, but why not?[/QUOTE]
Because electric cars are far less engaging than a combustion engine with a manual or even automatic. In an electric, there's no response from the car itself. All it does is drive. The Tesla Model S might be quick as hell but it's [i]still[/i] a lot less fun compared to a normal engine and it still only goes a-b without any real input from driver, other than steering and throttle. In a real car, even in an automatic, you still get to hear the engine changing gears and you can even change it manually. I think some people here wondering what all the fuss about phasing out petrol cars have never actually driven one. There is an amazing difference between the two and petrol cars won't die.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;43454523]my boss actually uses rental cars to move around groceries, he says it's way cheaper. personally i can feed myself just walking to the store and buying groceries and then walking them home. it's not really that hard to customize a bike to move around grocies (i've seen it done) or create other human powered vehicles to move them around.
i guess the decline of cars also might mark the decline of consumerism.[/QUOTE]
lmao this is the future where convenience is key fuck your effort
[QUOTE=Antdawg;43473191]I think pure electrics don't use conventional gearboxes (do they even use gearboxes at all?) Hybrids use gearboxes because the electric motor isn't always running, and the engine still needs to deliver power to the wheels in some way.[/QUOTE]
Electrics don't really need a transmission, no. Transmissions are used to gear-down the motor's RPM to increase torque, which traditional combustion engines lack at lower speeds, where-as an electric motor has pretty much all of its torque at 0 RPM.
Fun fact: Steam-powered cars didn't need transmissions, either.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;43456016]I don't even know why you bought up sound as an inefficiency anyways. Yes, it is a (tiny) inefficiency but there is very little that can be done to reduce it, and heat loss is a much larger inefficiency that is actually addressable. I can't wait to see what they will have done with engines in a decade or so, I've already mentioned six-stroke designs but we might even see camless valvetrains which can further increase efficiency across the entire engine speed range.
Oh yeah, engine and exhaust vibrations are more attributable to the engine configuration than they are to engine sound. Configurations such as inline 3s, high displacement inline 4s, inline 5s, v4s, v6s, v10s etc all have some degree of unbalance (producing vibration). Small displacement inline 4s and narrow angle (<15 degrees) / 60 degree v6s can possible have less unbalance than the other configurations mentioned, yet they aren't as balanced as configurations such as inline 6s (most compact perfectly balanced configuration) some configurations of v8s (I believe crossplane v8s with counterweights have good balance, but I may be wrong) and v12s. Just for clarification, the balance of all those configurations is in reference to four-stroke engines.[/QUOTE]
All of it rendered irrelevant by electric motors being better in every conceivable way.
You can tool around with the ICE all you want, it is still going to be vastly inferior.
[QUOTE=Jackpody;43476571] I think some people here wondering what all the fuss about phasing out petrol cars have never actually driven one. There is an amazing difference between the two and petrol cars won't die.[/QUOTE]Or maybe it's most people care more about getting from point A to point B than if their car is loud enough?
[QUOTE=Mingebox;43476880]Or maybe it's most people care more about getting from point A to point B than if their car is loud enough?[/QUOTE]
An engine sound is part of the experience. You press the throttle in an electric car and you go faster. There are no rewarding shifts, no engine noise, only some slight tire noise. That's all. It's incredibly boring compared to a petrol car. In a petrol car (especially with a manual transmission), you are a way more engaged driver. You decide when you want to change, if you have the engine in its powerband, etc. And you actually get a rewarding engine note while doing the above. It's more fun.
Electric cars will be good for people who don't care for cars and just want to get from point a to point b, however people who actually care for driver experience (enthusiasts I guess) will most likely stay with petrol cars for now. It's just a lot more rewarding.
[QUOTE=Jackpody;43477007]
Electric cars will be good for people who don't care for cars and just want to get from point a to point b, [/QUOTE]
I think we're talking about at least 3/4 of the market here. I believe eventually owning a petrol car will be like owning a vintage gun of a less common caliber.
By the way, it'll be interesting to see how/what oil companies will do.
[QUOTE=Jackpody;43476571]Because electric cars are far less engaging than a combustion engine with a manual or even automatic. In an electric, there's no response from the car itself. All it does is drive. The Tesla Model S might be quick as hell but it's [i]still[/i] a lot less fun compared to a normal engine and it still only goes a-b without any real input from driver, other than steering and throttle. In a real car, even in an automatic, you still get to hear the engine changing gears and you can even change it manually. I think some people here wondering what all the fuss about phasing out petrol cars have never actually driven one. There is an amazing difference between the two and petrol cars won't die.[/QUOTE]
You really think people will forever choose the "fun" in driving over fuel effeciency, enviromental-friendly and cheaper alternatives? These people are a minority and will grow smaller.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;43477057]I think we're talking about at least 3/4 of the market here. I believe eventually owning a petrol car will be like owning a vintage gun of a less common caliber.
By the way, it'll be interesting to see how/what oil companies will do.[/QUOTE]
This actually raises an interesting point, do people care what they drive? From my perspective, most people I know want a car where you are driving a piece of machinery, not a piece of transportation. I know I care.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;43477367]You really think people will forever choose the "fun" in driving over fuel effeciency, enviromental-friendly and cheaper alternative?[/QUOTE]
I think a good amount of people will, even if it's not a majority. You don't see the fun in driving so I'm not sure how I can properly debate this. It has always been a fun experience to drive a vehicle ever since it was first created in 1886, especially back in those days. People have been striving to always improve it and I think it'd be sad to see people completely rule out an engaging car compared to fuel efficiency, environment and cheaper built cars. If an electric car can actually be as much fun and as engaging as a petrol car, I'd gladly buy one as a daily driver but keep my petrol car as a weekend cruiser.
Saying that people who drive petrol cars don't get some sort of fun out of doing it is wrong, at least from my observations. Everyone I know loves it and wouldn't trade it with a current gen electric vehicle.
[QUOTE=Jackpody;43477372]I think a good amount of people will, even if it's not a majority. You don't see the fun in driving so I'm not sure how I can properly debate this. It has always been a fun experience to drive a vehicle ever since it was first created in 1886. People have been striving to always improve it and I think it'd be sad to see people completely rule out an engaging car compared to fuel efficiency, environment and cheaper built cars. If an electric car can actually be as much fun and as engaging as a petrol car, I'd gladly buy one as a daily driver but keep my petrol car as a weekend cruiser.[/QUOTE]
No, I enjoy driving, I understand that there are people that enjoy the sounds of the engine and the feel of shifting the gear and the smell of petrol or whatever, I can understand why you would enjoy that - Just because you think it's fun doesn't mean a good amount of people will. I can't say how many people prefer what because I don't have any statistics either but neither do you. What I can say though is that even if not all people would sacrifice fun for all the points I made, everybody mustn't necessarily agree with what you find enjoying about driving.
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;43455241]Just put a speaker going vroom vroom on it, everyone happy.[/QUOTE]
You joke about this, but actually one problem is that EVs are quiet causing a safety concern, since one sense you use while driving is one's hearing, so this may actually be a necessity.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;43477367]You really think people will forever choose the "fun" in driving over fuel effeciency, enviromental-friendly and cheaper alternatives? These people are a minority and will grow smaller.[/QUOTE]
I mentioned earlier that algae farming is steadily becoming a more viable option and I don't see any reasons that beg to differ. The oil is cleaner, it's cheaper, the algae once grown can be turned into oil in an hour, and avoids the added stress on electrical systems. Theres been a real concern over the demand on power plants and higher energy prices.
There was also talk of the need for Coal plants being built since the plants are cheaper to engineer, and cheaper to produce the electricity, which seems counter intuitive.
Why change an entire infrastructure when you can simply improve the methods in which we utilize our existing one?
[QUOTE=Incoming.;43478711]I mentioned earlier that algae farming is steadily becoming a more viable option and I don't see any reasons that beg to differ. The oil is cleaner, it's cheaper, the algae once grown can be turned into oil in an hour, and avoids the added stress on electrical systems. Theres been a real concern over the demand on power plants and higher energy prices.
There was also talk of the need for Coal plants being built since the plants are cheaper to engineer, and cheaper to produce the electricity, which seems counter intuitive.
Why change an entire infrastructure when you can simply improve the methods in which we utilize our existing one?[/QUOTE]
I really like algae farming for fuel and plastic production, I think it'll be a good way to get off of the need to drill. However I still think electric vehicles have a place in the future [I]along side[/I] side petrol/LNG/Hydrogen vehicles because if we were to replace our entire current oil usage with algae farms, I'd take a bet that it would require an extreme amount of land that could be better used for farming. Luckily, algae is less restricted to climates so maybe you could get away with growing it in the desert or other infertile areas.
Nuclear, localized solar, wind, tidal for the energy grid.
Algae farms for petroleum products.
[B]Carbon emission: 0. [/B]
(none from nuclear, solar, wind, and tidal, and Algae farming for petroleum is carbon neutral. If you can extract the carbon from the algae you could even use it for sequestration or carbon based products like industrial diamond and composites.) (I have no idea if any of this is true or accurate though, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
What's not to love?
[editline]9th January 2014[/editline]
Oh I almost forgot to mention that something needs to be done about Lithium batteries because if we do make a switch to mostly EV's then we'll just be dependent on that like we are with oil now. Little food for thought for the future.
[QUOTE=Incoming.;43478711]I mentioned earlier that algae farming is steadily becoming a more viable option and I don't see any reasons that beg to differ. The oil is cleaner, it's cheaper, the algae once grown can be turned into oil in an hour, and avoids the added stress on electrical systems. Theres been a real concern over the demand on power plants and higher energy prices.
There was also talk of the need for Coal plants being built since the plants are cheaper to engineer, and cheaper to produce the electricity, which seems counter intuitive.
Why change an entire infrastructure when you can simply improve the methods in which we utilize our existing one?[/QUOTE]
I must have missed that, but yeah I didn't know about this, it sounds great and this is perhaps what we should be pushing for, I don't have anything against this.
[QUOTE=OvB;43478911]
[B]Carbon emission: 0. [/B][/QUOTE]
Did I miss something, or does petroleum produced with algae somehow not release CO2 and other stuff when burned as fuel?
Better batteries are coming btw, based on carbon nanotube tech.
[QUOTE=Im Crimson;43479340]Did I miss something, or does petroleum produced with algae somehow not release CO2 and other stuff when burned as fuel?
Better batteries are coming btw, based on carbon nanotube tech.[/QUOTE]
When you grow algae, you're taking carbon out of the atmosphere to grow the algae, and then emitting that same carbon back into the atmosphere when its combusted as fuel. It's a cycle. As long as you don't lower production(thus not taking up as much carbon as normal), it's a neutral source.
When you burn fossil fuels, you're pulling up ancient carbon and adding it to the carbon cycle.
[editline]9th January 2014[/editline]
I guess I shouldn't have said emission. It still emits carbon but it's not adding any to the cycle. It can even remove carbon in certain situations.
[QUOTE=MrJazzy;43477464]No, I enjoy driving, I understand that there are people that enjoy the sounds of the engine and the feel of shifting the gear and the smell of petrol or whatever, I can understand why you would enjoy that - Just because you think it's fun doesn't mean a good amount of people will.[/QUOTE]
You don't think a "good amount" of car enthusiasts exists? Even though the market for sports cars is enormous? (And "sports cars" includes stuff like the GT86/FR-S). Were it not, companies whose single target consumers are enthusiasts, like, say, Lotus, Noble, etc. would not be able to thrive. TVR doesn't exactly "thrive" but that's because the people running it are idiots. There's a LOT of demand for their cars outside the [I]only[/I] country they're sold in, the UK, but they're not exactly cheap, let alone if you want to import one to the US, modify it to fit regulations, and freaking convert it to left hand drive. All of this boosts the cost to double or more. But some people actually do all of that, instead of just buying some common sporty BMW or something.
All of this just to say that yes, a market for people such people does exist and it's bigger than you imagine.
[editline]10th January 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=OvB;43478911]I really like algae farming for fuel and plastic production, I think it'll be a good way to get off of the need to drill. However I still think electric vehicles have a place in the future [I]along side[/I] side petrol/LNG/Hydrogen vehicles because if we were to replace our entire current oil usage with algae farms, I'd take a bet that it would require an extreme amount of land that could be better used for farming. Luckily, algae is less restricted to climates so maybe you could get away with growing it in the desert or other infertile areas.
Nuclear, localized solar, wind, tidal for the energy grid.
Algae farms for petroleum products.
[B]Carbon emission: 0. [/B]
(none from nuclear, solar, wind, and tidal, and Algae farming for petroleum is carbon neutral. If you can extract the carbon from the algae you could even use it for sequestration or carbon based products like industrial diamond and composites.) (I have no idea if any of this is true or accurate though, please correct me if I'm wrong.)
What's not to love?[/QUOTE]
If that's the future, it's pretty bright for fans of all types of cars.
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